Arafat Dead?

[GuruJane]

Speaking of people with zero credibility, how are you Guru O'Reilly!

You know as well as I do that this time line is deliberately misleading, if not factually wrong, in order to push a particular point of view. Not exactly objective.

JimBoy ... you just watch what develops between Suha, keeper of the billions, and the Palestinian leadership.

The lid has been lifted on the whole stinking can of worms and even you will be cringing by the end of it.

 

[Lestat]

Since we are now allowed to post from 'biased' sites...here you go Banana...just for you, A list of massacre's committed by Israel against the Palestinian people.

Palestinian terrorized by massacres

Place / Village Date Crime made by Number of Killed
Baldat al-Shaikh 31.01.1947 Jews Groups 60
Mansurat al Khayt 18.01.1948 Jews Groups NA
Sa'Sa'a Village 14.02.1948 Jews Groups NA
Qisarya 15.02.1948 Jews Groups NA
Wadi 'Ara 27.02.1948 Jews Groups NA
Abu Kabeer Village 31.03.1948 Haganah NA
Dair Yasin 10.04.1948 Irgun 254
Nasir ad Din, Khirbet 12.04.1948 Jews Groups NA
Hawsha 15.04.1948 Jews Groups NA
Al Wa'ra Al-Sawda 18.04.1948 Jews Groups NA
Haifa 21.04.1948 Jews Groups NA
Husayniyya 21.04.1948 Jews Groups NA
Ayn az Zaytun 02.05.1948 Jews Groups NA
Bayt Daras 11.05.1948 Jews Groups NA
Burayr 12.05.1948 Jews Groups NA
Khubbayza 12.05.1948 Jews Groups NA
Abu Shusha 14.05.1948 Jofati Army 50
Al Kibri 21.05.1948 Jews Groups NA
Al Tantoura 21.05.1948 Jews Groups NA
Qazaza 09.07.1948 Jews Groups NA
Lydda 10.07.1948 Jews Groups NA
El-Led 11.07.1948 Mohsa Dayan 426
Al Tira 16.07.1948 Jews Groups NA
Ijzim 24.07.1948 Jews Groups NA
Beer Sheba 21.10.1948 Jews Groups NA
Isdud 28.10.1948 Jews Groups NA
Al Dawayima 29.10.1948 Jews Groups NA
Jish 29.10.1948 Jews Groups NA
Majd al Kurum 29.10.1948 Jews Groups NA
Safsaf 29.10.1948 Jews Groups NA
Sa'sa 30.10.1948 Jews Groups NA
Saliha 30.10.1948 Jews Groups NA
Arab al Samniyya 30.10.1948 Jews Groups NA
Aylabon Village 30.10.1948 Israeli Army NA
Al-Ba'na / Dair Al-Asad 31.10.1948 Israeli Army NA
Al Khisas 18.12.1948 Jews Groups NA
Qibya 14.10.1953 Israeli Army 67
Qalqalya Village 10.10.1956 Israeli Army 70
Kufr Qasim 29.10.1956 Israeli Army 49
Khan Younes 03.11.1956 Israeli Army 250
Khan Younes 12.11.1956 Israeli Army 275
Sabra & Shatila Camps 16.09.1982 Isr. Army/Kata'ib 3500
Oyon Qara 20.05.1990 Israeli Army 7
Al-Aqsa Mosque 08.10.1990 Israeli Army 23
Ebrahime Mosque 25.02.1994 Baruch Goldstein 53
Qana 18.04.1996 Israeli Army 109

http://www.palestinehistory.com/massacre.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/ia/palestinefoever/massacre.html

And lets take a look at what Sharon's been up last century....

-------------------------------------------------------

Wild Justice: The Crimes of Ariel Sharon

by Alexander Cockburn

Source: New York Press, vol 14 no 5, 2001

The way things are now going, Ariel Sharon will be elected prime minister of Israel on Feb. 6. Some incorrigible optimists are suggesting that only a right-wing extremist of Sharon's notoriety will have the credentials to broker lasting peace with the Palestinians.

