Are parking spaces for 'mums with prams' legally enforceable?

[Chief]

I don't know about you, but lollypop people around here stop traffic for adults crossing the road. The last 3 times I've stopped at a children's crossing, it's been to allow adults through. No child in sight

Oh man, 30 seconds out of your day so someone can cross a road.

Bummer!

You know if there is someone waiting there you stop for them, right? Whether or not there is someone with a sign?

 

[kickazz]

Interesting discussion so far. When I asked the question I suppose there was two aspects to it - the legal technicality, plus people's attitudes in general.

Legally, you don't get a fine, as I suspected.

As for the other aspect, well I tend to agree with the "You know we live in a society" sentiment. I wouldn't park in one 'just because I can' if I can find another park somewhere.

There may be circumstances where I would - perhaps if I was escorting a frail relative to the shopping centre, or if I had an injury that made walking a long distance problematic and I only needed 5 mins to go into the chemist or something. I suppose in both cases I am making somewhat of an arbitrary judgement call that I am more worthy of the spot - perhaps just as arbitrary as the decison to create these spaces in the first place is.

The safety aspect is an important one too, especially given the cramped nature of today's car parks and the more agressive driving we are seeing. I do think there is a real commercial aspect to it as well. If I had to take a pram to the shops, and shopping centre A had these spots but B didnt, it would make me much more likely to go to A. B starts to lose customers in a key demographic, and so they follow suit.

 

[Poseidon]

Oh man, 30 seconds out of your day so someone can cross a road.

Bummer!

You know if there is someone waiting there you stop for them, right? Whether or not there is someone with a sign?

An adult is capable of crossing the road without having to hold up traffic.

And I don't think that's true. At least not here in WA.

 

[Chief]

An adult is capable of crossing the road without having to hold up traffic.

And I don't think that's true. At least not here in WA.

If there is an attendant there, they must do their thing for everyone. The adult may bot legally cross outside the crossing.

So, adult must cross assisted by attendant. Not the fault of either party.

 

[kickazz]

If there is an attendant there, they must do their thing for everyone. The adult may bot legally cross outside the crossing.

So, adult must cross assisted by attendant. Not the fault of either party.

Further to that, if it is a Children's Crossing with the flags shown, then legally you must stop and not proceed until the crossing is completely clear, regardless of the pedestrian's age. At least in Vic anyway.

 

[Bosun]

Yes.

And i challenge you to find any of my posts that praise Perth or its culture. I am very "anti-Perth".

I am also very Anti private companies introducing any policy that piggy backs a by-law (disabled bays) and tries to get its users to comply via guilt.

Parents do not deserve preferential treatment over the childless from private companies. They get enough handouts from their masters, government.

Actually agree with your last point on handouts, if you have decide to have a child then you are responsible for paying for it.

I don't see the parking bays as a guilt trip, however when I have to (rarely) venture into a shopping centre and see a mum or dad on their own getting a pram out while dealing with on or two more kids to deal with i I really don't think having a designated few spots out of how many reserved (but not legally enforceable) is much of an issue.

 

[shurg123]

Would not park in them even if they were the only spots remaining, because odds are, it will mean parking next to over-sized SUVs. Don't want to risk any scratches on my car when a soccer mum with no spatial awareness decides to go forward a 'little bit more'.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Breeding should not be granted special rights.

In fact, it should incur penalties.

 

[Power Raid]

I park there anyway.

I welcome the dirty looks and eagerly await a confrontation with a random mother.

is that not selfish?

 

[vealesy]

Your point?

 

[vealesy]

In this day and age of cheap contraception and abortion access, i would say having children is the single most selfish act imaginable.

 

[Caesar]

Because you cant be "booked" parking in the parents bays.

It is not enforceable by law. At all. Anywhere. Ever.


So stop hatin.

Interesting discussion so far. When I asked the question I suppose there was two aspects to it - the legal technicality, plus people's attitudes in general.

Legally, you don't get a fine, as I suspected.

Actually, it depends on local council bylaws. In some local areas, they have been made legally enforcable. e.g.

http://www.joondalup.wa.gov.au/Libr...for_Seniors_and_Parents_with_Prams_Policy.pdf

4.1. Privately-Owned Land:

a. The City encourages and supports the provision of dedicated parking bays for the exclusive use of seniors and parents with prams on privately-owned land.

b. Where formally approached by private landowners, the City may undertake enforcement of the use of dedicated parking bays for the exclusive use of seniors and parents with prams, subject to the City entering into a formal agreement with the private landowner.

I have a mate who was a retail manager at a Stockland shopping centre, and he had delegated authority to issue council parking fines. He mostly used it to stop commuters breaking the '4hrs max' time limit (there was a train station nearby) but he was empowered to issue fines for any violations of local government parking regulations. That included parents with prams, seniors, disabled, etc.

 

[phantom13]

Actually, it depends on local council bylaws. In some local areas, they have been made legally enforcable. e.g.

http://www.joondalup.wa.gov.au/Libr...for_Seniors_and_Parents_with_Prams_Policy.pdf



I have a mate who was a retail manager at a Stockland shopping centre, and he had delegated authority to issue council parking fines. He mostly used it to stop commuters breaking the '4hrs max' time limit (there was a train station nearby) but he was empowered to issue fines for any violations of local government parking regulations. That included parents with prams, seniors, disabled, etc.

