Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Total Power]

"There is no need to believe in an evidence-free claim about some weirdo entity"

There's a fair bit of truth there. It is weird, definitely. But what happens if you have experienced it? What happens if you know it is irrational, but you have had some connection? Do you try to deny it, or do you reach for the books of your people who have been trying to explain similar experiences over the last 5000 years?

Depends what this experience is. Does God give me access to verifiable information I couldn't have known before hand? This would help at least show me that it is not just a hallucination.

Personal experiences of 'god' are different among believers, since they dont all share the same god or religious beleifs. The prerequisite of being able to identify what 'god' is has not been met. There isn’t a consistent o agreed upon definition of 'god'.

Using the same methodology (interpreting an experience through a religious lens and attributing the experience to that religion's god) consistently gives disparate and contradictory results.(depending on what kind of you believe in). Buddhists for example never experience God, despite being spiritual. Why? How does that demonstrate anything?

Does God give me testable evidence of their existence or just talk to me. Just talking to me would be the least convincing evidence.

I can confidently say that none of the religious experiences that other people have described to me would convince me if they happened to me, because they have all been astoundingly vague (hearing a voice, most commonly, or an emotional experience, or some coincidence, etc).

For every person worldwide to suddenly and completely believe in one god and one religion, with a clear, concise and consistent message.So, you know, the very opposite of what religions actually are.

This is why i am not religious, cause it's not an argument i am gonna win, cause i surely cannot prove there is no Jesus but i can prove the absurdities in the Bible as it's was written by man, under no divine influence. Other would a divine being ask me to love him first? hate atheists for making a conscious choice? have slaves? treat women like objects? think not.

I'd be inclined to believe the Bible if it wasn't so clearly full of mythical stories. Freezing the sun in place (not earth because ancient people didn't know the earth revolves around the sun), a worldwide flood (no such flood happened), the creation of Adam and Eve from dust (they actually evolved from ancient apes).

 

[peetoo]

Yes. But I disagree with your premise that they are not about spirituality. The rituals are triggers to encourage a person to explore spirituality

Bones and blood?

 

[peetoo]

It's rather self-aggrandizing to assume us humans have discovered the metaphysical secrets of the universe, and it conveniently happens to be one of our most popular faiths. Perhaps one of our ancient long-dead religions was correct. Perhaps we will only discover the correct religion in ten thousand years. More likely, we haven't stumbled on the right one, and we never will.

The concept of creator has changed, from the earlier times. The concept of personal god was alien to human beings before the Abrahamic religions came by. That's why older religions still worship the forces of nature, it's kind of pantheism. The concept of personal God came with Judaism.

what you're asking is, "could god himself convince you of god?" The question itself is very silly and ironic at the same time." i felt god in my heart," or, "i felt god's presence," or worst of all hear voices are simply credulous and/or ignorant of their own psychology.

Oder religions just have more marketable superstitions than the old ones. Still superstititions.

 

[western royboy]

Oder religions just have more marketable superstitions than the old ones. Still superstititions.

But the newer ones have better music?

 

[carltonchelsea]

How is the atheism going these days? Is it about a rejection of the literal interpretation of the bible, or religious dogma, or a complete denial of the possibility of a creator?

Provide evidence for the possibility or there’s nothing to even discuss, Yahweh is a s**t god anyways, the useless son of Elohim!

 

[Chief]

"There is no need to believe in an evidence-free claim about some weirdo entity"

There's a fair bit of truth there. It is weird, definitely. But what happens if you have experienced it? What happens if you know it is irrational, but you have had some connection? Do you try to deny it, or do you reach for the books of your people who have been trying to explain similar experiences over the last 5000 years?

That kind of wipes out all the scientific advancement that has happened since these books were written/rewritten/lost/rediscovered/edited.

'God spot' researchers see the light in MRI study | Medical research | The Guardian

<p>Brain scans of nuns have revealed intricate neural circuits that flicker into life when they feel the presence of God.</p>

amp.theguardian.com

 

[evolved2]

How is the atheism going these days? Is it about a rejection of the literal interpretation of the bible, or religious dogma, or a complete denial of the possibility of a creator?

None of the above.

The god hypothesis has no supporting evidence, provides no explanatory power, is best understood through psychology and sociology, and just isn't particularly important to me.