Maybe so. History is not devoid of such examples. But Sharon's record is not encouraging. His recent role in provoking the latest Palestinian uprising by his excursion under heavy military protection to holy sites in Jerusalem is well known. A little more faintly perhaps people recall the verdict of an Israeli commission of inquiry finding that Sharon bore some responsibility for the dreadful Phalangist massacres in Palestinian refugee camps outside Beirut.

But in fact Sharon's history as a terrorist, with documented participation in what can be fairly stigmatized as war crimes, goes back to the early 1950s. Here is a brief resume, culled in part from a recent two-part series on Sharon in the well-respected Hebrew-language Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz.

Sharon was born in 1928 and as a young man joined the Haganah, the underground military organization of Israel in its pre-state days. In 1953 he was given command of Unit 101, whose mission is often described as that of retaliation against Arab attacks on Jewish villages. In fact, as can be seen from two terrible onslaughts, one of them very well known, Unit 101's purpose was that of instilling terror by the infliction of discriminate, murderous violence not only on able-bodied fighters but on the young, the old, the helpless.

Sharon's first documented sortie as a terrorist was in August of 1953 on the refugee camp of El-Bureig, south of Gaza. An Israeli history of the unit records 50 refugees as having been killed; other sources allege 15 or 20. Major-General Vagn Bennike, the UN commander, reported that "bombs were thrown" by Sharon's men "through the windows of huts in which the refugees were sleeping and, as they fled, they were attacked by small arms and automatic weapons."

In October of 1953 came the attack by Sharon's Unit 101 on the Jordanian village of Qibya, whose "stain" Israel's foreign minister at the time, Moshe Sharett, confided to his diary, "would stick to us and not be washed away for many years." Israeli historian Avi Shlaim, cited in a petition demanding retribution against Sharon for war crimes, describes the massacre thus:

"Sharon's order was to penetrate Qibya, blow up houses and inflict heavy casualties on its inhabitants. His success in carrying out the order surpassed all expectations. The full and macabre story of what happened at Qibya was revealed only during the morning after the attack. The village had been reduced to rubble: forty-five houses had been blown up, and sixty-nine civilians, two thirds of them women and children, had been killed. Sharon and his men claimed that they believed that all the inhabitants had run away and that they had no idea that anyone was hiding inside the houses.

"The UN observer who inspected the scene reached a different conclusion: 'One story was repeated time after time: the bullet splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them.' The slaughter in Qibya was described contemporaneously in a letter to the president of the United Nations Security Council dated October 16, 1953...from the Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary of Jordan to the United States. On 14 October 1953 at 9:30 at night, he wrote, Israeli troops launched a battalion-scale attack on the village of Qibya in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (at the time the West Bank was annexed to Jordan).

"According to the diplomat's account, Israeli forces had entered the village and systematically murdered all occupants of houses, using automatic weapons, grenades and incendiaries. On 14 October, the bodies of 42 Arab civilians had been recovered; several more bodies had been still under the wreckage. Forty houses, the village school and a reservoir had been destroyed. Quantities of unused explosives, bearing Israel army markings in Hebrew, had been found in the village. At about 3 a.m., to cover their withdrawal, Israeli support troops had begun shelling the neighboring villages of Budrus and Shuqba from positions in Israel. The U.S. Department of State issued a statement on 18 October 1953, expressing its 'deepest sympathy for the families of those who lost their lives' in the Qibya attack as well as the conviction that those responsible 'should be brought to account and that effective measures should be taken to prevent such incidents in the future.'"

