Analysis Back to Basics

[RobsJourney]

* Possibly too similar to other conversations, merge or close if you like. Otherwise discuss. *


I'm not gonna harp on about bad recruiting and bad coaches.
We could recruit better, yes, and I'd love some new recruiters myself. We might just be unlucky and other clubs get players earlier than we'd thought so we miss out. WE don't know what goes on.
And, I could personally say I'm not a fan of Lade and why the hell did he coach in NAB... But, I don't know him. I would love some new guys in there though.


BUT- Our problem is simple to fix.

no more Vlastuin in the backline.
no more trying to turn Jack into an athletic forward who roams the ground.
no more making Chaplin/Morris a forward.
no more making Dusty a half-back.
no more playing Lennon in the 2s. He's the kind of kid who needs to develop in the 1s. A good coach should bloody see that about him.
no more playing ANYONE in the backline to "learn defensive side of their game" for example Corey Ellis at the present time.

just....no more F*****G around !!

Since 2013 we have stuffed around SO damn much - ffs we can't even name our teamsheet properly without having players named all over the place - and it's really stunted growth of players and made the whole steam stagnate. Other teams have gone past us because they don't stuff around. They play their players where they belong and play natural football.
What's the point of having a bloke like Corey Ellis learn to play backline when he is a midfielder. Get the best of him from day one and slap him in the midfield.

So back to basics.
No more playing players out of position to "teach them", it's stunting their development.
You put your best players on the park in their position and then coach to those strengths.

Do that, watch the development improve dramatically and watch the natural flair return to the side.

Simple.

 

[Stigmata]

Sticking tackles would be good

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Learning to kick a footy properly would also be a good place to start.

 

[TigerImposter]

Having a coach would be first base

 

[Ralll]

* Possibly too similar to other conversations, merge or close if you like. Otherwise discuss. *


I'm not gonna harp on about bad recruiting and bad coaches.
We could recruit better, yes, and I'd love some new recruiters myself. We might just be unlucky and other clubs get players earlier than we'd thought so we miss out. WE don't know what goes on.
And, I could personally say I'm not a fan of Lade and why the hell did he coach in NAB... But, I don't know him. I would love some new guys in there though.


BUT- Our problem is simple to fix.

no more Vlastuin in the backline.
no more trying to turn Jack into an athletic forward who roams the ground.
no more making Chaplin/Morris a forward.
no more making Dusty a half-back.
no more playing Lennon in the 2s. He's the kind of kid who needs to develop in the 1s. A good coach should bloody see that about him.
no more playing ANYONE in the backline to "learn defensive side of their game" for example Corey Ellis at the present time.

just....no more F*****G around !!

Since 2013 we have stuffed around SO damn much - ffs we can't even name our teamsheet properly without having players named all over the place - and it's really stunted growth of players and made the whole steam stagnate. Other teams have gone past us because they don't stuff around. They play their players where they belong and play natural football.
What's the point of having a bloke like Corey Ellis learn to play backline when he is a midfielder. Get the best of him from day one and slap him in the midfield.

So back to basics.
No more playing players out of position to "teach them", it's stunting their development.
You put your best players on the park in their position and then coach to those strengths.

Do that, watch the development improve dramatically and watch the natural flair return to the side.

Simple.

Yep, I agree with this.

Its no wonder we dont have any natural flair, run or intensity when a portion of the team is in positions they're still trying to learn but have no future in anyway...

Although I like what we have done with Jack, just let him run free around HF and get involved as much as possible, he will still kick his 50+.

 

[NaturalDisaster]

I don't think there's anything wrong with experimenting with players at different positions, my problem is that when it doesn't work, he continues doing it anyway... That and there's a time and place for it.. Should only be done during NAB cup games or if we are wining comfortably.

