Ballantyne

[Boppo]

I'm with you on this Wiz. Ballantyne has been a shadow of his former dangerous self in recent weeks. Even against Sydney some of his goals were gimmes. Effort is there but scoreboard hurt either directly or indirectly is way down.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

The similarities between Medhurst and Ballantyne are uncanny:

- both kicked mega goals in the WAFL
- both fronting a midfield who cannot get the ball let alone deliver it into the forward line
- now being touted as possible midfielders.

Both are talented, mercurial players who need a decent key forward and some semblance of forward structure.

Whereas our forward structure has gone to the sheissenhouse because our midfield is getting hammered.

 

[strobe00]

The similarities between Medhurst and Ballantyne are uncanny:

- both kicked mega goals in the WAFL
- both fronting a midfield who cannot get the ball let alone deliver it into the forward line
- now being touted as possible midfielders.

Both are talented, mercurial players who need a decent key forward and some semblance of forward structure.

Whereas our forward structure has gone to the sheissenhouse because our midfield is getting hammered.

Spot on. Am really happy that we have Balla rather than the equivalent aged Medders, as Balla has a much greater capacity to contribute in the midfield and adds a hell of a lot more pressure.

Partly agree with the bolded. Yep, Pav has been shifted to the midfield to reduce the bleeding there. My personal preference (meaningless as it is) would have been to develop some other mids that could compete there instead of Pav. Then at least we'd have had some of that forward structure. Even with Pav in the midfield we were still often belted. At least Pav in the midfield is partly/mostly defensible. Either way, what's done is done.

But playing Mayne as a full forward in preference to Kep or JA is purely a decision made by the match committee. And playing part timers/non-contributors (to the forward line!) like Ibbo, Pearce, Crowley and JVB down there at different times suggests to me that the match committee don't rate the importance of having good forwards in the forward line very highly. Playing MJ as a CHF also suggests that they don't think we need a decent marking target at CHF either.

There were options. For whatever reason we chose to experiment with a forward line without threatening marking targets, and without genuine crumbers (I guess the two go together though). Hopefully the lack of success with it will consign it to the wastebasket for the forseeable future. With Harvs though, it's quite possible that he'll persevere with it for the rest of the season. Friggin' hope not though.

 

[Stronzo]

Medhurst?

Don't see it myself. Balla has just had the wind taken out of his sails since he missed that goal against the eagles.

Someone needs to tell him to just keep working hard and keep the shit stirring for when he's back lighting up the oval.

 

[mookieb]

Seems to run extremely fast if it looks like a handball receive is on the cards around goals. Not so much in other situations.

Saw him turn a two on two into a two on one when he simply assumed the Freo player was going to get the ball and he sprinted toward goals hoping for a cheapie.

Unfortunately for him his tactic of running up to players and hoping they push him and he gets a free kick has been totally eliminated as umpires and the opposition wise up.

Happy days really.

 

[Rob]

Strange post. One of our few players today that looked like they actually wanted to do something. Wanted to create play as opposed to blokes that just wanted to have as little to do with it as possible and sure as shit didn't want to take the responsibility of finishing it off.

 

[Belnakor]

worked hard and did his hammy pushing too hard, at least he had a dip.

 

[PapaJ]

Seems to run extremely fast if it looks like a handball receive is on the cards around goals. Not so much in other situations.

Saw him turn a two on two into a two on one when he simply assumed the Freo player was going to get the ball and he sprinted toward goals hoping for a cheapie.

Unfortunately for him his tactic of running up to players and hoping they push him and he gets a free kick has been totally eliminated as umpires and the opposition wise up.

Happy days really.

Not sure about the incident you're talking about, you may be right there. He wasn't the only player who would have looked out of sink on the night, but overall that post shows that you truly have NFI. He was playing mostly up the ground for much of the game, was probably Freo's hardest worker and was constantly left hanging with not even his team mates able to keep up with his run and carry.

BTW, congrats on the Hawks - they are looking great and I think they are genuine, you, however, are a tool.

Bloody hell, why am I even feeding this troll.

 

[mookieb]

Bit rough calling me a tool when your own supporters are calling for Pavlich's head lets not forget the venom towards Hill.

