Ashes - Your First Test Team

[Darky]

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Love/Bevan
Lehmann (don't care who you drop, this bloke should have been in for all of the last 13 years)
S.Waugh (I guess that century saved his arse)
Gilchrist
Warne
Bichel
Gillespie
McGrath
12 - B.Lee/Kremerskothen

 

[hourn]

Originally posted by Darky

12 /Kremerskothen

after seeing him in your other post i thought i'd go check him up, and the reason i've never noticed him getting big scores is because he hasn't.

He's only got 4 half centuries from nearly 40 innings without a century, but he is obvioubsly consistent with an average 33.14. Bowling he's just under a wicket a game with an average in the mid 40's.

It's a bit premature to give him a go yet, but he does have time on his side.

 

[bunsen burner]

Michael Bevan.

Here is another guy that I have to question. It's amazing how many people use their hearts rather than their heads. He's a great ODI player, maybe the greatest, but he is NOT good enough to play test cricket for Australia. The reason? He has a weakness (the short ball), and anyone who knows anything about test cricket knows that to be a test batsman, you have to be the complete package. If you have a weakness, the opposition will work it out and you will get worked out. Bevan's name would not have crossed the selectors minds for a number of years.

I'm glad some of you aren't selectors, because quite frankly, some of you don't know what you are on about. Selectors don't pick their favourite players, they pick the best players.

 

[nolsey77]

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Martyn
S.Waugh
M.Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
Bichel
Jason Gillespie ( Brad Williams)
McGrath

Hauritz (12th)

If Mark Waugh is dropped Id pick Mike Hussey, Martin Love or Jimmy Maher.

Martyn and Marky Mark change positions in the batting order.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Michael Bevan.

Here is another guy that I have to question. It's amazing how many people use their hearts rather than their heads. He's a great ODI player, maybe the greatest, but he is NOT good enough to play test cricket for Australia. The reason? He has a weakness (the short ball), and anyone who knows anything about test cricket knows that to be a test batsman, you have to be the complete package. If you have a weakness, the opposition will work it out and you will get worked out. Bevan's name would not have crossed the selectors minds for a number of years.

I'm glad some of you aren't selectors, because quite frankly, some of you don't know what you are on about. Selectors don't pick their favourite players, they pick the best players.

but bevan is very good against spin, and deserves to be in at least the squad when touring the sub continent, especially where the pitches dont bounce and you have the likes of mohammad sami, or some no name indian opening the attack. 80% of overs are spin.

he should not be picked for games on austalian, english or carribean soil though.

 

[dr nick]

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
M Waugh
S Waugh
Lehmann
Gilchrist
Warne
Bichel
Gillespie / (Lee)
McGrath.

 

[bunsen burner]

Let's have a look at this rationally (from the selectors eyes.

1. Hayden
2. Langer

Very succussful opening pair. They wouldn't even be considered changing.

3. Ponting.

Hardest position to play, and hardest player to find. They may have tossed up moving him, but I would say it would have been dismissed pretty quickly.

4. Mark Waugh.

Probably the most debatable position. There are probably selectors who support him, and others who don't. Some will want him to last the ashes because he has a good ashes record, and some will want to blood someone else ASAP.

Lehmann is the obvious. But there are 2 problems; 1) Australia is an ageing team and Lehmann is old. Might be time to get a long term prospect, 2) The selectors don't seem to like Lehmann. Lehmann has 2 things in his favour; 1) is loyal and has always performed in the baggy green, and 2) there are no youngsters that really stand out, and Lehmann just might fill in until they find the right person.

5) Steve Waugh

Plenty of debate about this one. Is a champion and deserves a good send off. His captaincy ability and recent century should enable him to play the ashes.

6) Martyn

Solid - at the moment. This will change if he fails to deliver in the ashes, but at the moment he is safe. I would say that they will discuss him moving up the order if Mark Waugh is dropped. Has the best technique in the team.

7) Gilchrist

It might be mentioned if he gets a promotion up the order, but I think this will be dismissed. The way he plays the game is perfect for a #7. If we already have a big score, he can play his natural game and score runs quickly without worrying too much whether he gets out. If it isn't broken, why fix it?

8) Warne

Safe as houses

9) Lee

Will come under tough scrutiny. His form is against him. Also Bichel's form was impressive recently. They night opt to give him a rest hoping he will come back better. The fact that the Ashes are on bouncy Aussie oitches might save him. They might give him a go at the SCG before they make a proper judgement.

10) Gillespie

If fit, his place isn't in doubt

11) McGrath

Safe as houses.



So, realistically, the only places up for grabs are mark Waugh's, Brett Lee's, and Steve Waugh's. All these people talking about Elliott, Bevan, and Watson (to a lesser degree) are being ridiculous.

 

[Dogwatcher]

Here's one out of left field for you. Ben Johnston from SA.
No he's not a popular name, but maybe if he lived elsewhere he'd have a shot.
Finished last season in excellent form and started off this season well. A run glut over the next month when SA play four shield matches could throw his name before the selectors - as it did for Blewett all those years ago.
His form strike, with M. Waugh and S. Waugh, on the brink either during the season or at completion, stands him in good stead.
The fact that SA don't play hte Poms in a first class match does, however, go against him.
But... is he up to it tempermentally? I'm not sure, other more informed people may be able to answer that for me.
I'm not suggesting he's an automatic inclusion, as there are some reasonable names ahead of him, but he's a roughie - especially, maybe this is just paranoia, if he played for another state.
As for the arguement that Elliot deserves another shot - stop dreaming. His form is terrible and stories surrounding his rleationship with other players in the team suggest even more so that he is not a chance - too introverted from what I've read.

