Another year but some old problems remain

[ant555]

Im not going to single out any players in particular and start a witch hunt but the same problems we have had for 5 or 6 years remain.

1. Poor skill level. Across the board our skills are simply not good enough.
2. We seem to have no idea on how to pass the footy. We continually kick the high and not to the advantage of our own players.
3.Our midfield doesnt know how to block or clear a path at clearances.
4. We continually have two or 3 players running to the same spot.
5. Despite having numerous drills at training that focus at running the ball down the lines we still stand around in groups on match day and handball to stationary targets.
6. We dont have enough hard runners in the midfield who also have some skill and class.
7. A lot of the time we are happy to play the "me" game . At stages we simply dont work hard enough. Players make short leads an when someone covers it they dont lead again as the feel they have done enough.
8. We zone off and let players get a 3 meter break on us too easily.
9. We refuse to shepphard. Rather than giving a handball and then blocking to get a player in the clear we try and position ourselves for another cheap stat.
10. We never make any serious attemps to guard the mark.
11. We seem to lack confiedence in attacking ball carriers. More often than not we simply try and coral players rather than pressuring them.

I know that this will look like just another the sky is falling thread but the fact is we will only ever develop into a side that can just make the 8 and have not much more impact that that unles we can start to make serious inroads into some of the above issues.

 

[BomberAce7]

Im not going to single out any players in particular and start a witch hunt but the same problems we have had for 5 or 6 years remain.

1. Poor skill level. Across the board our skills are simply not good enough.
2. We seem to have no idea on how to pass the footy. We continually kick the high and not to the advantage of our own players.
3.Our midfield doesnt know how to block or clear a path at clearances.
4. We continually have two or 3 players running to the same spot.
5. Despite having numerous drills at training that focus at running the ball down the lines we still stand around in groups on match day and handball to stationary targets.
6. We dont have enough hard runners in the midfield who also have some skill and class.
7. A lot of the time we are happy to play the "me" game . At stages we simply dont work hard enough. Players make short leads an when someone covers it they dont lead again as the feel they have done enough.
8. We zone off and let players get a 3 meter break on us too easily.
9. We refuse to shepphard. Rather than giving a handball and then blocking to get a player in the clear we try and position ourselves for another cheap stat.
10. We never make any serious attemps to guard the mark.
11. We seem to lack confiedence in attacking ball carriers. More often than not we simply try and coral players rather than pressuring them.

I know that this will look like just another the sky is falling thread but the fact is we will only ever develop into a side that can just make the 8 and have not much more impact that that unles we can start to make serious inroads into some of the above issues.

Yep your right! We have still got the same problems! So Who's to blame ya reckon? Their's only 1 person ya can blame, "THE COACH"!!!

 

[ant555]

Yep your right! We have still got the same problems! So Who's to blame ya reckon? Their's only 1 person ya can blame, "THE COACH"!!!

Well it is the above questions i would be asking the man in charge if i was deciding his future. The fact that these problems have been around for 5 or 6 seasons is the most worrying aspect.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

A lot of our problems can be solved with the addition of a hard running midfielder with a bit of class.

You either trade for one or try and draft one. We've done neither (except for the last draft).

 

[ant555]

A lot of our problems can be solved with the addition of a hard running midfielder with a bit of class.

You either trade for one or try and draft one. We've done neither (except for the last draft).

It is getting rather hard to trade for one. It is not like quality midfielders have been traded in big volumes over the last 5 years.

 

[Mighty Reds]

At the moment Jay Nash seems to have the best skills.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

It is getting rather hard to trade for one. It is not like quality midfielders have been traded in big volumes over the last 5 years.

Yep, but teams aren't willing to part with quality to get quality.

No one has the courage.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Could Nash develop into a quality midfielder? He played well last night. His kicking and decision making are top class although he may lack a bit of pace.

 

[DaSawx]

Could Nash develop into a quality midfielder? He played well last night. His kicking and decision making are top class although he may lack a bit of pace.

He's well on his way. Don't know if he'll be a star but he can be more than handy rotating through

 

[carnthedons07premiers]

if dalsanto hasnt signed yet we should be throwing everything at the saints for him.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

if dalsanto hasnt signed yet we should be throwing everything at the saints for him.

First round pick + Mcphee?

Would the Saints do that?

 

[retroparty]

First round pick + Mcphee?

Would the Saints do that?

Maybe but I reckon we need that first round pick.

 

[Daytripper]

First round pick + Mcphee?

Would the Saints do that?

1. St Kilda already have two of the exact type of players in the Fishers that play McPhee's role.
2. Dalsanto is about the only creative midfielder that they have other than Harvey who is about to retire. Hayes, Ball and Thompson are all inside players whilst Montagna is a running Stanton type. They would not be parting with him without a hefty price I would think.
3. McPhee is one of the few quality 23-24yo we have (especially in defence). and he will be invaluable in a few years once Mal and Fletcher go. We'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I'd have no issue with trading that 1st round pick though.

 

[Boris_Bewick]

First round pick + Mcphee?

Would the Saints do that?

I wouldn't like it.