Everything I said also pail into comparison with the venom towards Mundy last year.

You bolded my statement about the two on one but didn't refute it (mid third quarter by the way).

It's also factual that he doesn't get away with his "tactic" of running up to players hoping for slight contact then falling down.

Essentially I am asking the question of whether he is selfish and the situation I saw is not the first time I have seen it. Whilst he has got on the end of handballs for goals I can't recall him giving one off.

He also tries to do too much as we saw from the three bounce incident. Which imo reflects a desire to do the flashy rather than the high percentage.

His form away from home is also far worse than at Subi when the team tends to be up and running a bit more.

There are of course worse things to be called than selfish as we can see from the Hill thread and hey Harvey's selfish and he's still a great player.

 

[PapaJ]

Bit rough calling me a tool when your own supporters are calling for Pavlich's head lets not forget the venom towards Hill.

I didn't say we don't have our share of tools too. They come out in droves after losses like that.

Everything I said also pail into comparison with the venom towards Mundy last year.

Huh? From whom? Last year Mundy was our BaF - the only venom his way would have been from the clueless.

You bolded my statement about the two on one but didn't refute it (mid third quarter by the way).

That's right, because you may well be right. It would have been one of hundreds of decisions/actions that Freo players got wrong - I don't remember every one.

It's also factual that he doesn't get away with his "tactic" of running up to players hoping for slight contact then falling down.

Factual is it? Which bit, the bit that his 'tactic' is to run up to players and hope for slight contact and then fall down. Despite the absurdity of that statement, I'll dignify it with this response:

Ultimately the umpires make a subjective call on these things and yep, he didn't get any his way tonight. Heck he (and others) didn't even get real ones let alone staged stuff (fortunately it was fairly even because Harvey missed out on a few that he's famous for too). Balla tries to draw frees, most people don't like it, it works against him as often as it works for him these days. But it's not his 'main thing' by any stretch.

Essentially I am asking the question of whether he is selfish and the situation I saw is not the first time I have seen it. Whilst he has got on the end of handballs for goals I can't recall him giving one off.

Are you? Then ask the question respectfully and listen to the answers.

Like most small fwds his job is to be a scoring threat. That means at times he has to judge when to get away from a contest to become a threat and score. He and all good fwd attacking players do it. The really good ones know when to do it and when not to. He's generally pretty good at it.

Secondly, he's given off heaps of goals. When we are actually functioning like a good football team, you see him creating many scoring opportunities for players.

He also tries to do too much as we saw from the three bounce incident. Which imo reflects a desire to do the flashy rather than the high percentage.

No wrong again. His desire was to draw players (which he did) attack and find a trailing/leading target while the fwd line was open. Nobody else worked for him and Sandi who was stuffed by then, from what I could tell made a single lead to the same pocket he was running too - not ideal. That was (one of many) examples of the team not working around him.

His form away from home is also far worse than at Subi when the team tends to be up and running a bit more.

You're right there. His away form (Melbourne especially) has been ordinary.

There are of course worse things to be called than selfish as we can see from the Hill thread and hey Harvey's selfish and he's still a great player.

Yes there is.

Don't take the 'tool' thing personally, but if you're going to come on another teams board and rip into one of it's players in a way that doesn't show much respect or knowledge and to do so after their biggest loss of the season that has killed any slim chance of finals etc. etc. ... well you're asking for it frankly.

 

[mookieb]

Nice response actually.

Sorry about the Mundy comment that was actually the year before we he was getting the bigfooty hate.

I'll continue to watch Freo's games and see how he goes. I like many others hate him for his behaviour in games ie staging for free kicks in front of goals because I feel like its a blight on the game.

To ensure my "selfish" comment wasn't too far off the mark I checked his goal assists for the last 7 games which totalled 2 which would contradict your comment that he has given off heaps. Of course Freo's form in that period has been horrible and he plays up the ground at stages, but I wouldn't find that figure acceptable.

Enough from me I just saw the incident in the game and asked the question.

