Anthony Albanese - How long? -3-

[Festerz]

Did Netanyahu apologise for his government's failings for the massacre of 1200 Israelis, despite having one of the largest militaries and intelligence services in the world?






And more than two years after the 7 October 2023 attacks only NOW has he agreed to an inquiry - and it won't be judicial or independent of the government. The timing is not a coincidence.




The hypocrisy of those, including Zionist leaders protesting under Israeli flags and their conservative political allies and representatives of the current Israeli Government, who attack the Australian PM and say he has 'blood on his hands' is damning.

 

[Bluelegs]

We don't need to 'bolster' any more laws. Just enforce the ones we have. Govt were pretty good at doing that and more during covid.

We had a protest, immediately following a terrorist attack against Jewish civilians in Israel, in front of an Australian landmark, with people waving Palestinian flags yelling "F the Jews". Do I think allowing two years of large scale protests and then recognising a "Palestinian state" amid an ongoing conflict played a role in increasing antisemitism? Absolutely. Do I think not doing those things would have prevented the Bondi attack? No, but that's a hypothetical. Could it have? Possibly. But if you want to go back further than that then without October 7 there is no large scale offensive in Gaza and aren't any protests here so the Jewish community wouldn't be in the news any more than any other year prior to 2023. Would the Bondi attack have still happened? No idea, that's a parallel timeline. Could it have? Definitely. Could the target have been anything other than a Hannukah celebration? Definitely.

Not sure where you are going with this. Either antisemitism has increased or it hasn't. And if it has the govt has either done nothing about it, or has and has had no impact. Either way the govt is introducing further antisemitism measures. Hard to argue that antisemitism isn't a factor when a religious celebration of one of the smaller religions is targeted, but let's say it wasn't.

I don't disagree that antisemitism was a factor in these attacks. It obviously was. I just think preventing an idea is a difficult task that takes years if not generations to achieve (not unworthy of pursuing), and I don't think you can achieve it by removing people's right to protest or washing our hands of global conflicts or humanitarian crises.

I believe that is that the clear failure of government and law enforcement was that two radicalised men, one of whom was on a terrorist watch list had access to the weaponry that allowed them to commit their murders.

Albo and friends want the narrative to be about antisemitism and gun control because behind door number 2 is an even more uncomfortable conversation. There is no hiding from the fact that the shooting was carried out by a Pakistani (last I checked nowhere near Israel) migrant that we let in and his son who was born and raised here. We need to confront that.

You can choose to distinguish however you want. I would argue that people who choose to align themselves with a protest movement have to take the good with the bad. I've also heard enough Jewish/Israeli/Zionist disclaimers and justifications to spot an "I'm not racist but..." when I see one.

Interesting you make these two points side by side.

 

[RubyLovesTheDees]

Did Netanyahu apologise for his government's failings for the massacre of 1200 Israelis, despite having one of the largest militaries and intelligence services in the world?




View attachment 2500330

And more than two years after the 7 October 2023 attacks only NOW has he agreed to an inquiry - and it won't be judicial or independent of the government. The timing is not a coincidence.

View attachment 2500334


The hypocrisy of those, including Zionist leaders protesting under Israeli flags and their conservative political allies and representatives of the current Israeli Government, who attack the Australian PM and say he has 'blood on his hands' is damning.

funny how you guys never mention hamas

 

[Festerz]

You're a Jew hater.

*For those not following recent discussions, this is obviously not true.

I know that you were joking of course. So no probs from me, mate.

And happy for anyone to troll through my posting history to see I have been clear to make a strong distinction between the actions of the Netanyahu Israeli Government in its invasion of Gaza and the Jewish people as a whole.

Moderators can confirm I have reported what I considered to be anti-semitic posts on this board occasions over the past two years that have become more prevalent since the Gaza invasion.

But the actions of large sections of the conservative Australian Jewish community (but not all) is working with current and former coalition politicians to use last Sunday's tragedy as an opportunity to play partisan politics and lay the blame for the actions has changed my view on things. I suspect I'm not alone.

