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Ashton Agar - why?

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Yellowperil

Yellowperil

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I can't understand what the deal is here.

He's an ok bowler with some potential (got a 10 for early in the shield season), he can bat a bit (FC average of 26) and can field (took some screamers in the big bash).

Does this justify selection for this or any tour?

He's actually missed a lot of FC cricket either through injury and being in the squad. Is it better for him to be hanging around the squad, bowling in the nets instead of playing Shield?

Could his selection be purely marketing driven, his debut was a PR dream and I've seen his boyish good looks on a couple of TV ads.....

I'm not bagging him, I think he's a decent prospect but I just don't get it!
 
Potential. That is all.

Slightly better Mitch Marsh who bowls spin and is much more elegant with the bat.
 

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A bit of a nothing player these days.

Not really good enough with the bat or ball in any format but still always around the fringes because he's an "all rounder".

CA get hard-ons for guys like Agar yet pigeonhole others like James Faulkner (who has 190 FC wickets @ 25 and has dragged his batting average up into the 30s and now has 2 100s and 15 50s) as limited overs only.

Assuming Agar is a test player in 1/2/5 years time - what is he? Does he replace Lyon and bat at 8? Is he a Maxwell who bats at 6 and can bowl spin?
 
Yellowperil said:
(got a 10 for early in the shield season)
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What some overlook is that this is pretty much the only time Agar has taken wickets in the Shield over the past two Shield seasons.

Agar took 31 wickets in 2014/15 (9 matches, 318.1 overs, 30.48 average, 61.58 strike rate, 2.97 economy rate), showing good signs, but those numbers were skewed heavily by one big match against bottom-of-the-table South Australia on a turning Glenelg wicket, where he took 10/214 off 69.5 overs. Take that match out, and his figures for the year (34.81 average, 70.95 strike rate, 2.94 economy rate) weren't really that impressive.

He was rubbish last year in the Shield (7 matches, 220 overs, 76.87 average, 146.67 strike rate, 3.15 economy rate, conjuring bad memories of Aaron Heal), and his record this year (4 matches, 143 overs, 27.81 average, 53.63 strike rate, 3.11 economy rate) is also skewed by that big performance on a raging SCG turner (10/141 off 50.3 overs). Again, take that match out as well, and his figures (50.67 average, 92.50 strike rate, 3.29 economy rate) so far this year are pretty poor too.

Agar obviously shows signs of brilliance in favourable conditions, but I still think he's another two or three good, consistent full seasons away from being a proper regular Test option, and that's fine at his age (turned 23 in October). Just don't think we need to be pushing him before his time, when he really hasn't produced all that much in the Shield over the last couple of summers (11 matches, 363 overs, 45.48 average, 87.12 strike rate, 3.13 economy rate combined from 2015-16 and 2016-17 so far, heavily skewed by that one SCG 10-fer a couple of months back). His batting does him a lot of favours, because without it (and the perception that he's an all-rounder) there's no reason he should be in or around the Test team right now, based on his domestic record and recent form.
 
Agar needs to play more games on pitches that take some spin better than the WACA. If he really wants to get into the team he needs more performances to hang his hat on. It's pretty hard to judge his form as he has wickets in spun friendly conditions, but also poor average which could be caused from his majority of games on pace friendly decks.

He would walk into the SA or Tassie team. I think they should try and recruit him cos it would be a good opportunities for him to showcase his skills better... No idea what his contract status is or how player movement even works in shield cricket but in theory it's an idea to consider.
 

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Carlos Danger said:
He would walk into the SA or Tassie team. I think they should try and recruit him cos it would be a good opportunities for him to showcase his skills better... No idea what his contract status is or how player movement even works in shield cricket but in theory it's an idea to consider.
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His brother is in the SA squad too (fast bowler). Not sure that Ashton necessarily gets a game ahead of Adam Zampa though, considering the difference in recent form, and that Zampa is finally now taking wickets in the Shield. SA aren't going to play two spinners, given the pace bowling depth they have available (three former Test/ODI/T20I reps, plus Chadd Sayers).
 