Why would I need biblegod in my life even if he/it is real? I can get relationships and love from real people, I can find wisdom and explanations that make sense of the world around me through science and philosophy, and aspects of spirituality can be found in nature: walking along a beach or performing yoga on a mountain (something I haven't done personally) offer as much or more spirituality than you'll find in the bible.

There's nothing about 'god' that appeals to me. He seems like a s**t bloke tbh.

 

[Engimal v3]

"There is no need to believe in an evidence-free claim about some weirdo entity"

There's a fair bit of truth there. It is weird, definitely. But what happens if you have experienced it? What happens if you know it is irrational, but you have had some connection? Do you try to deny it, or do you reach for the books of your people who have been trying to explain similar experiences over the last 5000 years?

If that gives you purpose, go for it. I think it's a nice ability to be able to believe in a higher power, an afterlife, etc.

Truly and honestly, I can't wrap my head around it. Nothing short of God or Jesus presenting themselves before me could make me believe.

 

[carltonchelsea]

Depends what this experience is. Does God give me access to verifiable information I couldn't have known before hand? This would help at least show me that it is not just a hallucination.

Personal experiences of 'god' are different among believers, since they dont all share the same god or religious beleifs. The prerequisite of being able to identify what 'god' is has not been met. There isn’t a consistent o agreed upon definition of 'god'.

Using the same methodology (interpreting an experience through a religious lens and attributing the experience to that religion's god) consistently gives disparate and contradictory results.(depending on what kind of you believe in). Buddhists for example never experience God, despite being spiritual. Why? How does that demonstrate anything?

Does God give me testable evidence of their existence or just talk to me. Just talking to me would be the least convincing evidence.

I can confidently say that none of the religious experiences that other people have described to me would convince me if they happened to me, because they have all been astoundingly vague (hearing a voice, most commonly, or an emotional experience, or some coincidence, etc).

For every person worldwide to suddenly and completely believe in one god and one religion, with a clear, concise and consistent message.So, you know, the very opposite of what religions actually are.

This is why i am not religious, cause it's not an argument i am gonna win, cause i surely cannot prove there is no Jesus but i can prove the absurdities in the Bible as it's was written by man, under no divine influence. Other would a divine being ask me to love him first? hate atheists for making a conscious choice? have slaves? treat women like objects? think not.

I'd be inclined to believe the Bible if it wasn't so clearly full of mythical stories. Freezing the sun in place (not earth because ancient people didn't know the earth revolves around the sun), a worldwide flood (no such flood happened), the creation of Adam and Eve from dust (they actually evolved from ancient apes).

Only issue, we are still apes, Homo-Sapiens, us, are apes, I know you know this, but it must be clarified constantly for the “special” people, that “believe”(lol) they were specially created by their special creator.
We are still yet to find a biological mass on this planet that we don’t share RNA/DNA with.
That’s what blows my mind the most, that there are still those that actively deny how brilliant it is to be related to every organism on this very very lucky little nothing planet, with a nothing star in a nothing galaxy in a universe that is most likely infinite, pulsating, expanding faster than light and vibrating like a guitar string.
It’s fully Lebo

 

[travelli]

Depends what this experience is. Does God give me access to verifiable information I couldn't have known before hand? This would help at least show me that it is not just a hallucination.

Personal experiences of 'god' are different among believers, since they dont all share the same god or religious beleifs. The prerequisite of being able to identify what 'god' is has not been met. There isn’t a consistent o agreed upon definition of 'god'.

Using the same methodology (interpreting an experience through a religious lens and attributing the experience to that religion's god) consistently gives disparate and contradictory results.(depending on what kind of you believe in). Buddhists for example never experience God, despite being spiritual. Why? How does that demonstrate anything?

Does God give me testable evidence of their existence or just talk to me. Just talking to me would be the least convincing evidence.

I can confidently say that none of the religious experiences that other people have described to me would convince me if they happened to me, because they have all been astoundingly vague (hearing a voice, most commonly, or an emotional experience, or some coincidence, etc).

For every person worldwide to suddenly and completely believe in one god and one religion, with a clear, concise and consistent message.So, you know, the very opposite of what religions actually are.

This is why i am not religious, cause it's not an argument i am gonna win, cause i surely cannot prove there is no Jesus but i can prove the absurdities in the Bible as it's was written by man, under no divine influence. Other would a divine being ask me to love him first? hate atheists for making a conscious choice? have slaves? treat women like objects? think not.