 

[Festerz]

funny how you guys never mention hamas

The words 'Hamas-led attacks' is in the lede of one of the two media stories I posted to make my point.

I'll say it again - in bold and caps : HAMAS LED ATTACKS.

WTF is your point? Because my point is this:

Senior military figures in Israel, the families of many of those killed or taken captive on October 7, and polls of the Israeli public have supported the establishment of an inquiry capable of holding the government to account for the Hamas led attacks and the subsequent response in the invasion of Gaza.

Until now, Netanyahu has gone to great lengths to avoid an official investigation into any failings on his or his government’s part, arguing instead that overseeing his country’s genocidal war on Gaza, which has killed more than 70,000 people since October 2023, has had to take priority.

An inconvenient truth for those wanting to hold the Australian Prime Minister to account in a way they are unwilling to do for Netanyahu more than two years after 7 October 2023. And that includes Netanyahu himself.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Pink Batts had a royal commission as well. I’d love to know the newscorp word count for each respective royal commission

Good point though I've never consumed much of Newscorp. My main point is that RC's don't really seem to deliver any tangible results. It's really an exercise to let which ever government implementing a hair brained (in Robodebts case criminal) scheme off the hook with aforementioned "findings and recommendations" which do **** all to assist the victims.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

The words 'Hamas-led attacks' is in the lede of one of the two media stories I posted to make my point.

I'll say it again - in bold and caps : HAMAS LED ATTACKS.

WTF is your point? Because my point is this:

Senior military figures in Israel, the families of many of those killed or taken captive on October 7, and polls of the Israeli public have supported the establishment of an inquiry capable of holding the government to account for the Hamas led attacks and the subsequent response in the invasion of Gaza.

Until now, Netanyahu has gone to great lengths to avoid an official investigation into any failings on his or his government’s part, arguing instead that overseeing his country’s genocidal war on Gaza, which has killed more than 70,000 people since October 2023, has had to take priority.

An inconvenient truth for those wanting to hold the Australian Prime Minister to account in a way they are unwilling to do for Netanyahu more than two years after 7 October 2023. And that includes Netanyahu himself.

Because hes a crook and one of the worst kind. Problem is I doubt he will ever be held to account.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

One of these is different from the others. One of these is thousands of years old. One of these has people shunned, libelled, excluded, rounded up, killed, everywhere they have settled. One of these is directed against a people that have never had a country until 1948.

Antisemitism is horrible.

Jewish people do not have a monopoly on being vilified/persecuted.

Aboriginal Australians might want to weigh in on this. There was also this thing known as the slave trade which went on for a couple of centuries. Colonisation and dispossession of most of the global south by Europeans.

All forms of discrimination and persecution need to be addressed. Jewish people are feeling it far more acutely at the moment following the events of last Sunday but it needs to be tackled holistically or there is no point.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Albanese needs 25 people escorting him just to get in and out of public memorial?
Wrapped in a security bubble meanwhile lecturing the country about safety.

"Lecturing"?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Jewish people do not have a monopoly on being vilified/persecuted.

Well, they have been vilified/persecuted for thousands of years so it’s a different kind of hatred. They are actually hated, and lied about. They have had to leave multiple countries, over the centuries, when their situation became intolerable and life-threatening. Culminating of course in the attempts to exterminate all of them during WWII.

So yes, other groups have suffered greatly but there’s really no equivalence in their history.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Well, they have been vilified/persecuted for thousands of years so it’s a different kind of hatred. They are actually hated, and lied about. They have had to leave multiple countries, over the centuries, when their situation became intolerable and life-threatening. Culminating of course in the attempts to exterminate all of them during WWII.

So yes, other groups have suffered greatly but there’s really no equivalence in their history.