Maybe the first pick for him and some other deal but I wouldn't be happy with losing McPhee

 

[retroparty]

How about trying to get a player like byron Schammer. I reckon he would do well at essendon.

 

[SydneyDon]

It's been proven time and again how important mental attitude is to winning games. With the way equalization and salary cap exist there should not be huge differences between the playing talent accross the 16 teams. There will always be upsets when a lowly ranked side is somehow motivated to win. Team spirit and genuine toughness at the footy are the most desired traits in a team that can cover for lack of certain skills.

I always look at smothers as a key indicator as to how desperate a player/team really is. It is easy to make half hearted attempts to smother the ball off the boot and not really get noticed if unsuccessful. Then there are the truly desperate guys who will THROW themselves onto a boot. Yes it is only one minor part of the game but to me it is the litmus test, indicating the true desperation of a team.

It is the job of the coach and team leaders to inspire the team to these heights. Look back at our 2000 team and you don't see the most skillful and paciest team on the park. You see the team with the most desperate, ball aggressive and team oriented in the comp. Geelong have it this year IMO.

 

[DaSawx]

Dal Santo is close with the Saints apparently, at least that's what yesterday's paper says

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Well it is the above questions i would be asking the man in charge if i was deciding his future. The fact that these problems have been around for 5 or 6 seasons is the most worrying aspect.

Which is why the coach is most likely on the way out.

The other thing that has concerned me this year - is how many games to senior (going nowhere) type players he has given. We need to be developing our kids - throw em to the wolves (not en mass) but at least one a week - give em a taste. I know injuries play their part, but we seem so slow in developing our players.

 

[Daytripper]

but we seem so slow in developing our players.

Compared to who ?
Carlton and Richmond.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Compared to who ?
Carlton and Richmond.

Why is it that North after having a season ending knee injury to their best forward are now looking at top 4, yet our mob had last year?

Why, because their players were given a go and developed - Sheedy has no faith in youngsters - that no one can argue - by him constantly picking older players (such as Heff and Bolton) when he has crunch games.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Why is it that North after having a season ending knee injury to their best forward are now looking at top 4, yet our mob had last year?

Why, because their players were given a go and developed - Sheedy has no faith in youngsters - that no one can argue - by him constantly picking older players (such as Heff and Bolton) when he has crunch games.

Completely untrue.

North have a completely different make up to us. They have a good midfield and are a good running side while we have more KPP's.

Having Thompson out has had no effect. You could even argue that it's made them a better team as they are less focused on the one guy.

Todays footy requires run and a lot of it and we are two players short in that area.

 

[ant555]

Why is it that North after having a season ending knee injury to their best forward are now looking at top 4, yet our mob had last year?

Why, because their players were given a go and developed - Sheedy has no faith in youngsters - that no one can argue - by him constantly picking older players (such as Heff and Bolton) when he has crunch games.

It is not all fisrt year players that are getting North results for them. I hate these sort of comments because they are simply wrong. Yes they have a couple of first year players coming in and doing good things each week but they have been rotating them in and out of the side as well. The players who are giving North a real lift are the players who have been around for 2 to 4 years. Guys like Firrito ,McIntosh ,Smith ,Swallow etc .
It is not like North have been playing all of their first year players and getting results from them. A lot of the guys that are really firing for North played little if any senior footy in their first two years.

I dont have a problem with how Sheedy has developed players over the years. He plays kids . He has played four of our draft picks from last season. Nearly everyone on our list has played senior footy. In fact if you look at it outside the rookies only Gumby, Neagle and Riemers havnt had a senior game and there is a reasonable possibility that Gumby and kyle could play before the end of the year.
On top of all of this please do tell me where Sheedy has ever dropped a young player for an older player if the young players had been performing ? He doesnt. Davey played a heap in a row. Monfries got plenty in a row. Bradley got heaps of footy. Ryder has played all year. Stanton was given a consistant run. Of the young kids this year Jetta got injured but his form dropped off so he was replaced in the side. Houli got a few games in a row until his form waned slightly and he had a minor injury so he was replaced. He is currently giving Hislop a few games and Nash is also building up games. He always gave Winderlich games when he could.

Now i know that he does like to go back to favourites but this year it has been pretty much when he hasnt had a huge choice. He does like to give the older players just as much chance to prove they can keep their spot on the list as he does for the young ones to prove themselves. Overall this year there havnt been too many times where he has picked a Bolton or Heff over two or three young blokes who had also demanded selection.

I really think you should have put a bit more research into the subject.

 

[Daytripper]

Why is it that North after having a season ending knee injury to their best forward are now looking at top 4, yet our mob had last year?

Why, because their players were given a go and developed - Sheedy has no faith in youngsters - that no one can argue - by him constantly picking older players (such as Heff and Bolton) when he has crunch games.

You might want to have a talk to Bomber Thompson then as Geelong are obviously in trouble having only played Varcoe, Selwood and Hawkins as first and second season players this year.
Also Paul Roos and Neil Craig don't know what they're doing either !

You don't just play kids for the sake of it.

