battle of $600m for stadia of the future in Sydney

[Kwality]

By looking at NRL crowds Sydney does definitely NOT need two BIG Capacity Stadiums - ANZ Stadium only gets filled Once or Twice a year at the moment. If you had a 30K stadium in the West and 60K at Moore Park they would both be plenty big enough, you don't need an 83500 plus a 30000 in the West with 55,000 next to the SCG which will hold around 55000-60000 when the renovations are complete there.

soccer crowds/rectangular stadiums/ sports tourism ?

 

[Colonial]

Concerts, events, soo, bledisloe, gf's

 

[bombersfan4000]

soccer crowds/rectangular stadiums/ sports tourism ?

To
Be used at near full capacity 4 times a year. Sydney already has stadiums for that! So why need to spend a billionaire when it can be used on roads and infrastructure

 

[Land of the Giants]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...on-stadiums-announcement-20150904-gjfizy.html

I can understand upgrading Parramatta Stadium to 30,000 seats, but I can't see the point of upgrading Allianz Stadium to 55,000. It rarely gets filled at the moment with a capacity of 40,000, and 55,000 is too small to attract major events.

ANZ stadium has become a happy hunting ground for the national soccer team, so it makes sense to put a roof on it and re-configure it into a specialist rectangular ground.

Soccer will ultimately win the battle for big crowds in Sydney, given the slow decline of NRL, and the limited appeal of rugby union. As for AFL, the era of those really big 50K+ crowds in Sydney is finished. The 70K+ crowds the Swans got last decade will stand as code records in NSW for generations.

 

[Kwality]

To
Be used at near full capacity 4 times a year. Sydney already has stadiums for that! So why need to spend a billionaire when it can be used on roads and infrastructure

How often is the MCG full - at least the NSW Govt are building stadiums for the people not pumping money into a Cricket Club.

 

[Colonial]

To
Be used at near full capacity 4 times a year. Sydney already has stadiums for that! So why need to spend a billionaire when it can be used on roads and infrastructure

About the same as other states.

My taxes also go to bums who refuse to work. I sould rather the taxes go ti stadiums than loser bums who refuse to work.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

About the same as other states.

My taxes also go to bums who refuse to work. I sould rather the taxes go ti stadiums than loser bums who refuse to work.

The rich bums that don't pay their fair share of tax cost us way way more.

 

[Colonial]

The rich bums that don't pay their fair share of tax cost us way way more.

Yes and no. At least the rich ones work and dont get cash from the gov for watching tv.

Either way. Im happy with the stadium plan

 

[JD Tomahawk]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...on-stadiums-announcement-20150904-gjfizy.html

I can understand upgrading Parramatta Stadium to 30,000 seats, but I can't see the point of upgrading Allianz Stadium to 55,000. It rarely gets filled at the moment with a capacity of 40,000, and 55,000 is too small to attract major events.

ANZ stadium has become a happy hunting ground for the national soccer team, so it makes sense to put a roof on it and re-configure it into a specialist rectangular ground.

Soccer will ultimately win the battle for big crowds in Sydney, given the slow decline of NRL, and the limited appeal of rugby union. As for AFL, the era of those really big 50K+ crowds in Sydney is finished. The 70K+ crowds the Swans got last decade will stand as code records in NSW for generations.

Agree, anz stadium would be perfect for soccer and will be much more appealing.
What do the nrl faithful think about Sydney holding the attendance records.

 

[Land of the Giants]

What do the nrl faithful think about Sydney holding the attendance records.

I doubt they think about it at all.

There's been dozens of NRL events - Origin, Grand Finals, preliminary finals - that exceeded those 70K+ crowds the Swans got.

With AFL, the original idea was for the Swans to use Homebush for "blockbuster" games, which came about when memories of the stadium as an Olympic venue were still fresh in people's minds. It worked quite well for a while, but their constant failures against Collingwood helped to undermine the concept.