 

[yakka man]

The simple fact is like a lot of our players Ballantyne has taken a step backwards this year. He is definetly a love/hate player because when he's on he's On but when he's not he is a glory hound and selfish. Ballaz and Mayne should have kicked way more goals with the opportunities they have haid both this year and last year.

We are crying out for a forward who can kick goals

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

The simple fact is like a lot of our players Ballantyne has taken a step backwards this year. He is definetly a love/hate player because when he's on he's On but when he's not he is a glory hound and selfish. Ballaz and Mayne should have kicked way more goals with the opportunities they have haid both this year and last year.

We are crying out for a forward who can kick goals

ballas good far outweighs his bad. his forward pressure is second to none and he kicks goals.... but he has also been injured virtually all year, he hasnt gone backwards, he just hasnt been able to show his wares for most of the year.

mayne has no excuse. he chases, but he drops a lot of marks, and misses more than he kicks

 

[yakka man]

ballas good far outweighs his bad. his forward pressure is second to none and he kicks goals.... but he has also been injured virtually all year, he hasnt gone backwards, he just hasnt been able to show his wares for most of the year.

mayne has no excuse. he chases, but he drops a lot of marks, and misses more than he kicks

Obviously we know Ballaz is a good player but the forward pressure that he put on last year has diminished enormously. I remember heaps of times where he would sprint and tackle and win free kicks but that has hardly happened this year. He needs to learn his limitations better. We picked him up pick 21 in the 2008 draft and that same year Jeff Garlett was picked up after we took Sibosado in the rookie draft. Garlett is two years younger and has kicked 94 goals against Ballaz 66 goals. Garlett has also laid 40 more tackles.

He belongs in the forward line. That is where he kicked 75 goals or so in the WAFL to win the Sandover Medal. Harve's plays too many of our players out of position and they suffer because of it. Next year is going to tell all about our coaching staff and players.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Obviously we know Ballaz is a good player but the forward pressure that he put on last year has diminished enormously. I remember heaps of times where he would sprint and tackle and win free kicks but that has hardly happened this year. He needs to learn his limitations better. We picked him up pick 21 in the 2008 draft and that same year Jeff Garlett was picked up after we took Sibosado in the rookie draft. Garlett is two years younger and has kicked 94 goals against Ballaz 66 goals. Garlett has also laid 40 more tackles.

He belongs in the forward line. That is where he kicked 75 goals or so in the WAFL to win the Sandover Medal. Harve's plays too many of our players out of position and they suffer because of it. Next year is going to tell all about our coaching staff and players.

garlet has averaged 1.84 goals a game, balla 1.5, but when you consider that balla has come off injured atleast 5 times, their goal outputs are about the same, and then consider that balla also spends time up the ground, i think the figures favour balla.... their tackle figures are also very similar.... and on the tackling dont forget a lot of times tackling is a team effort, last year we had mayne and deboer with their manic pressure, and often balla would end up laying the final tackle. we havent had that this year.

your right though balla should play more in the forwardline, but he has also had some games where he has carved up whilst playing up the ground... id be pointing the finger at many other players before balla. he never shows anything but 100% committment, im not sure you can say that about too many of the other boys

 

[PapaJ]

Nice response actually.

Sorry about the Mundy comment that was actually the year before we he was getting the bigfooty hate.

I'll continue to watch Freo's games and see how he goes. I like many others hate him for his behaviour in games ie staging for free kicks in front of goals because I feel like its a blight on the game.

To ensure my "selfish" comment wasn't too far off the mark I checked his goal assists for the last 7 games which totalled 2 which would contradict your comment that he has given off heaps. Of course Freo's form in that period has been horrible and he plays up the ground at stages, but I wouldn't find that figure acceptable.

Enough from me I just saw the incident in the game and asked the question.

Fair enough, but as indicated, there's a lot more to him that that incident.

As for those stats, that doesn't surprise me. As you can see around this board, a major issue for us has been converting reasonable at times play up the field with some scoreboard pressure. We've struggled all round to get a scoring system going that gives us some sort of decent "inside-50/scoring shots per possession/effort" ratio (if that makes some sense). Balla has not been our main issue in that area IMHO - except for the fact that he's been on and off injury wise all year.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Bit rough calling me a tool when your own supporters are calling for Pavlich's head lets not forget the venom towards Hill.

