Music Beginner guitarist seeking advice

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Having watched that Metalzone video, a couple more observations and an unrequested history lesson.

All guitar amps have two stages, pre-amp and power-amp. Each is an independent amplification circuit, built around vacuum tubes, transistors or a digital simulation of one of those. The short version is the pre-amp shapes the tone of your guitar, and the power-amp adds the volume - think of them as the mixing desk and the PA system. Distortion comes about when a signal gets run too hot through a vacuum tube or transistor (or, as is less appreciated, a speaker), resulting in clipping of the signal. The more clipping, the more distortion.

There's a bit more to it though, as distortion sounds very different based on where it comes from.

The classic 'classic rock' sound is power-amp distortion from a big vacuum tube amp (generally a Marshall Plexi, but also Fenders, Voxes and Hiwatts) running into multiple 12 inch speakers in a big, sealed hardwood box, all at the absolute limit of their power capacity. Over time people started to want more and/or different distortion, and without that necessity of maximum volume, so started running hotter signals into their amplifers, through more sensitive guitar pickups, and pedals, ranging from simple input signal boosters, through the gentle distortion and mid-boost of something like a Tubescreamer (because it makes your vacuum tube amp scream, eh) to the total flatline distortion of fuzz pedals.

Amplifier manufacturers responded by essentially building additional distortion capacity into their pre-amps, typically by adding a volume regulator between pre-amp and power-amp so you could jack the former right up without pushing the latter too hard. The Marshall JCM800 is one of these, and became the classic 80s rock and metal sound. It's not perfect though - while pre-amp distortion, through pedal or amp is easier to get as it isn't beholden to volume, it has a different character; smoother than the ragged edge you get from hot power-amp tubes.

Your Metalzone is just another sort of pre-amp, but one that buries the guitar under a chainsaw. If you run it through another pre-amp, particularly a high-gain metal-oriented one, you're essentially doing the same thing twice, losing your breadth of tone and coming out with the tinny buzz that gives it such a bad name. Similarly though, you can lose that tone in the rest of the amplifier - the power amp, the speakers, and the cabinet they sit in. The less powerful the amp and (particularly) the smaller the speaker, the less capable it is of pushing that full range of sound out.
 
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The other quirk of the Metalzone and its ilk is that they produce a metal tone for a guitar played by itself by jacking the gain right up and scooping out the mids, so you're left with a highly-distorted signal that's mostly bass and treble.

That's perfect for bedroom shredding, but the problem you run into when you play with other people is that drums and bass produce a whole lot of bass, and cymbals are all treble, so a bass/treble-focused guitar tone vanishes in the mix. A mid-heavy guitar cuts through best, producing a bigger sound overall, and hence is the classic option for solos - but sounds weedy by itself.

The secret of guitar tone is entirely in figuring out what complements what, be it stages in your tone chain or working with other instruments.
 
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Good posts Gumbletron. With the Peavey Rage 108 I was talking about earlier, it has a bass mid and treble and they were always set to 10-0-10 because that was the way to get the best Metallica sound. I can't believe now that I ever thought it sounded good though. Not sure if the amp has just aged really badly or my ears have matured..
 

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Good posts Gumbletron. With the Peavey Rage 108 I was talking about earlier, it has a bass mid and treble and they were always set to 10-0-10 because that was the way to get the best Metallica sound. I can't believe now that I ever thought it sounded good though. Not sure if the amp has just aged really badly or my ears have matured..
I started on a Rage 158. It was always crap.
 
Call it a midlife crisis, call it what you will, i've had an acoustic guitar sitting in the corner of my lounge room for a decade that became more ornament than instrument. I'm a music nut, and have always harbored ambitions to be able to play, I tried on and off but things always got in the way (kids)

This time I made a pact, its time, im not giving up.

Ive gone hard for a few months in a row, every day, practicing notes - my fingers are callused, i'm ready. (have a steel string, pain was part of the process I guess, noting is meant to be easy)

so here I am, asking for advice.

I have been working on the open e blues scale and am ok at working up and down the strings, but I have to look while doing it, can sometimes muck around on the g string and maybe attempt a lick but its clunky...

Ive got a good a minor, e major, c, d, g.

I can move from a minor to c to d pretty good - but struggle big time going from anything to a g and back again.

the only two songs I have been attempting are working class hero and hurt.
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can anyone suggest any maybe 3 chord songs with the afore mentions chords with pretty easy strumming patterns that I might try?

or maybe thins i can do to get better in changing between notes?

is it like golf? everyone has their own little tips and advice that can be like a penny drop moment at any time

everyone tells me its muscle memory but I just cant mange to put my fingers on the strings and have it ring a tune without actually looking with my eyes

anyhow, hoping for advice from the forum
Much like yourself, I’ve got grand ideas of learning the guitar in a more dedicated way but have a young family to prioritise. I have ebbs and flows of picking the acoustic up and have an electric gathering dust. The 4 key elements for me have been;
1/ Nailing the commonly used open chords to the point where you can move to the chord before having to think about it.