I don't agree with that, the Holocaust is one of if not the most horrific event in human history but atrocities have been waged against plenty of other groups. They have been murdered en masse, enslaved, r*ped, dispossessed, occupied, had their culture taken from them etc

Regardless, your solution is teaching people not to discriminate against and cracking down on anyone discriminating against Jewish people? Wouldn't it be better and have a greater chance of succeeding if we taught people not to and cracked down on people discriminating against any minority group? That all people have an inherent right to be treated with respect and judged on the content of their character etc etc ?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

My wife is Jewish by birth and a refugee to boot.

Me being a Skip with a pure Anglo name and Aussie heritage (and once red hair) with at least one convct ancestor calls your comment bull shit.

The low level of antisemitism existing underneath average Australia interactions is pretty blatant if you listen to for with a close ear, the stereotype of Jews being canny with their money, leaning towards to accusations of theft, the anti intellectual bias of the tertiary educated etc/

Australian's are a low level of bigots based on religion, race or ethnic origin.

The antisemitism Stereotypes of historical Europe and Great Britain can be exposed by scratching the surface only lightly

Mate you’ve replied to my preface, not to my point.

But if you’re correct, you proved my point perfectly anyway.

If Australians by and large are pretty antisemitic, this push by the Coalition to paint Albo as soft on AS is going to fall flat on its face.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Albanese needs 25 people escorting him just to get in and out of public memorial?

That’s nothing unusual for a national leader.

You should have seen the security motorcade when the Irish president visited some years back. FMD it was like an invading army.

 

[Vindicater]

Well, they have been vilified/persecuted for thousands of years so it’s a different kind of hatred. They are actually hated, and lied about. They have had to leave multiple countries, over the centuries, when their situation became intolerable and life-threatening. Culminating of course in the attempts to exterminate all of them during WWII.

So yes, other groups have suffered greatly but there’s really no equivalence in their history.

There is a huge amount of academic study on this. What really makes the Jewish people unique is their ability to survive.

They have basically been a minority surrounded by huge empires that have risen and fallen around them.

 

[pjcrows]

Well, they have been vilified/persecuted for thousands of years so it’s a different kind of hatred. They are actually hated, and lied about. They have had to leave multiple countries, over the centuries, when their situation became intolerable and life-threatening. Culminating of course in the attempts to exterminate all of them during WWII.

So yes, other groups have suffered greatly but there’s really no equivalence in their history.

This is all true.

Which is why so many Jewish people, including rabbis and scholars, are disgusted with Netanyahu and what is happening to innocents in Gaza. They have the self-awareness to know. It's also why so many non-Jewish people should be able to make an obvious observation about Netanyahu's actions and call it out, without being labelled antisemitic.

 

[QuietB]

Good point though I've never consumed much of Newscorp. My main point is that RC's don't really seem to deliver any tangible results. It's really an exercise to let which ever government implementing a hair brained (in Robodebts case criminal) scheme off the hook with aforementioned "findings and recommendations" which do **** all to assist the victims.

Agree RC’s can be largely useless. The Liberals basically unwound the banking RC quietly and largely no one reported it.

I would make the point though that particularly in the case of the Liberals they are purely political media content generators. Pink batts is a good example - essentially that was a qld workplace issue. Julia Gillards kitchen and the union witch-hunt RC IS an even better example - it was basically a made for Newscorpe content generator which Newscorpe obligingly published on loop.

And as you say Robodebt - an RC into a knowingly unlawful scheme - and we got barely a peep from the partisan Liberal media.

 

[Sttew]

I call BS on that. He's quietly gone about his business, winning two elections, burying the Liberals in the process and getting a decent amount done (I'd prefer more but I recognise some would prefer less) without losing the general support. That makes him a pretty savvy leader. But here we have an incident where the papers and the Liberals see a chance to tear him down and are going hammer and tongs but let's see if it makes any headway. I suspect he will have put the Liberals back in their box before the end of January.

Yes Albo has won two elections but in recent weeks two things have stamped Albo a weak and indecisive leader. And in case you hadn't noticed it is not just the Opposition or Murdoch press criticising him.