I'd be inclined to believe the Bible if it wasn't so clearly full of mythical stories. Freezing the sun in place (not earth because ancient people didn't know the earth revolves around the sun), a worldwide flood (no such flood happened), the creation of Adam and Eve from dust (they actually evolved from ancient apes).

Why even worry about the Bible? I'm assuming it is your cultural bias, but let it go. It's not actually that important. It's a record of people who believe in a creator trying to explain that relationship.

You mentioned Buddhist spirituality without God. What does that mean?

 

[travelli]

That kind of wipes out all the scientific advancement that has happened since these books were written/rewritten/lost/rediscovered/edited.

'God spot' researchers see the light in MRI study | Medical research | The Guardian

<p>Brain scans of nuns have revealed intricate neural circuits that flicker into life when they feel the presence of God.</p>

amp.theguardian.com

How do you understand that article? People's brains get a bit active when they reflect on significant experiences in their life?

 

[travelli]

None of the above.

The god hypothesis has no supporting evidence, provides no explanatory power, is best understood through psychology and sociology, and just isn't particularly important to me.

Why would I need biblegod in my life even if he/it is real? I can get relationships and love from real people, I can find wisdom and explanations that make sense of the world around me through science and philosophy, and aspects of spirituality can be found in nature: walking along a beach or performing yoga on a mountain (something I haven't done personally) offer as much or more spirituality than you'll find in the bible.

There's nothing about 'god' that appeals to me. He seems like a s**t bloke tbh.

Why call it a biblegod? Are you expecting something that will give all answers and accept all responsibility?

 

[travelli]

If that gives you purpose, go for it. I think it's a nice ability to be able to believe in a higher power, an afterlife, etc.

Truly and honestly, I can't wrap my head around it. Nothing short of God or Jesus presenting themselves before me could make me believe.

Does anything make sense for you?

2-4 more decades and then it's all pointless?

(pssst - go roos!)

 

[Total Power]

Why even worry about the Bible? I'm assuming it is your cultural bias, but let it go. It's not actually that important. It's a record of people who believe in a creator trying to explain that relationship.

It is important when half the worlds population believe in Abrahamic religion(s). It is important when people believe that they have a 'personal' relationship with the creator of the universe and there is heaven and hell waiting for them depending on how 'obedient' you are.

You mentioned Buddhist spirituality without God. What does that mean?

Personally, with buddhism it is up to us alone to end our suffering. We are not doomed to suffer due to original sin, our salvation is not in the hand of something we have to blindly believe in. Buddhism is not evangelical- there is no need to recruit or scare people into salvation.

There's no guilt. There's no blaming. There are no commandments, only suggestions. It's based on common sense as opposed to blind faith. We have an unlimited number of chances to better ourselves, we are not eternally damned for anything. I could keep going, but that's the gist of it. If you read Buddha's Noble eightfold path, this becomes very clear. The aim is to reduce suffering by bettering ourselves and help people out unconditionally, which is also Jesus' message but overriden by Paul and his whole salvation bullshit.

Buddha said to 'question everything, including his teachings and test them to see if they are true' as opposed to Abrahamic religions.

If you encountered people trying to indoctrinate you in Buddhism then you found the wrong people and/or those new to it.

 

[Engimal v3]

Does anything make sense for you?

2-4 more decades and then it's all pointless?

(pssst - go roos!)

Yep, then I return to the earth - like all before me and all after me. There's a beauty in that.

 

[Total Power]

Does anything make sense for you?

2-4 more decades and then it's all pointless?

(pssst - go roos!)

What is meaningful and what is meaningless? Look up on Euthyphro dilemma. It might answer your question.

You want your individual life, that of one puny human in a universe billions of light years across, quadrillions of stars full, 13.7 billion years old... to have ultimate meaning at the end of all things (which is the heat death of the universe, where by definition thermal equilibrium makes everything average out). That is ridiculous. It is a category error. It does not compute.

Your life can only have meaning at your scale. Further, your life most likely only has the meaning you give it. Why do you discard this as not valuable? Why do you want something ridiculous, thermodinamically and philisophically unnattainable and out of proportion instead? I am not scared of death and non existence, i have NOT been here except for the past 40 years and the universe will just do well without us puny humans.