Let us move now to Sharon's conduct when he was head of the Southern Command of Israel's Defense Forces in the early 1970s. The Gaza "clearances" were vividly described by Phil Reeves in a piece in The London Independent on Jan. 21 of this year:

"Thirty years have elapsed since Ariel Sharon, favourite to win Israel's forthcoming election, was the head of the Israel Defence Forces' southern command, charged with the task of 'pacifying' the recalcitrant Gaza Strip after the 1967 war. But the old men still remember it well. Especially the old men on Wreckage Street. Until late 1970, Wreckage, or Had'd, Street wasn't a street, just one of scores of narrow, nameless alleys weaving through Gaza City's Beach Camp, a shantytown cluttered with low, two-roomed houses, built with UN aid for refugees from the 1948 war who then, as now, were waiting for the international community to settle their future. The street acquired its name after an unusually prolonged visit from Mr Sharon's soldiers. Their orders were to bulldoze hundreds of homes to carve a wide, straight street. This would allow Israeli troops and their heavy armoured vehicles to move easily through the camp, to exert control and hunt down men from the Palestinian Liberation Army.

"'They came at night and began marking the houses they wanted to demolish with red paint,' said Ibrahim Ghanim, 70, a retired labourer. 'In the morning they came back, and ordered everyone to leave. I remember all the soldiers shouting at people, Yalla, yalla, yalla, yalla! They threw everyone's belongings into the street. Then Sharon brought in bulldozers and started flattening the street. He did the whole lot, almost in one day. And the soldiers would beat people, can you imagine? Soldiers with guns, beating little kids?'

"By the time the Israeli army's work was done, hundreds of homes were destroyed, not only in Wreckage Street but through the camp, as Sharon ploughed out a grid of wide security roads. Many of the refugees took shelter in schools, or squeezed into the already badly overcrowded homes of relatives. Other families, usually those with a Palestinian political activist, were loaded into trucks and taken to exile in a town in the heart of the Sinai Desert, then controlled by Israel."

As Reeves reported, the devastation of Beach Camp was far from the exception. "In August 1971 alone, troops under Mr Sharon's command destroyed some 2,000 homes in the Gaza Strip, uprooting 16,000 people for the second time in their lives. Hundreds of young Palestinian men were arrested and deported to Jordan and Lebanon. Six hundred relatives of suspected guerrillas were exiled to Sinai. In the second half of 1971, 104 guerrillas were assassinated. 'The policy at that time was not to arrest suspects, but to assassinate them,' said Raji Sourani, director of the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights in Gaza City."

As defense minister in Menachem Begin's second government, Sharon was the commander who stunned his colleagues by instigating the fulldress 1982 assault on Lebanon, with the express design of dispatching all Palestinians to Jordan and making Lebanon a client state. From the vantage point of nearly 20 years we can see it was a war plan that cost untold suffering, many thousands of Palestinian and Lebanese lives, and also the deaths of over 1000 Israeli soldiers.

Sharon also engendered the infamous massacres at Sabra and Shatilla refugee camps. The slaughter in the two contiguous camps took place from 6 at night on Sept. 16, 1982 until 8 in the morning on Sept. 18, in an area until the control of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). The perpetrators were members of the Phalange militia, the Lebanese force that was armed by and closely allied with Israel since the onset of Lebanon's civil war in 1975. The victims during the 62hour rampage included infants, children, women (including pregnant women) and the elderly, some of whom were mutilated or disemboweled before or after they were killed.

To cite only one postmassacre eyewitness account, that of U.S. journalist Thomas Friedman of The New York Times: "Mostly I saw groups of young men in their twenties and thirties who had been lined up against walls, tied by their hands and feet, and then mowed down gangland-style with fusillades of machine-gun fire."