 

[CoggaRules]

BUT- Our problem is simple to fix.

no more Vlastuin in the backline.
no more trying to turn Jack into an athletic forward who roams the ground.
no more making Chaplin/Morris a forward.
no more making Dusty a half-back.
no more playing Lennon in the 2s. He's the kind of kid who needs to develop in the 1s. A good coach should bloody see that about him.
no more playing ANYONE in the backline to "learn defensive side of their game" for example Corey Ellis at the present time.

just....no more F*****G around !!

 

[brett_warne]

It drives me ******* mad. I get you need some flexibility in the middle but let the forwards kick goals. And guess what, the rest of the league is using a forward press, how about tying it you may find it is harder to get out of our forward line. And if you think having 45 inside 50 and 350 - 400 positions is going to win you games you are *****. It's no wonder we turn the ball over so much we **** around with it so much the oppositions has so much time to man up. Get the ball and spread hard if you have 2 or 3 options to kick to, watch how much better our kicking becomes. And by the way, tackling is important.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[RunningBounce]

I agree to some extent that players out of position is part of our problem.

BUT, I'd challenge any supporter to go to shut their eyes for the centre bounce, and then say who is playing HBF, who is playing midfield and who is playing HFF. I'd struggle to identify which parts of last week's game Vlastuin, or CEllis, were playing HBF rather than in the midfield. It doesn't make a huge difference, in most cases, whether Player X spends 55% of game time in the defensive end compared to 45%.

(Notable exceptions - Morris forward. BEllis back.)

What does make a difference is turning up to play. There were 12 to 15 bludging slugs in the Port game. Zero in the Hawthorn game. Professional athletes they may be, but everyone has a day at work when they just don't feel enthusiastic. Minimising the bludging slug count should be one of the "back to basics" KPI's at the end of the day within the four walls of our ball club.

 

[wart101]

Having a coach would be first base

dude if you need a coach for first base you have serious issues.

 

[TigerImposter]

dude if you need a coach for first base you have serious issues.

You have lost me great warrior

 

[wart101]

You have lost me great warrior

haha

 

[docko911]

Funnily enough Matty Knights old gameplan at Essendon would probably be ideal to beat the forward pressure.

All out attack and straight down the guts. It's the quickest way to get over the press.

Kicking long to the boundary from a kick-in is a gift for the forward press.

You pretty much have to be prepared to gamble which is something Hardwick won't do. We should though and use our defensive strengths.

It's simple move the ball out of the backline with speed, taking risks and hitting the middle. Ensure defenders that aren't involved in the play hold their positions in preparation for a turnover. If we turn it over we are more prepared to win it back and attempt to break the press again.

We need to gamble that the 8-12 players moving the ball forward beat the other team and score but not move the entire team forward in case of a turnover. We almost need to play it in a similar style to how the team list looks on paper, slightly more defensive.

 

[TigerImposter]

Funnily enough Matty Knights old gameplan at Essendon would probably be ideal to beat the forward pressure.

All out attack and straight down the guts. It's the quickest way to get over the press.

Kicking long to the boundary from a kick-in is a gift for the forward press.

You pretty much have to be prepared to gamble which is something Hardwick won't do. We should though and use our defensive strengths.

It's simple move the ball out of the backline with speed, taking risks and hitting the middle. Ensure defenders that aren't involved in the play hold their positions in preparation for a turnover. If we turn it over we are more prepared to win it back and attempt to break the press again.

We need to gamble that the 8-12 players moving the ball forward beat the other team and score but not move the entire team forward in case of a turnover. We almost need to play it in a similar style to how the team list looks on paper, slightly more defensive.