Also, if crowds averaged more than 60K in any season (which happened in 2007), there was a provision in the Homebush contract to have an extra non-finals game there the following season. So in 2008, there were four games there instead of three, and that was probably one too many for the market to tolerate. That's when Swans members started campaigning in earnest to get rid of Homebush as a venue.

 

[desie]

To
Be used at near full capacity 4 times a year. Sydney already has stadiums for that! So why need to spend a billionaire when it can be used on roads and infrastructure

Because the NSW Government has barely spent a cent on stadia outside of the SCG in almost 30 years while every other state has spent a motza, meaning they're at risk of losing major events.

$160 million a year for ten years is dwarfed by the roads, health and education budgets. People that make that argument miss the fact that investment is required right across government.

 

[Colonial]

Because the NSW Government has barely spent a cent on stadia outside of the SCG in almost 30 years while every other state has spent a motza, meaning they're at risk of losing major events.

$160 million a year for ten years is dwarfed by the roads, health and education budgets. People that make that argument miss the fact that investment is required right across government.

The fact we are, finally, getting a 2nd airport, extended rail network, extended light rail and roads shows that theres investment there as well.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

To
Be used at near full capacity 4 times a year. Sydney already has stadiums for that! So why need to spend a billionaire when it can be used on roads and infrastructure

you mean like the billions currently being invested to upgrade sydneys roads? the billions that have been spent upgrading the states freeways particularly up north? or the billions being spent on new light rail and heavy rail projects? the billions that have just finished up being spent on schools? billions on a airport?

we've the largest economy in the country by quite so margin, its a completely different economic situation to other states and whilst i don't like the extra $350 million set to come out general revenue (parra should * off for a start) based on the time frames where dealing with and forecast growth it isn't going to have a noticeable impact on the NSW economy. hell even in a downturn we can afford that amount quite easily. economic impact doesn't stack up as a reason against it.

For those interstate peasants asking yes we have the money, NSW is the engine room of Australia, Sydney itself has the largest economy the country. mining booms over and those states that relied on it solely to solve their problems return the quagmire they were in before and so who does the country turn to when your all running massive deficits, with massive short falls revenue, out of date infrastructure and soaring unemployment? the same place it always does and always has NSW. poor bards got his work cut out for him at the next COAG meeting as peasant states line up to bleed us dry once again.

 

[Land of the Giants]

Last night's NRL final between the Roosters and Melbourne Storm attracted a crowd of 20,521 at Allianz stadium. And it was a Roosters home final.

In other words, the stadium was half-full. Why anyone would want to pump money into upgrading capacity by another 10,000-15,000 is a mystery.

Unless it's for Sydney FC's annual home derby with the Wanderers.

 

[Colonial]

Last night's NRL final between the Roosters and Melbourne Storm attracted a crowd of 20,521 at Allianz stadium. And it was a Roosters home final.

In other words, the stadium was half-full. Why anyone would want to pump money into upgrading capacity by another 10,000-15,000 is a mystery.

Unless it's for Sydney FC's annual home derby with the Wanderers.

Its for the derby, plus when the tahs win they get good crowds and the there are other major events such as concerts

 

[magic_johnson!]

About the same as other states.

My taxes also go to bums who refuse to work. I sould rather the taxes go ti stadiums than loser bums who refuse to work.

So you want to see a stadium that is very rarely filled, expanded? I can understand the want for a refresh, but a substantial expansion? SFS is far more underused than other major stadiums, both in terms of average attendances and 'sell outs.'

This year, the average NRL game at the stadium was 15,199 or 33% of capacity.
The largest NRL attendance at the stadium was 35,100 or 77% of capacity

2014/2015 Sydney FC averaged apx.16,000 at the ground, or 35% of capacity
The largest crowd was 41,213, or 90% of capacity

(2014) The waratahs averaged 19,512, or 42% of capacity.
Their largest crowd at teh ground was 35,500 for a final, or 78% of capacity
Their largest crowd for a regular season game was 24,500, or 53% of capacity

Notwithstanding the a-league derby, as far as i can see the ground never achieved a crowd of more than 80% of the capacity.