An official Israeli commission of inquiry**chaired by Yitzhak Kahan, president of Israel's Supreme Court**investigated the massacre, and in February 1983 publicly released its findings (without Appendix B, which remains secret). The Kahan Commission found that Ariel Sharon, among other Israelis, had responsibility for the massacre. The commission's report stated: "It is our view that responsibility is to be imputed to the Minister of Defense for having disregarded the danger of acts of vengeance and bloodshed by the Phalangists against the population of the refugee camps, and having failed to take this danger into account when he decided to have the Phalangists enter the camps. In addition, responsibility is to be imputed to the Minister of Defense for not ordering appropriate measures for preventing or reducing the danger of massacre as a condition for the Phalangists' entry into the camps. These blunders constitute the nonfulfillment of a duty with which the Defense Minister was charged."

Sharon refused to resign. Finally, on Feb. 14, 1983, he was relieved of his duties as defense minister, though he remained in the cabinet as minister without portfolio.

His career was in eclipse, but he continued to burnish his credentials as a Likud ultra. Sharon has always been against any sort of peace deal, unless on terms entirely impossible for Palestinians to accept. As Nehemia Strasler outlined in Ha'aretz on Jan. 18 of this year, in 1979, as a member of Begin's cabinet, he voted against a peace treaty with Egypt. In 1985 he voted against the withdrawal of Israeli troops to the so-called security zone in Southern Lebanon. In 1991 he opposed Israel's participation in the Madrid peace conference. In 1993 he voted no in the Knesset on the Oslo agreement. The following year he abstained in the Knesset on a vote over a peace treaty with Jordan. He voted against the Hebron agreement in 1997 and objected to the withdrawal from southern Lebanon.

Sharon believes in establishing "facts on the ground." As Begin's minister of agriculture in the late 1970s he established many of the West Bank settlements that are now a major obstruction to any peace deal. His present position? Not another square inch of land for Palestinians on the West Bank. He will agree to a Palestinian state on the existing areas of either total or partial Palestinian control, 42 percent of the West Bank. Israel will retain control of the highways across the West Bank and the water sources. All settlements will stay in place with access by the IDF to them. Jerusalem will remain under Israeli sovereignty and he plans to continue building around the city. The Golan Heights would remain under Israel's control.

It can be argued that Sharon represents the long-term policy of all Israeli governments, without any obscuring fluff or verbal embroidery. Ben-Gurion was complicit in the terror missions of Unit 101. Every Israeli government has condoned or overtly supported settlements and building around Jerusalem. But that doesn't begin to confront Sharon's sinister, violent shadow across the past half century.

That shadow is best evoked by a young Israeli woman, Ilil Komey, 16, who confronted Ariel Sharon last week when he visited her agricultural high school outside Beersheva. The scene was aired on Israeli television. The teenage girl whose father suffered shell shock during the Lebanon war stood and pointed her finger at the 72-year-old Sharon. "I think you sent my father into Lebanon," Ilil said. "Ariel Sharon, I accuse you of having made me suffer for 16 some odd years. I accuse you of having made my father suffer for over 16 years. I accuse you of a lot of things that made a lot of people suffer in this country. I don't think that you can now be elected as prime minister."

Sadly, Ilil is probably wrong. Sharon can be elected. That's the grim truth of the situation.

http://www.iap.org/sharoncrimes.htm

 

[jim boy]

JimBoy ... you just watch what develops between Suha, keeper of the billions, and the Palestinian leadership.

The lid has been lifted on the whole stinking can of worms and even you will be cringing by the end of it.

I've got a wait and see attitude on that one, but to be honest, the care factor isn't huge.

 

[Bananabender]

As I understand it, the period 1947-48 was a time of war when five Arab nations attacked the Jews of Palestine. You reference wartime battles without context.

Similarly with battles in 1956.

The Sabra and Shattila examples of 1982 were attacks by Lebanese Falangists on a Palestinian refugee camp. Sharon was found to have been indirectly responsible and relieved of his duties by an Israeli Court of Inquiry.
Strangely enough, no Paelstinain Court has ever tried any of the war criminals who have perpetrated the massacres on civilians I listed above - but then you don't care about Israeli casualties do you Mr. Racist.

For that matter Arafat has never been tried for his many war crimes or for the theft of billions from his own people.