As long as Houli doesn't kick out.
Still with what you're suggesting you require excellent talls generally a ruck would help which we don't have. Apart from Jack and Rance our talls are pathetic which makes it hard to run a shortest home attack. Also our small men such as Houli Morris Batch etc are poorly skilled so turnovers will still be great under this pressure
The other area of weakness in DH coached sides is TACKLING or a lack of it. This makes it impossible to lock the ball in and maintain possession .our guys are so malnourished looking and lacking in strength compared to opposition sides I don't see a simple short term solution

 

[Tony Stark]

As long as Houli doesn't kick out.
Still with what you're suggesting you require excellent talls generally a ruck would help which we don't have. Apart from Jack and Rance our talls are pathetic which makes it hard to run a shortest home attack. Also our small men such as Houli Morris Batch etc are poorly skilled so turnovers will still be great under this pressure
The other area of weakness in DH coached sides is TACKLING or a lack of it. This makes it impossible to lock the ball in and maintain possession .our guys are so malnourished looking and lacking in strength compared to opposition sides I don't see a simple short term solution

Think its been brought up before but our tackling method (except Rioli) is terrible, more missed tackles than any other team i would imagine. So my question is would it not be an idea to bring in a defensive coach from say the Melbourne Storm and fix this problem once and for all. Its obvious whoever is training the side in this area of the game is simply not doing their job or not qualified. All other teams have improved in this area except us.

Sick of seeing other teams break tackles regularly, its like watching the Roadrunner and us being Wile E. Coyote just scratching our head and wondering how they got away when its simply dumb execution on our behalf.

 

[RunningBounce]

Think its been brought up before but our tackling method (except Rioli) is terrible, more missed tackles than any other team i would imagine. So my question is would it not be an idea to bring in a defensive coach from say the Melbourne Storm and fix this problem once and for all. Its obvious whoever is training the side in this area of the game is simply not doing their job or not qualified. All other teams have improved in this area except us.

Sick of seeing other teams break tackles regularly, its like watching the Roadrunner and us being Wile E. Coyote just scratching our head and wondering how they got away when its simply dumb execution on our behalf.

I grew up in a rugby league area. I remember Laurie Daley coming to my school for a footy clinic and showing us how to tackle. (He really does have a massive nose.) They just do it differently. They know how to 1) hit the tackle so it hurts, and 2) bring a bigger, stronger player to ground.

Our Tigers rarely knock the stuffing out of the opposition, and rarely bring the opposition ball carrier to ground.

There was a bullshit analysis in the media this week about how Richmond suck at tackling because we are the only team that hasn’t had a player rack up 10 tackles in one game this season. They keep looking for a stat to quantify what we can all see – the Tigers don’t tackle as well as other teams. I genuinely believe this is a coaching decision to corral in preference over tackling. It has worked the past 3 seasons, so I won’t rubbish the decision, but a big tackle turns the tide of a game like a specky.

Better technique just could not be a bad thing. Cameron Smith, one of the best tacklers you’ll see, works across the road. Maybe some assistance on technique would help our minimal number of tackles have more impact on the momentum of the game.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

The "defensive side of the game thing" is the most frustrating. If they spend the entire season playing in the backline (like Vlastuin has in recent years) they will learn how to defend against forward flankers and their running patterns, but that's it. They aren't learning how to defend in the guts. They aren't learning how to block and shepherd for Cotchin and they aren't learning how to nullify an opponent at a stoppage. When they come back into the centre they've got no idea and Cotchin gets manhandled by taggers.

The other frustrating thing is moving players to positions that don't suit their skill set. To play half back ideally you are a quick runner with a long raking kick. Vlastuin is a good kick, but he isn't a particularly long. He doesn't kick 50-60m bullet passes that set up attacks. He's not overly quick but he is a contested gun. That all points to playing him as an inside mid, but for some reason Dimma chucks him in a position that doesn't suit.

Martin is similar. A clearance gun who can kick a goal, has a very long penetrating kick, but his kicking is inconsistent and he is prone to turning it over. Absolutely staggering that Dimma tried to turn him into a half back at the start of 2014, a position where his goalkicking and contested work are a non-factor and his turnovers can be exposed.

The obsession with having a small forward that provides us with defensive pressure was a disaster too. I don't care how well Morris tackles, you can't carry a guy in you forward line for half a season when he's picking up 8 disposals and 0.3 goals a game.