Compare it to other states:

MCG: sold out multiple times per year. This year, cricket world cup, state of origin and soccer all achieved crowds in excess of 90,000 people, and this is ignoring AFL, where by seasons end will have atleast 3.

Etihad had a poor year, but still averaged 28318 in the AFL (52%), and sold out a number of times

Adelaide Oval and Subiaco sold out more often then not

Gabba had a poor year, but still averaged more than half full. Suncorp strong as always.

You really cannot say that people are knocking down the door for an increase in stadium capacity. There has not been one instance where the ground has not been big enough in the past year (and probably further). It would be absolutely pointless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Australian_football_code_crowds
http://afltables.com/afl/crowds/vn_mcg.html
http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/stadiums_crowds.php?id=9

 

[Colonial]

So you want to see a stadium that is very rarely filled, expanded? I can understand the want for a refresh, but a substantial expansion? SFS is far more underused than other major stadiums, both in terms of average attendances and 'sell outs.'

This year, the average NRL game at the stadium was 15,199 or 33% of capacity.
The largest NRL attendance at the stadium was 35,100 or 77% of capacity

2014/2015 Sydney FC averaged apx.16,000 at the ground, or 35% of capacity
The largest crowd was 41,213, or 90% of capacity

(2014) The waratahs averaged 19,512, or 42% of capacity.
Their largest crowd at teh ground was 35,500 for a final, or 78% of capacity
Their largest crowd for a regular season game was 24,500, or 53% of capacity

Notwithstanding the a-league derby, as far as i can see the ground never achieved a crowd of more than 80% of the capacity.

Compare it to other states:

MCG: sold out multiple times per year. This year, cricket world cup, state of origin and soccer all achieved crowds in excess of 90,000 people, and this is ignoring AFL, where by seasons end will have atleast 3.

Etihad had a poor year, but still averaged 28318 in the AFL (52%), and sold out a number of times

Adelaide Oval and Subiaco sold out more often then not

Gabba had a poor year, but still averaged more than half full. Suncorp strong as always.

You really cannot say that people are knocking down the door for an increase in stadium capacity. There has not been one instance where the ground has not been big enough in the past year (and probably further). It would be absolutely pointless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Australian_football_code_crowds
http://afltables.com/afl/crowds/vn_mcg.html
http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/stadiums_crowds.php?id=9

But it doesnt fill up all the time. Adelaide and the perth stadiums do. But the mcg doesnt. Does that mean because it more often than not doesnt sell out it ahould be shrunk? Please.
The stadiums in sydney do sell out on occasion and not just for sport. Theres also concerts and other events

 

[magic_johnson!]

But it doesnt fill up all the time. Adelaide and the perth stadiums do. But the mcg doesnt. Does that mean because it more often than not doesnt sell out it ahould be shrunk? Please.
The stadiums in sydney do sell out on occasion and not just for sport. Theres also concerts and other events

No-one is arguing to reduce the capacity. What i'm saying is that an increase in the size of the stadium is not only pointless, but will reduce the experience for the patrons visiting the stadium, as percentage of capacity will be lowered.

'More often than not' is such an open statement though, and comparing the MCG and Allianz is a little bit apples and oranges due to what they offer its tenants and visitors. One is a state's flagship stadium that enables the biggest things to come to Melbourne. The other is a stadium which has its purposes and serves them well, being a medium sized stadium that handles small every day games rather than large blockbusters.

But lets compare them considering they are used equally. One sells out multiple times every single year, with fixtures you can look ten years in advance and know it will be full. One does not. Give me one year, even one event, that has left people thinking 'ah i wish SFS was bigger so i could get a ticket to this match.' If the stadium had extra seats for the previous few years, would more people have visited?