The first example was how he responded to the Anika Wells' travel 'rort'. Albo dismissed any criticism of his minister and said there was nothing to see. The travel claims may have been within the rules (which the government oversees), but everyone, except Albo, could see it was not appropriate for taxpayers to be funding travel claims for families of MP's.

Then a week ago Bondi. At a press conference that night Albo stood up and said his government would do everything to stamp out antisemitism. That declaration pissed off Australians and a male journalist at the press conference called him out on it. Why? Because, as Michelle Grattan, arguably one of the most non-partisan journalists seen in this country wrote, "the massacre is the horrific culmination of the antisemitism epidemic that has spread like a wildfire in Australia."

Yesterday at a press conference Albo was asked whether his refusal to call a federal Royal Commission was because he didn't want the truth coming out. Albo said "no" and promptly walked off, cutting the press conference short.

Is it any wonder Grattan also wrote, "Albanese says, “We will do whatever is necessary to stamp out antisemitism”. That, of course, is overblown rhetoric. This scourge is not going to be dealt with, let alone eradicated, quickly, by any single measure, or sets of measures. It will need concerted and prolonged effort from both governments and civil society to at least bring it under control." A good start is a Royal Commission.

I like Albo. He is a decent and genuine person. But of late he is way out of his depth, IMO.

 

[King Patty]

I like Albo.

I liked Albo when he was opposition leader - he just hasn't delivered on what he said he would do when he became PM.
Scomo was pretty bad at the time and a lot of Aussies were happy to see the back of him.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I don't agree with that, the Holocaust is one of if not the most horrific event in human history but atrocities have been waged against plenty of other groups. They have been murdered en masse, enslaved, r*ped, dispossessed, occupied, had their culture taken from them etc

Regardless, your solution is teaching people not to discriminate against and cracking down on anyone discriminating against Jewish people? Wouldn't it be better and have a greater chance of succeeding if we taught people not to and cracked down on people discriminating against any minority group? That all people have an inherent right to be treated with respect and judged on the content of their character etc etc ?

You seem determined to believe that Jews are no more discriminated against than any other group. I can recommend some books for you to read if you like, on historical antisemitism.
Start with this one

 

[1990crow]

This is all true.

Which is why so many Jewish people, including rabbis and scholars, are disgusted with Netanyahu and what is happening to innocents in Gaza. They have the self-awareness to know. It's also why so many non-Jewish people should be able to make an obvious observation about Netanyahu's actions and call it out, without being labelled antisemitic.

You would think a people who were inflicted the worst genocide in human history would be able to stop themselves from committing one on another group.

And yet, here we are.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Yes Albo has won two elections but in recent weeks two things have stamped Albo a weak and indecisive leader. And in case you hadn't noticed it is not just the Opposition or Murdoch press criticising him.

The first example was how he responded to the Anika Wells' travel 'rort'. Albo dismissed any criticism of his minister and said there was nothing to see. The travel claims may have been within the rules (which the government oversees), but everyone, except Albo, could see it was not appropriate for taxpayers to be funding travel claims for families of MP's.

Then a week ago Bondi. At a press conference that night Albo stood up and said his government would do everything to stamp out antisemitism. That declaration pissed off Australians and a male journalist at the press conference called him out on it. Why? Because, as Michelle Grattan, arguably one of the most non-partisan journalists seen in this country wrote, "the massacre is the horrific culmination of the antisemitism epidemic that has spread like a wildfire in Australia."

Yesterday at a press conference Albo was asked whether his refusal to call a federal Royal Commission was because he didn't want the truth coming out. Albo said "no" and promptly walked off, cutting the press conference short.

Is it any wonder Grattan also wrote, "Albanese says, “We will do whatever is necessary to stamp out antisemitism”. That, of course, is overblown rhetoric. This scourge is not going to be dealt with, let alone eradicated, quickly, by any single measure, or sets of measures. It will need concerted and prolonged effort from both governments and civil society to at least bring it under control." A good start is a Royal Commission.