Damon_3388 said:
His brother is in the SA squad too (fast bowler). Not sure that Ashton necessarily gets a game ahead of Adam Zampa though, considering the difference in recent form, and that Zampa is finally now taking wickets in the Shield. SA aren't going to play two spinners, given the pace bowling depth they have available (three former Test/ODI/T20I reps, plus Chadd Sayers).
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If they went for agar, they'd have to make him the allrounder sometimes & try and back in his batting. Some pitches you don't want the leg spinner as zampa can't hold the runs down.
That would make zampa the horses for courses player.
Would also give SA the opportunity to play their 4 quicks still with a decent spinning option.
Is a tough call but if zampa is not going to get it done they need to look at some options.
 
chunkychicken said:
I suspect Agar was selected to provide an additional net bowler, but also to expose him to different conditions and see how he responded. See if he could tweak the ball, control it, lock down an end, bowl a long spell, like SOK.
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To be fair he played well in the tour match so he did show he had something to offer. My issue with him is that he's an in betweener. Not good enough to be a top 6 bat, not good enough to be a front line spinner. Right now he shapes as a limited overs cricketer.
 
Carlos Danger said:
If they went for agar, they'd have to make him the allrounder sometimes & try and back in his batting. Some pitches you don't want the leg spinner as zampa can't hold the runs down.
That would make zampa the horses for courses player.
Would also give SA the opportunity to play their 4 quicks still with a decent spinning option.
Is a tough call but if zampa is not going to get it done they need to look at some options.
Click to expand...

I'm not even a fan of Zampa, but he has improved greatly in the second half of this Shield season (34.55 average, 58.30 strike rate, 3.56 economy rate in his last 5 Shield matches), and his batting is good enough to play at #7 or #8 if needed (usually bats at #7 in the Redbacks one day side). They can already do what you're proposing with Zampa if they choose, and keep the runs down with their pacemen, but they choose not to.

Bowling is the Redbacks strength. It's their batting in big matches and at crucial stages of games (looking great otherwise though) that's stopping them from winning a Shield final with the squad they have.
 

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Damon_3388 said:
I'm not even a fan of Zampa, but he has improved greatly in the second half of this Shield season (34.55 average, 58.30 strike rate, 3.56 economy rate in his last 5 Shield matches), and his batting is good enough to play at #7 or #8 if needed (usually bats at #7 in the Redbacks one day side). They can already do what you're proposing with Zampa if they choose, and keep the runs down with their pacemen, but they choose not to.

Bowling is the Redbacks strength. It's their batting in big matches and at crucial stages of games (looking great otherwise though) that's stopping them from winning a Shield final with the squad they have.
Click to expand...

Lol at thinking Zampa is test quality he's got 2/200 in the Shield final for crying out loud! Rubbish red ball bowler.
 
Damon_3388 said:
I'm not even a fan of Zampa, but he has improved greatly in the second half of this Shield season (34.55 average, 58.30 strike rate, 3.56 economy rate in his last 5 Shield matches), and his batting is good enough to play at #7 or #8 if needed (usually bats at #7 in the Redbacks one day side). They can already do what you're proposing with Zampa if they choose, and keep the runs down with their pacemen, but they choose not to.

Bowling is the Redbacks strength. It's their batting in big matches and at crucial stages of games (looking great otherwise though) that's stopping them from winning a Shield final with the squad they have.
Click to expand...
Absolutely he is greatly improved, but I think he lacks the control to keep an end tight & he doesn't spin it enough to get batsmen out that aren't attacking him.

Full.credit to SA for developing him. But if they want to win the shield he's probably not the spinner we need.

His batting is starting to come back, I get the feeling that he struggled with it after the Hughes incident, took Cooper a year to get his batting back seems to have taken zampa longer. Needs to average more, but he's susceptible to the really fast stuff esp short pitches

Anyway this is an Agar thread so I'll stop talking about zampa.

If I was in charge of SA I think agar would add to the team & if it helped him develop his spinners further then good for Aussie cricket as well
 
JG22 said:
His batting may look nice but an average of 26 at shield level is terrible.

Cummins, Starc, Pattinson can bat better than him.
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No they can't.

Cummins especially.
 
JG22 said:
Did you watch him through the big bash? The kids advanced his batting game.
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The ****ing Big Bash now.

Pat Cummins is a good batsmen for a bowler.
He is nowhere near Agar.

Starc has good results so far but his batting is alsi overrated.

James Pattinson however has the technique and ability to average 30 in test cricket l.
 

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