And the Kangaroos comparison is ill founded.
1. They don't have any older second tier players to speak of.
2. Their kids are hardly the reason they're winning. They're helping sure, but they're not the sole reason

 

[Pevers-Legend]

You might want to have a talk to Bomber Thompson then as Geelong are obviously in trouble having only played Varcoe, Selwood and Hawkins as first and second season players this year.
Also Paul Roos and Neil Craig don't know what they're doing either !

You don't just play kids for the sake of it.

And the Kangaroos comparison is ill founded.
1. They don't have any older second tier players to speak of.
2. Their kids are hardly the reason they're winning. They're helping sure, but they're not the sole reason

I see - so Bomber Thompson didn't play any of those guys a few years back when they weren't a real threat for the flag.

I understand your frustration with this forum and the - they're young argument=they're better than senior guys.

However that was not my argument. I said we should be playing more youngsters to fast track their development - I didn't say that they should just walk up in the 22 but it seems everyone here was raving 3 years ago about how playing finals would help the kids - well why is tis argument not true in H&A.

We should be giving guys like Lonergan a go int he seniors ahead of Bolton and Heff. If they are no good, we will find out much faster in the big league. We already know where Bolton and Heff will take us.

I don't want a team full of 18 year olds - but we should have 18year olds in the team. After all, who has stepped up this year - Ryder and Davey. Nash looks like he might make it, but after that, what ha this year wielded us?

Learning that Bolton and Heff will not take us any further? That Cole is a spud? That Hird is a great player?

If you don;t like the North example, what about Collingwood then? Malthouse has shown faith in his younger players and that has meant they are doing better than they thought they would. I know injuries haven't helped, but his insistence on playing his tried and failed boys on the big occasions reeks of a guy trying to keep his job.

Every year around this time we hear the - I'll bring in youth and speed talk - it is as always crap. He doesn't do this, he just says it to sucker the simple Essendon faithful.

He has been good for us no doubt, but he has taken us nowhere for quite a while, and there is not enough to be happy about just yet.

Why does he draft attacking mids only to play them as defensive stoppers or forward pockets? We have a crap midefiled becasue we won't play our mids in those roles as attacking players.

How can we have any flair when our younger players are constantly berated for getting burnt on the turn over. We haven't played enough youngster sin the middle - WC (yes they have an extraordinary group ) but they played them there and let them develop. Guys like Swall ow and Wells have been given time in the middle. Sherman, Hadely at Brisbane.

You can't make young midfielders good by not letting them play where they will learn the most.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

It is not all fisrt year players that are getting North results for them. I hate these sort of comments because they are simply wrong. Yes they have a couple of first year players coming in and doing good things each week but they have been rotating them in and out of the side as well. The players who are giving North a real lift are the players who have been around for 2 to 4 years. Guys like Firrito ,McIntosh ,Smith ,Swallow etc .
It is not like North have been playing all of their first year players and getting results from them. A lot of the guys that are really firing for North played little if any senior footy in their first two years.

I dont have a problem with how Sheedy has developed players over the years. He plays kids . He has played four of our draft picks from last season. Nearly everyone on our list has played senior footy. In fact if you look at it outside the rookies only Gumby, Neagle and Riemers havnt had a senior game and there is a reasonable possibility that Gumby and kyle could play before the end of the year.
On top of all of this please do tell me where Sheedy has ever dropped a young player for an older player if the young players had been performing ? He doesnt. Davey played a heap in a row. Monfries got plenty in a row. Bradley got heaps of footy. Ryder has played all year. Stanton was given a consistant run. Of the young kids this year Jetta got injured but his form dropped off so he was replaced in the side. Houli got a few games in a row until his form waned slightly and he had a minor injury so he was replaced. He is currently giving Hislop a few games and Nash is also building up games. He always gave Winderlich games when he could.

Now i know that he does like to go back to favourites but this year it has been pretty much when he hasnt had a huge choice. He does like to give the older players just as much chance to prove they can keep their spot on the list as he does for the young ones to prove themselves. Overall this year there havnt been too many times where he has picked a Bolton or Heff over two or three young blokes who had also demanded selection.

I really think you should have put a bit more research into the subject.

Guys like Firrito ,McIntosh ,Smith ,Swallow etc were given time to develop int he seniors. My argument is just that - young player don't just equate to first year draft picks. I don't expect us to be top 4. But we are treading water playing older guys.

You say he has played Monfries - he is a mid - how much time has he spent there?
He played Bradley becasue he had no option. And we have all seen the great benefit of playing a guy out of position to turn him into something he is not.

Not everyone is defenisvely minded - you can work onj that part of your game, but you don't need to mkae it your main aspect of your game.


If the youngsters a re dropped on form - how has Mark Johnson kept his spot? He has been nothing short of crap some weeks.

Why was Johns brought in 2 weeks ago when Bradelys form warranted a return?

It is Sheedy's ego driven need to prove he is right. Why did we keep McAlister for so long? Bolton? Henneman? Because of his need to prove he was right.

As I said, he has done a lot of great things for our club, but some people seem to develop blinkers when speaking about him.

Criticise him, how dare you. It's really lame.