 

[bunsen burner]

What has everyone got against Martyn? The guy averages 50 odd and is pretty safe in the team at the moment.

 

[Dogwatcher]

I totally agree with you on Martyn Bunsen, great player and a great fielder. Future Australian leader.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Dogwatcher
But... is he up to it tempermentally? I'm not sure, other more informed people may be able to answer that for me.

Ben Johnson in my opinion is not up to test level in fact no where near.

He is a solid shield player who did do very well last year but before that was sturggling to even hold his place in the side.

His technique is not overly good and plays far too much wide outside off stupp and gets caught in the slips/gully a fair bit.

Whilst he is a good player for SA - he will not make it at test level.

Anyway, if the selectors don't give Lehmann a chance, Johnson has no hope.

Its will be a crying shame if Boof dosn't get picked next even though he is 32. He has done his time, been a great team man and has kept his mouth shut when he has had much to complain about.

I think he can do what Haydyn, Langer and Martyn have done with their second or third chances.

Whislt we talk a lot about youth, you need players who have proven they can play at the hightest level. The Baggy green should not come too cheaply.

If Boof takes over from Mark - he is 5 years younger - then when S Waugh retires you can put the youngester in at six and you get a smoother transition.

For me someone like Michael Clark from NSW would be the ideal player but he needs more first class experience first.

I hope Boof makes it. To see him bat for Australia at Adelaide Oval would be just awesome.

Time that teh selectors rewarded his great play for many many yeras and his loyalty.

He has been State player of the year, three years in a row for God's sake. That means he IS the next best.

Rant over.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by nicko18


but bevan is very good against spin, and deserves to be in at least the squad when touring the sub continent, especially where the pitches dont bounce and you have the likes of mohammad sami, or some no name indian opening the attack. 80% of overs are spin.

he should not be picked for games on austalian, english or carribean soil though.

Sort of proves you don't know what you're talking about. This is an excellent cricket team, and you want to drop someone everytime we tour the sub-continent so Bevan can have a go? Sorry, doesn't work that way. In test cricket, you are either the full package, or you don't play at all - particularly during periods of strength like the Aussies are going through at the moment.

 

[bunsen burner]

Okay, so the general consensus is that the one position that is definately up for grabs is Mark Waugh's (I'm not going into the Martyn thing because regardless of what other ssay, I don't believe the selectors are even contemplating dropping him at this stage).

Out: Waugh
In: ????

Hypothetically, who should replace Mark Waugh and why? Should they slot straight into #4, or should there be a shuffle.

Candidates that have been mentioned:

Lehmann
Love
Maher
Katich
Johnson
Clarke
Hussey

I'm sure I've forgotten one or two, but I'm not even going to humour the clued-up people by naming Elliott or Bevan.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Sort of proves you don't know what you're talking about. This is an excellent cricket team, and you want to drop someone everytime we tour the sub-continent so Bevan can have a go? Sorry, doesn't work that way. In test cricket, you are either the full package, or you don't play at all - particularly during periods of strength like the Aussies are going through at the moment.

It's a valid point though. Don't forget Australia's middle order has crumbled against spin and lost us the Test tours of India in 1996, 1998 and 2001. Lehmann and Bevan are two of the best players of spin, yet neither was in the side in that 2001 series.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by DaveW


It's a valid point though. Don't forget Australia's middle order has crumbled against spin and lost us the Test tours of India in 1996, 1998 and 2001. Lehmann and Bevan are two of the best players of spin, yet neither was in the side in that 2001 series.

Who would you drop? Lehmann has a case because he is a good allround batsman. Bevan shouldn't even rate a mention.

 

[hourn]

i dont think its wise to drop players based on where you are playing. It just causes to much disruption to a team, and doubt into a players mind coming into a series where he may be in trouble because the pitches dont suit him.

Wont be good for the team in the long run.


As for positions in doubt.

Obvioubsly Mark Waugh's is in doubt, and Brett Lee's.

We everyone thinks Gillespie's spot is in no doubt is beyond me. The guy's taken 26 wickets at 42 from his last 10 test matchs. That is worse than Lee.

If Steve Waugh, Gillespie, Martyn or Lee and M. Waugh (If they're picked) have poor Ashes series though, they will be under heavy scrutiny (particuarly Lee and M. Waugh).

Hayden, Langer (although his recent form isn't to great either), Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath could have the ****test of **** ashes series and they'd still be safe for the next tour as it would be dismissed as a poor series and nothing more.

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Who would you drop? Lehmann has a case because he is a good allround batsman. Bevan shouldn't even rate a mention.

For an Indian tour, drop the third quick. Bevan's spin is useful and his obsessive fitness allows him to bowl long spells. Gets a heap of bounce because of his wristy technique and is hard to play because of the way "chinaman" turns. "chinaman" is a great weapon against left-handers too, although India don't have a heap of them, and the Indians would probably be as adept as anyone at playing them.

If his bowling was worked on, he'd be more than handy as a number 6/7/8 batsman and lighten the batting load on Gilchrist on these sub-tropical tours.

Results aren't too common in that part of the world, as they tend to rack up their 5-600(dec), so it may not be the difference between a win and a draw, but it might be the difference between a draw and a loss.

 

[GoEagles]

1. Matthew Hayden
2. Justin Langer
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Mark Waugh
5. Steve Waugh (c)
6. Damien Martyn
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Shane Warne
9. Andy Bichel
10. Jason Gillespie / Brad Williams
11. Glenn McGrath

12th Man: Brett Lee