Jack is another one. He's not overly quick and he's not overly athletic. He's never gonna run his opponents into the ground like Richo or Nick Riewoldt. He hasn't got the size to manhandle his opponents in contests like Cloke or Jonathon Brown. His strengths lie in his incredible smarts and abililty to read the ball, his ability to be dangerous on when the ball hits the ground and his accurate kicking. If you make him run all over the ground it tires him out and effects his kicking. Compared to other key forwards he should be spending more time inside and around the 50, but Dimma is obsessed with turning him into an athletic key forward. Only problem is he's not athlete. Having said all this, I'm still happy with how Jack's going.

Deledio is the only player on our list that can be played anywhere and perform to his best. Everyone else needs to be played in position.

The following should not change for the rest of the year:
-Vlastuin in the guts
-Martin as a midfielder who rests forward
-Edwards mainly as a small forward who pinch hits in the middle
-McIntosh on the wing
-Lennon up forward or in the reserves
-Morris in the backline or in the reserves
-Chaplin in the backline or in the reserves
-Grigg either on the wing or as a tagger (or in the ruck)

 

[TheDarkKnighta]

The "defensive side of the game thing" is the most frustrating. If they spend the entire season playing in the backline (like Vlastuin has in recent years) they will learn how to defend against forward flankers and their running patterns, but that's it. They aren't learning how to defend in the guts. They aren't learning how to block and shepherd for Cotchin and they aren't learning how to nullify an opponent at a stoppage. When they come back into the centre they've got no idea and Cotchin gets manhandled by taggers.

Thoroughly agree. Teach a defensive side in practice and training drills; not during a game worth 4 points. We don't have the luxury of depth to cover such "experiments" or "learning experiences".

 

[CoggaRules]

dude if you need a coach for first base you have serious issues.

naa man whats on first and who is on second and I dont know is on third

 

[Tetley Tigers]

Kick it long to Royce I say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[partycorolla]

Thoroughly agree. Teach a defensive side in practice and training drills; not during a game worth 4 points. We don't have the luxury of depth to cover such "experiments" or "learning experiences".

Or in the VFL.... that's what the team was brought in for.

 

[Bojangles17]

As long as Houli doesn't kick out.
Still with what you're suggesting you require excellent talls generally a ruck would help which we don't have. Apart from Jack and Rance our talls are pathetic which makes it hard to run a shortest home attack. Also our small men such as Houli Morris Batch etc are poorly skilled so turnovers will still be great under this pressure
The other area of weakness in DH coached sides is TACKLING or a lack of it. This makes it impossible to lock the ball in and maintain possession .our guys are so malnourished looking and lacking in strength compared to opposition sides I don't see a simple short term solution

That would be guaranteed , Knights never played him

 

[theyellowsash]

I grew up in a rugby league area. I remember Laurie Daley coming to my school for a footy clinic and showing us how to tackle. (He really does have a massive nose.) They just do it differently. They know how to 1) hit the tackle so it hurts, and 2) bring a bigger, stronger player to ground.

Our Tigers rarely knock the stuffing out of the opposition, and rarely bring the opposition ball carrier to ground.

There was a bullshit analysis in the media this week about how Richmond suck at tackling because we are the only team that hasn’t had a player rack up 10 tackles in one game this season. They keep looking for a stat to quantify what we can all see – the Tigers don’t tackle as well as other teams. I genuinely believe this is a coaching decision to corral in preference over tackling. It has worked the past 3 seasons, so I won’t rubbish the decision, but a big tackle turns the tide of a game like a specky.

Better technique just could not be a bad thing. Cameron Smith, one of the best tacklers you’ll see, works across the road. Maybe some assistance on technique would help our minimal number of tackles have more impact on the momentum of the game.

That article was pretty dumb tbh. I don't care if no player has had 10 tackles if every player is above average. In other words more players tackling rather than 1 player having to do it so much. It also used us losing the count by 2 to the hawks as an example of us being bad tacklers, even though both teams had above average anyway.

Not saying we are good at it, but it's an overrated stat.