Everything I said also pail into comparison with the venom towards Mundy last year.

You bolded my statement about the two on one but didn't refute it (mid third quarter by the way).

It's also factual that he doesn't get away with his "tactic" of running up to players hoping for slight contact then falling down.

Essentially I am asking the question of whether he is selfish and the situation I saw is not the first time I have seen it. Whilst he has got on the end of handballs for goals I can't recall him giving one off.

He also tries to do too much as we saw from the three bounce incident. Which imo reflects a desire to do the flashy rather than the high percentage.

His form away from home is also far worse than at Subi when the team tends to be up and running a bit more.

There are of course worse things to be called than selfish as we can see from the Hill thread and hey Harvey's selfish and he's still a great player.

Ballas is probably the hardest worker in our side. If you had a clue, you'd know that.

As for the bolded bit, not at all.

 

[Rob]

The simple fact is like a lot of our players Ballantyne has taken a step backwards this year.

I wouldn't agree with that. Given the lack of service from the midfield, he's at worst been about the same as last year. If anything, he's actually shown he can be a half decent midfielder into the future.

 

[mookieb]

Iam...

Not saying he doesn't work hard.

Primarily I am saying that he looks selfish and as another Freo poster stated a "glory hound". I said this and looked through his stats afterwards, as a respondent says he gives away heaps of goals. He has had 2 goals assists in the last 7 games. Not nearly good enough in my book and would indicate my primary point about Ballantyne as being correct.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

We've barely kicked more than 2 goals in the past 7 weeks, so it's probably more an indication of the team than Ballas.

I would say being one of our hardest workers is almost the antithesis of being selfish. If you have seen our matches in the second half of the season, we have been quite poor up forward. When faced with a lack of options, any player would be within reason to try and creating something themselves.

 

[Tas]

He is a master of chaos. When the ball moves quickly forward and the defense is put under extreme pressure then he is the kind of guy who will tear a defense apart because he is great at being in the right spot for a crumb.

But, if the ball is slow to crawl its way up the ground or slow chips along the flanks only to see inaccurate kicks deep into the pockets he has no room to manoeuvre and is a poor chance of the ball spilling his way because the defenders box you in.

It is the same with all good goal sneaks, they need the play to create opportunities but you need to be able to kick the ball to the advantage of your forwards, move the ball forward quickly and execute the kicking well.

Small forwards are easy to shut down if the midfield isn't performing well.

 

[mookieb]

I would guess his scoring assists for the year would again be very low.

Being a hard worker doesn't mean your not selfish around goals.

Being a selfish player doesn't mean your not valuable to the team (Boomer Harvey).

I'll watch his games closely and see if the scoring assists are an anomaly or a trend.

 

[Rob]

Iam...

Not saying he doesn't work hard.

Primarily I am saying that he looks selfish and as another Freo poster stated a "glory hound". I said this and looked through his stats afterwards, as a respondent says he gives away heaps of goals. He has had 2 goals assists in the last 7 games. Not nearly good enough in my book and would indicate my primary point about Ballantyne as being correct.

Haters gonna hate I guess.

 

[mookieb]

Haters gonna hate I guess.

You could have posted a statistical summary showing Ballantyne being an unselfish player that contradicts his 2 goals assists in 7 games, or alternatively go with whats posted above. Might have made me look either uneducated or ill informed, instead of the other way round.

Truth be told i'm not nearly the hater that your own supporters are but please see references to the Pavlich and Hill threads for confirmation.

 

[SPEEDWAGON]

You could have posted a statistical summary showing Ballantyne being an unselfish player that contradicts his 2 goals assists in 7 games, or alternatively go with whats posted above. Might have made me look either uneducated or ill informed, instead of the other way round.

Truth be told i'm not nearly the hater that your own supporters are but please see references to the Pavlich and Hill threads for confirmation.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-fremantle-dockers?year=2011&rt=TA&st=GA

does that blow your argument away?


to me score assists are a better indicator, but they are very hard to find.


No suprise Palmer and DeBoer the poor shots at goal lead this count