I like Albo. He is a decent and genuine person. But of late he is way out of his depth, IMO.

I'm no fan of Albanese Labor but none of that is gospel truth. Everything you've said is optics.

Michelle Grattan may well have said that (a completely unfalsifiable assertion, of course) but that proves nothing about Labor's actions or lack thereof.

We're getting a Royal Commission. State Royal Commissions have national powers to order people to appear before them. It's BS to suggest we need a national RC as well, and Albanese gave that scurrilous question from the journo more syllables in reply than they deserved.

 

[Sttew]

We're getting a Royal Commission. State Royal Commissions have national powers to order people to appear before them. It's BS to suggest we need a national RC as well, and Alnabese gave that scurrilous question from the jourro more syllables in reply than they deserved.

A state Royal Commission cannot inquire into issues in another jurisdiction; that's why there are calls for a federal Royal Commission.

And it is not bulltish to say we need a Federal RC given at least 2 states have experienced serious acts of antisemitism. There are lessons to be learned that a RC in one jurisdiction is unlikely to achieve for obvious reasons.

 

[Festerz]

This from the AJA Facebook page - on the evening of the Bondi memorial event. The very definition of hate speech imho.

How the AJA imagines this politically motivated gaslighting will not backfire on them and the community they claim to represent in coming weeks and months is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You seem determined to believe that Jews are no more discriminated against than any other group. I can recommend some books for you to read if you like, on historical antisemitism.
Start with this one

View attachment 2500477

Discrimination is discrimination regardless of who is on the receiving end.

What actions do you think should be taken by the government to address antisemitism separately to any other kind of discrimination? Like you say it's been going on for thousands of years so obviously it's not something that can be solved simply by throwing money at it. This isn't a case of a government policy of discrimination like 1930s Germany or Soviet Russia, it's extremist groups pushing their agendas of hate and ignorance. We have laws on the books to deal with them, they should be accountable for their bigoted bile.

I already have these books on my bookshelf, so I probably don't need to add to it with the one you've suggested but I'll take it onboard.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

We don't need to 'bolster' any more laws. Just enforce the ones we have. Govt were pretty good at doing that and more during covid.

We had a protest, immediately following a terrorist attack against Jewish civilians in Israel, in front of an Australian landmark, with people waving Palestinian flags yelling "F the Jews". Do I think allowing two years of large scale protests and then recognising a "Palestinian state" amid an ongoing conflict played a role in increasing antisemitism? Absolutely. Do I think not doing those things would have prevented the Bondi attack? No, but that's a hypothetical. Could it have? Possibly. But if you want to go back further than that then without October 7 there is no large scale offensive in Gaza and aren't any protests here so the Jewish community wouldn't be in the news any more than any other year prior to 2023. Would the Bondi attack have still happened? No idea, that's a parallel timeline. Could it have? Definitely. Could the target have been anything other than a Hannukah celebration? Definitely.

Not sure where you are going with this. Either antisemitism has increased or it hasn't. And if it has the govt has either done nothing about it, or has and has had no impact. Either way the govt is introducing further antisemitism measures. Hard to argue that antisemitism isn't a factor when a religious celebration of one of the smaller religions is targeted, but let's say it wasn't. Albo and friends want the narrative to be about antisemitism and gun control because behind door number 2 is an even more uncomfortable conversation. There is no hiding from the fact that the shooting was carried out by a Pakistani (last I checked nowhere near Israel) migrant that we let in and his son who was born and raised here. We need to confront that.



You can choose to distinguish however you want. I would argue that people who choose to align themselves with a protest movement have to take the good with the bad. I've also heard enough Jewish/Israeli/Zionist disclaimers and justifications to spot an "I'm not racist but..." when I see one.

Israel's foreign policy is not Australia's to dictate. If Albo feels so strongly about the war in Gaza he could stop all military supply to Israel, and he hasn't.

Indian, not Pakistani.