How would they enforce it. I'm not offering an opinion on parking in them or not but how do you enforce "parents with prams", what if the car has a parent with a pram but no child? child but no pram? Can they be fined? I realise this is being pedantic but seems like a stupidly easy fine to get out of if you were to get pinged for it.

 

[Caesar]

'Enforcement' means fines. So, yes.

Any child small enough to be in a pram would require some kind of child restraint, so I imagine they just fine any cars lacking child restraints that they find in the space. Or perhaps they just fine people that they observe parking there who don't have children. Most carparks have CCTV so it's probably easy to prove if people dispute it.

 

[phantom13]

'Enforcement' means fines. So, yes.

Any child small enough to be in a pram would require some kind of child restraint, so I imagine they just fine any cars lacking child restraints that they find in the space. Or perhaps they just fine people that they observe parking there who don't have children. Most carparks have CCTV so it's probably easy to prove if people dispute it.

That's my point. I have seen 10 year olds in prams (no bulls**t) i'm sure others have probably seen older, what if the person parking has a pram in the boot but no child, they are still techinally a "parent with a pram". I see loopholes galore with trying to enforce that fine.

 

[Caesar]

I doubt its as much of an issue as you think. Councils tend to cover themselves on this sort of stuff. There is probably some line in the bylaws that says 'parents with prams' only applies to children who require a booster seat or something. Or like I said, they might only fine people they see physically using the parking space without kids. In practice, courts are rather commonsense and they don't take particularly kindly to people who play Law & Order trying to get out of fines on technicalities.

I know my local shopping centre issues stick-on permits for parents with prams, and you need one if you want to park in the space.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

In this day and age of cheap contraception and abortion access, i would say having children is the single most selfish act imaginable.

Breeding should not be rewarded.

Parking in these spaces is an acceptable act of political dissent.

 

[bunsen burner]

Were they considerate of my need to get in and out of the shops quickly when their hubby was getting in and out of their vagina quickly?

And i don't do it just to start arguments. I couldn't give a shit about them or their kids.

I have better shit to do than be considerate of some silly.

One day you will have kids and I suspect you will feel entitled to park there. Even if you don't, once your kids have grown up you can't keep parking there if you have had the benefit of using them more than occasionally.

I prefer just let the people with prams park there. I won't park in a disabled bay but don't care if people do. I often see people with disabled stickers who clearly aren't diabled. If you're going to lend you sign (or your car) to your able bodied kids then don't complain when others park there!

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

One day you will have kids and I suspect you will feel entitled to park there.

Why should breeding be accompanied by a sense of entitlement?

 

[bunsen burner]

Why should breeding be accompanied by a sense of entitlement?

I probably used the wrong word. I should have said "when you have kids you will probably take advantage of those spaces".

My point was that the spaces are there and if you do have a stroller and kid/s and take advantage of these spaces then you have to respect it and stop parking their when the kids grow out of the stroller.

If you don't have kids yet you should ask yourself "if I had kids, would I use those spaces". if the answer is yes then you should just go park elsewhere. Everybody wins.

 

[phantom13]

I probably used the wrong word. I should have said "when you have kids you will probably take advantage of those spaces".

My point was that the spaces are there and if you do have a stroller and kid/s and take advantage of these spaces then you have to respect it and stop parking their when the kids grow out of the stroller.

If you don't have kids yet you should ask yourself "if I had kids, would I use those spaces". if the answer is yes then you should just go park elsewhere. Everybody wins.

Whilst i agree with the premise of your post the highlighted is pretty stupid. Kids or no kids most people are going to try and park in the closest possible parking space (the pram parking spots are usually pretty close). I couldn't care less as i prefer parking further away to get a spot straight away, but to ask "if you had kids would you like to park close to the shops?" is akin to asking "is water wet?"

 

[bunsen burner]

Whilst i agree with the premise of your post the highlighted is pretty stupid. Kids or no kids most people are going to try and park in the closest possible parking space (the pram parking spots are usually pretty close). I couldn't care less as i prefer parking further away to get a spot straight away, but to ask "if you had kids would you like to park close to the shops?" is akin to asking "is water wet?"

Thanks for missing my point.

 

[00Stinger]

I'm pretty sure they are for parents, not just Mums. But neither I suppose. Just a convenience offered by malls. You'd be kind of a dick to take them if you didn't have a pram though.

I disagree with this. Just because you have a pram doesn't mean you should get priority parking

 

[phantom13]

Thanks for missing my point.

Don't think i did, please clarify it for me.

 

[bunsen burner]

I disagree with this. Just because you have a pram doesn't mean you should get priority parking

Think about it from the shopping centre's perspective: the chances are that Mums with strollers have other young kids. Mum has hands full with stroller, maybe shopping trolley, and hard to control loose other kids. More chance of an accident. More chance of shopping centre being sued for not providing safer parking.

It's really not that big a deal that shopping centres offer preference parking for Mums with strollers. And it's fair enough if you disagree (your argument is quite valid), but even still, people who disagree should cop it on the chin and park elsewhere.