Ashes Theory

[Gilbert_Hodge]

So after a long sleepless night I came up with a theory. Not how to win the Ashes or kill Flintoff, but about its history and what England are actually celebrating.

Most of us will be familiar with its history, and the fact that the urn was given to the English as a practical joke as they were the laughing stock of the nation when Australia beat them on their turf. So it got me thinking, why would England celebrate this? After all, the Ashes are effectively a joke taking the piss out of how bad England were at the time.

With this in mind, it is questionable as to why England would want to keep a practical joke which is aimed at them for so long, and celebrate mediocrity.

No I am not a sore loser (although my English Dad is rubbing it in), it is just a questionable thing to play for from an English perspective.

 

[dr nick]

It adds more significance for them holding an urn that is a reminder of their cricket at its depths, a proud cricketing nation that was once humiliated by the touring antipodeans. Remembering the failures can be a massive motivator.

Certainly rather be playing for that than some manufactured waterford crystal trophy that every other series is played for.... oh wait.

 

[EnglishWarrior]

With this in mind, it is questionable as to why England would want to keep a practical joke which is aimed at them for so long, and celebrate mediocrity.

Eeerrm, is it cos we are able to laugh at ourselves, unlike some other nations that shall remain nameless eh

 

[Wallaby]

Methinks you need to read your history a bit more.

The Ashes were set up as a Sacred Relic - wars have been fought over Sacred Relics - these are a bit of fun. It also indicated that Cricket was the ultimate example of 'Almighty England' - once the aussies proved they could match the poms, Cricket (with a capital C) was not so symbolic anymore - so 'The Body of English Cricket' was partly the aura of everything English.

The physical Ashes were actually created in Australia by a group of women at a BBQ - so 'The Ashes of English Cricket' are actually contain ashes of a stump and bails from Australia.

They were given to Ivo Bligh in 1882-83 - even though the series was drawn 2-2. He took them home and chucked them in a drawer. Forgot them

No one even mentioned The Ashes again until 20 years later when Plum Warner called his book of the 1903-04 series 'In Search of The Ashes' (or something similar).

The next tour to England (1905), they Aussies said they were 'Coming to regain the Ashes' - and that's when the fuss really started. Ivo Bligh searched through the spare room until he found The Ashes (copyright) and did all the photo-ops, publicity etc. Then gave them to the MCC when he died.

I reckon the Ashes (symbolic only - the Urn is rubbish) is a great trophy - better than some hideous lump of tin only suitable as an outdoor pot.

 

[Gilbert_Hodge]

It adds more significance for them holding an urn that is a reminder of their cricket at its depths, a proud cricketing nation that was once humiliated by the touring antipodeans. Remembering the failures can be a massive motivator.

Certainly rather be playing for that than some manufactured waterford crystal trophy that every other series is played for.... oh wait.

I must attempt I somewhat agree with your notion in terms of a motivator. However as an Australia I would be, to some extent, embarrassed at playing for a trophey which mocks our history.

Eeerrm, is it cos we are able to laugh at ourselves, unlike some other nations that shall remain nameless eh

History and war suggests otherwise, but that's another topic.

Methinks you need to read your history a bit more.

The Ashes were set up as a Sacred Relic - wars have been fought over Sacred Relics - these are a bit of fun. It also indicated that Cricket was the ultimate example of 'Almighty England' - once the aussies proved they could match the poms, Cricket (with a capital C) was not so symbolic anymore - so 'The Body of English Cricket' was partly the aura of everything English.

The physical Ashes were actually created in Australia by a group of women at a BBQ - so 'The Ashes of English Cricket' are actually contain ashes of a stump and bails from Australia.

They were given to Ivo Bligh in 1882-83 - even though the series was drawn 2-2. He took them home and chucked them in a drawer. Forgot them

No one even mentioned The Ashes again until 20 years later when Plum Warner called his book of the 1903-04 series 'In Search of The Ashes' (or something similar).

The next tour to England (1905), they Aussies said they were 'Coming to regain the Ashes' - and that's when the fuss really started. Ivo Bligh searched through the spare room until he found The Ashes (copyright) and did all the photo-ops, publicity etc. Then gave them to the MCC when he died.

I reckon the Ashes (symbolic only - the Urn is rubbish) is a great trophy - better than some hideous lump of tin only suitable as an outdoor pot.

Yes, they were created in Sunbury. The aura surrounding the Ashes' creation has a somewhat laughable situation to accompany it. The fact that the Ashes were indeed created by Australians to symbolise the 'death' of English cricket indicates a form of practical joke on the English. Yes this trophy and competition has a wonderful history compared to other, less passionate competitions, but the questions still remains as to why the English held on to a tradition which makes a mockery of their history?

 

[Wallaby]

No, the 'Ashes' legend was created by England. A writer put a mock Death Notice in The Sporting Times after Australia beat England at the Oval in 1880, mouning the Death of English Cricket and saying 'The Body will be Cremated and the Ashes taken to Australia'. It was also meant as a compliment to Australia on winning the game.

Ivo Bligh's team went to 'get the Ashes back' - when they won the series 2-1 (the fourth test was a money-grabbing add-on), some Aust ladies created the physical Ashes and gave them to Bligh.

So while Sunbury was where the Physical Urn, bag and ashes were created, the legend of the Ashes was created in England.

 

[Dipper]

but the questions still remains as to why the English held on to a tradition which makes a mockery of their history?

Seriously the English aren't that precious when it comes to mocking our own history, self parody is a national pastime.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

It may have started as a mocking of the English (and I'm not even convinced that that is true), but that doesn't mean it's meaning is still the same over 100 years later.

I think it's a fantastic trophy, because of that history. It means so much to both teams because of that history, and despite it being only a couple of inches high, of fairly shoddy construction and rather uncertain origin it will always be far more highly prized than anything a modern marketing team can come up no matter how hard they try.

 

[hogman]

It adds more significance for them holding an urn that is a reminder of their cricket at its depths, a proud cricketing nation that was once humiliated by the touring antipodeans. Remembering the failures can be a massive motivator.

Certainly rather be playing for that than some manufactured waterford crystal trophy that every other series is played for.... oh wait.

Same goes for the Sheffield shield eh. fancy playing for a milk carton as we did for a number of years