Baruch Goldstein was a deranged individual acting on his own. Had he survived he would have been charged with murder by the Israelis. My list did not include the work of individual murderers acting alone - it specifically relates to Palestinian terrorists working directly under Arafat's control.

 

[GuruJane]

I've got a wait and see attitude on that one, but to be honest, the care factor isn't huge.

Oh. Right. Suddenly we "don't care".

Why is this? Not because the reports are now coming from mainstean news outlets and you can't debunk them for being extremeist websites?

 

[Bombers 2003]

The Sabra and Shattila examples of 1982 were attacks by Lebanese Falangists on a Palestinian refugee camp. Sharon was found to have been indirectly responsible and relieved of his duties by an Israeli Court of Inquiry.
for the theft of billions from his own people.

1-And who encouraged and commanded the Falangists in their attacks,if not IDF people under Sharon's command?.
2-and when is Bibi going to pay back the millions he stole frome the Isreali people?.

 

[Bombers 2003]

Bombers 2003

"1-If rabbi Meir Kahane has NO Credibilty among Israelis,why does he have support among 5-6% of religious Jews?."

Kahane is dead. Has been for a long time. You don't know what you're talking about.

I wasnt aware Kahane is dead,but that still doesnt invalidate my point on his influence or support among religious Jews.

 

[Bananabender]

I wasnt aware Kahane is dead,but that still doesnt invalidate my point on his influence or support among religious Jews.

But he fact remains that his influence and support among religious Jews is close to Zero.

 

[Bananabender]

1-And who encouraged and commanded the Falangists in their attacks,if not IDF people under Sharon's command?.
2-and when is Bibi going to pay back the millions he stole frome the Isreali people?.

Wrong on all points. The Falangists were under the command of a man called Eli Hobeika who turned out to be a stooge of the Syrians. There is a fair body of evidence that the Syrians were behind Sabra and Shattilla because of a vendetta that Assad had against the Palestinians. Whatever the case, Mr. Hobeika was never hounded or charged with any offence even though he was directly involved in the salughter at both camps. Instead, he was well looked after by the Syrian occupation army, spent some time as a member of the Lebanese parliament and lived happily ever after until a couple of years ago when he unfortunatley blew up.

As for Bibi, the charges against him were never proven and the dollar amount of the allegations against him were miniscule in comparison to the $3billion or so that Yasser has gotten away with.

Incidentally, Yasser Arafat is/was related to the Husseini family of Jerusalem and you might be interested in this character who was the leader of the Palestinian Arabs and spent most of WW2 as a guest of Adolph Hitler -

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Index/H/husseini.html

When judging Arafat you might like to consider this quote -

"Indeed, the Mufti represents the link connecting the two attempts to destroy the Jews, that of the Nazis and that of the Arabs. It is thus not surprising that the Mufti has a lofty place in the PLO's pantheon. Arafat saw the Mufti as an educator and leader, declaring in 1985 that he deemed it an honor to walk in his footsteps. Arafat stressed that the PLO continued to march in the path carved out by the Mufti."

Is Arafat dead?

He will be as soon as Suha sorts out how much she's going to get out of the deal.

 

[carn_the_nmfc]

I reckon his wife is a bitch.

 

[jim boy]

Oh. Right. Suddenly we "don't care".

Why is this? Not because the reports are now coming from mainstean news outlets and you can't debunk them for being extremeist websites?

Suddenly?

When have I ever said I cared?

Why should I care?

The guy is 75, he's had his time and as I have stated before although he has done alot for the Palestinian cause, he is now holding it back.

And as for his corruption, it's no secret there is a problem with corruption but how deep it goes is not known at this point. Certainaly the pro-Israeli press and neo-cons yourself seek to make it look it as bad as possible in order to divide and weaken Palestinian leadership. But unlike you, I don't don't pick and choose which reports to believe in order to suit my own irrational beliefs.