And 'concerts and other events?' I see in the next 12 months it's hosting Ed Sheeran. If they needed a bigger venue for this one concert, is there not somewhere...next dooor? and an increase of sporting capcity from 45,000 to 60,000 would increase its concert capacity so minimally, when you take into consideration that most of the crowd is on the surface itself and barely half of the stands are even opened.

You even admit that Adelaide and Perth sell out all of the time, and they both (adelaide oval, subiaco/ new perth stadium) have capacities lower than the proposed SFS, with very satisfied patrons and tennants alike (Adelaide Oval atleast, perth obviously to be seen). How does this justify excessively expanding Sydney, when you admit that Allianz is almost never full, and more often than not not even 40% full?

 

[Colonial]

No-one is arguing to reduce the capacity. What i'm saying is that an increase in the size of the stadium is not only pointless, but will reduce the experience for the patrons visiting the stadium, as percentage of capacity will be lowered.

'More often than not' is such an open statement though, and comparing the MCG and Allianz is a little bit apples and oranges due to what they offer its tenants and visitors. One is a state's flagship stadium that enables the biggest things to come to Melbourne. The other is a stadium which has its purposes and serves them well, being a medium sized stadium that handles small every day games rather than large blockbusters.

But lets compare them considering they are used equally. One sells out multiple times every single year, with fixtures you can look ten years in advance and know it will be full. One does not. Give me one year, even one event, that has left people thinking 'ah i wish SFS was bigger so i could get a ticket to this match.' If the stadium had extra seats for the previous few years, would more people have visited?

And 'concerts and other events?' I see in the next 12 months it's hosting Ed Sheeran. If they needed a bigger venue for this one concert, is there not somewhere...next dooor? and an increase of sporting capcity from 45,000 to 60,000 would increase its concert capacity so minimally, when you take into consideration that most of the crowd is on the surface itself and barely half of the stands are even opened.

You even admit that Adelaide and Perth sell out all of the time, and they both (adelaide oval, subiaco/ new perth stadium) have capacities lower than the proposed SFS, with very satisfied patrons and tennants alike (Adelaide Oval atleast, perth obviously to be seen). How does this justify excessively expanding Sydney, when you admit that Allianz is almost never full, and more often than not not even 40% full?

I see what their hope is. That better facilities and quality mean higher attendances. Worked for brisbane
It could possibly work fir sydney

Im happy for it to go on.

The ffa sydney derbies get sellouts everygame.
The waratahs finals sell out.

 

[Land of the Giants]

So you want to see a stadium that is very rarely filled, expanded? I can understand the want for a refresh, but a substantial expansion? SFS is far more underused than other major stadiums, both in terms of average attendances and 'sell outs.'

How does this justify excessively expanding Sydney, when you admit that Allianz is almost never full, and more often than not not even 40% full?

It sounds like you don't understand the politics behind the upgrade.

When Sydney won the rights to stage the 2000 Olympics and Stadium Australia was built, the SFS, which had only recently been constructed, became something of a little white elephant.

When the Olympics were over, the intention had always been for Homebush (with a reconfigured capacity of 80,000), to host Sydney's big sporting events like the NRL Grand Final, State of Origin, the Bledisloe Cup, Socceroo qualifiers, the Rugby World Cup, and big cultural events like U2 and AC/DC, that sort of thing. It worked quite well for a while.

But there was a backlash brewing from Sydney's eastern suburbs/north shore elite about having to travel out to what they regard as the western suburbs all the time. They are generally loathe to go out there anyway, and prefer Moore Park as an event destination. Gerry Harvey made some comments recently hinting at this.

That's why the SFS upgrade is happening - it doesn't matter if the new venue rarely sells out, or that the NRL isn't really a big crowd-puller anymore, or that the upgrade might not pay for itself. It just means more events can be staged in the inner city, rather than out west. It's a political thing.