Because us humans always have a sense of justice, we also tend to make an emotional appeal. Is this the end? what happens to righteous actions? what happens to Hitler etc. But the truth is the universe doesn't work this way. Much of our solar system is a cold dark place. What meaning can there to be to create such a massive galaxy with one planet bearing life? what's the purpose of the rest of it? just big hot bubbles with mountains of gas and nothing in it? For what reason? You are asking the wrong questions and answering them from your own (religious) bias. This all boils down to religion, who tells you there meaning to your existence. Hence i keep bringing up Abrahamic religions which tells you, you are eternally doomed unless you listen to me.

 

[travelli]

Yep, then I return to the earth - like all before me and all after me. There's a beauty in that.

I agree! Do you contribute in some way when you return to the earth?

 

[evolved2]

Why call it a biblegod?

All gods are invented.

The Christian god is a function of the bible. Different sects of Christianity have very different understandings of who god is and what he wants based on their interpretation of the book.

Would you agree that your understanding of god is significantly different from the stereotypical Hillsong church follower? I posit that you have invented a different version of god to theirs even though both versions are based on the same book.

Are you expecting something that will give all answers and accept all responsibility?

I don't really expect anything as such from god(s) other than they provide evidence for their existence. You would think that's a fairly simple request, no?

A god is defined primarily by their position of power, and that power could be used for good or bad. If I were to assume the existence of a god, I would also need to consider that god could be benevolent, sadistic, somewhere inbetween, or indifferent towards humanity.

My understanding based on reading the bible is that god leans towards sadism. Any parent or husband who sought to emulate biblegod's benevolent love towards humanity in their own life would be considered abusive! My understanding based on the realities of life and my level of knowledge is that god is either nonexistent or indifferent to humanity (and those two are indistinguishable in practice).

 

[Engimal v3]

I agree! Do you contribute in some way when you return to the earth?

Yeah, I will decompose and fuel fungus and other living creatures.

 

[evolved2]

Yeah, I will decompose and fuel fungus and other living creatures.

Exactly. There's too many people on this planet already and it would be horribly crowded here if we didn't die eventually. It's the price of life.

 

[Total Power]

Exactly. There's too many people on this planet already and it would be horribly crowded here if we didn't die eventually. It's the price of life.

This is what bugs me...the whole ultimate purpose bs Christians and Muslims (and Hindus too whenever I travel to India) try to preach.

No, I don't need an "ultimate" purpose. I choose my own purpose and if I don't like it, I choose another one or no purpose if I don't feel like it for the time being. I'm not a bloody slave. At least I do not have to hate on some people for their sexual orientations or force my gender norms on others because what those people are doing isn't one of the "good purpose".

No, I don't know or need to know "ultimate" truth. I'm doing just fine with whatever little truths I perceive. Atleast I'm not going out of my way, inventing stories, misinterpreting evidence or adding post hoc justifications to go against a huge body of knowledge that best of us have accumulated so far just because what we found was incongruent with some ancient book.

Existence itself is a paradox but us humans aren't the ONLY ones existing. Besides, is having an objective purpose really that great? Every year in November in Europe and December in the UK, millions of turkeys are brought into existence for a purpose, and their lives form a part of the plans of a higher power, for us to eat and poop them out? Is it a part of the grand plan??? But they talk about human existence only, as if we are alone in this planet with a brain?

 

[Markfs]

This thread popped up this morning. It brought back fond memories of people endlessly posting words. I hope everyone is living a good life and not bombing anyone....

 

[Vdubs]

This thread popped up this morning. It brought back fond memories of people endlessly posting words. I hope everyone is living a good life and not bombing anyone....

Agreed. Weird. Just popped up on my radar too. A very twisted thread that was born out of "Ask A Christian". Clearly meant to be a very short-lived thread, as who is going to ask an atheist anything outside of footy. Anyway, that'll do for 2024.

 

[Markfs]

Agreed. Weird. Just popped up on my radar too. A very twisted thread that was born out of "Ask A Christian". Clearly meant to be a very short-lived thread, as who is going to ask an atheist anything outside of footy. Anyway, that'll do for 2024.

some people have a longterm need to post in this thread, whatever its name, for their mental health.... it serves a purpose...much like organised religion.

i rediscovered my religion on 30th Sept last year. The sky opened up and I was bathed in a stream of light. The secrets of happiness were revealed to me and I was filled with a warm glow. I now know what st. paul was talking about. I have been posting everyone who I know about the good news, and have been encouraging them to buy memberships.