 

[WA ROO]

As I understand it, the period 1947-48 was a time of war when five Arab nations attacked the Jews of Palestine. You reference wartime battles without context.

Similarly with battles in 1956.

The Sabra and Shattila examples of 1982 were attacks by Lebanese Falangists on a Palestinian refugee camp. Sharon was found to have been indirectly responsible and relieved of his duties by an Israeli Court of Inquiry.
Strangely enough, no Paelstinain Court has ever tried any of the war criminals who have perpetrated the massacres on civilians I listed above - but then you don't care about Israeli casualties do you Mr. Racist.

For that matter Arafat has never been tried for his many war crimes or for the theft of billions from his own people.

Baruch Goldstein was a deranged individual acting on his own. Had he survived he would have been charged with murder by the Israelis. My list did not include the work of individual murderers acting alone - it specifically relates to Palestinian terrorists working directly under Arafat's control.

Don't be calling Lestat a racist now he will be calling you WA ROO in no time
Lestat more come backs then Dame Nellie Melba

 

[3rdEchelon]

I reckon his wife is a bitch.

Stay out of it with your simple comments Suzi. This topic is waaay too complicated for someone like you.

 

[^Eagle^]

– Feb. 21, 1970: SwissAir flight 330, bound for Tel Aviv, is bombed in mid-flight by PFLP, a PLO member group. 47 people are killed.

– May 8, 1970: PLO terrorists attack an Israeli schoolbus with bazooka fire, killing nine pupils and three teachers from Moshav Avivim

– Sept. 6, 1970: TWA, Pan-Am, and BOAC airplanes are hijacked by PLO terrorists.

– September 1970: Jordanian forces battle the PLO terrorist organization, driving its members out of Jordan after the group's violent activity threatens to destabilize the kingdom. The terrorists flee to Lebanon. This period in PLO history is called “Black September.”

– May 1972: PFLP, part of the PLO, dispatches members of the Japanese Red Army to attack Lod Airport in Tel Aviv, killing 27 people.

– Sept. 5, 1972: Munich Massacre —11 Israeli athletes are murdered at the Munich Olympics by a group calling themselves “Black September,”said to be an arm of Fatah, operating under Arafat's direct command.

– March 1, 1973: Palestinian terrorists take over Saudi embassy in Khartoum. The next day, two Americans –including the United States' ambassador to Sudan, Cleo Noel – and a Belgian were shot and killed. James J. Welsh, an analyst for the National Security Agency from 1969 through 1974, charged Arafat with direct complicity in these murders.

– April 11, 1974: 11 people are killed by Palestinian terrorists who attack apartment building in Kiryat Shmona.

– May 15, 1974: PLO terrorists infiltrating from Lebanon hold children hostage in Ma'alot school. 26 people, 21 of them children, are killed.

– June 9, 1974: Palestinian National Council adopts “Phased Plan,” which calls for the establishment of a Palestinian state on any territory evacuated by Israel, to be used as a base of operations for destroying the whole of Israel. The PLO reaffirms its rejection of United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, which calls for a “just and lasting peace” and the “right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.”

– November 1974: PLO takes responsibility for the PDFLP's Beit She'an murders in which 4 Israelis are killed.

– Nov. 13, 1974: Arafat, wearing a gun, addresses the U.N. General Assembly.

– March 1975: Members of Fatah attack the Tel Aviv seafront and take hostages in the Savoy hotel. Three soldiers, three civilians and seven terrorists are killed.

– March 1978: Coastal Road Massacre —Fatah terrorists take over a bus on the Haifa-Tel Aviv highway and kill 21 Israelis.

You forgot entebe! He cooperated with President ?Mugabe? to hijack an LL plane and fly it to Uganda[where again the Jews realised they were alone in this world and had to rescue their own people themselves when everyone else went about their daily lives]

well, all i can say now is:
nananana, nananana hey-hey-ey goodBYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PEACE 05
woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!