2/ keeping my callouses present and conditioned. The real discipline is in at the very least picking the guitar up a few times a week if you’re time poor.

3/ Strumming. Man, it made such a big difference once I ‘got it’ with strumming. I’m by no means good at it but when it clicks it makes me feel in complete connection with what I’m playing. You can actually play through your mistakes without much of an impact on what you’re playing. Strum from the wrist too. I greatly admire those who get straight into the groove when they pick up a guitar. The ease of my strumming rhythm/fluidity doesn’t usually kick in until I’ve been playing for several minutes. The first few minutes often sound like I’ve just started learning again.

4/ get onto a few fingerpicking patterns that you like and learn the hell out of them so that your fingers get some muscle memory.

I’ll also add that I stuffed up a bit by developing bad habits in my techniques with holding the guitar and strumming. I’m told that’s the biggest issue with self-learning. It’s difficult to unlearn the habits.

I’m by no means a guitar expert but I am an expert on what’s worked for me so far.
 
Much like yourself, I’ve got grand ideas of learning the guitar in a more dedicated way but have a young family to prioritise. I have ebbs and flows of picking the acoustic up and have an electric gathering dust. The 4 key elements for me have been;
1/ Nailing the commonly used open chords to the point where you can move to the chord before having to think about it.

2/ keeping my callouses present and conditioned. The real discipline is in at the very least picking the guitar up a few times a week if you’re time poor.

3/ Strumming. Man, it made such a big difference once I ‘got it’ with strumming. I’m by no means good at it but when it clicks it makes me feel in complete connection with what I’m playing. You can actually play through your mistakes without much of an impact on what you’re playing. Strum from the wrist too. I greatly admire those who get straight into the groove when they pick up a guitar. The ease of my strumming rhythm/fluidity doesn’t usually kick in until I’ve been playing for several minutes. The first few minutes often sound like I’ve just started learning again.

4/ get onto a few fingerpicking patterns that you like and learn the hell out of them so that your fingers get some muscle memory.

I’ll also add that I stuffed up a bit by developing bad habits in my techniques with holding the guitar and strumming. I’m told that’s the biggest issue with self-learning. It’s difficult to unlearn the habits.

I’m by no means a guitar expert but I am an expert on what’s worked for me so far.

I've started using a little walk technique to bridge between chords, like between the g and the a , a little walk down or up the top string

Really ties the room together! And a good way to take the pressure of changing chords too fast.

It was my biggest discovery last week
 
Got a good one for you Howard Moon. I have a feeling you might actually like this song too. Most People I Know (Think That I'm Crazy). Classic Billy Thorpe track that's piss easy too. It's just A A7sus4 (for the most people I know bit) then D A G E (craaaaa zeeee eeeee eeeeee). Then just the A to A7sus4 for the oooooooo yeeeeeah bit. :thumbsu:
 
Got a good one for you Howard Moon. I have a feeling you might actually like this song too. Most People I Know (Think That I'm Crazy). Classic Billy Thorpe track that's piss easy too. It's just A A7sus4 (for the most people I know bit) then D A G E (craaaaa zeeee eeeee eeeeee). Then just the A to A7sus4 for the oooooooo yeeeeeah bit. :thumbsu:

thanks mate! - on tonights play list

ive been working on a horse with no name - very easy chords - im just struggling a bit to mute the strings in the strumming pattern, but its coming along

at the moment my songs are horse with no name, my sweet lord, wonderwall and hurt, johnny cash.
 
Rightio. That's out of my area of expertise then I'm afraid. I've never even owned an amp that has one sorry. Someone else might have some ideas though. Maddogm Coldacre ? Anyone else?

Gumbletrons already covered most of it; but I will say that I think that Effects Loops are overrated and not essential at all. I’ve got an effects loop with my AC30 but I never use it.

the thing with them is that they’re not all created equal. some have a drop of 10 db, some a drop of 15 db, others don’t at all. some effects loop are before the preamp section, some are post. it’s a real mixed bag.

the only time I’ve liked using one was with an old DM-2 that clipped with humbuckers. putting it in the loop solved that, but I ended up moving it along anyway (the AD-900 has more headroom and longer delay time).

for a beginner, I’d say don’t worry about it. invest in a good isolated power supply for your pedals. get familiar with pedals and their quirks. later on you’ll work out whether you need an effects loop or not. (like a few years later).

as for a good beginners amp? I’m a Vox man so I always recommend an AC10 or AC15. the AC10 is probably closer to your budget.
 

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What do you like about the vox amps Coldacre?

well it’s THE sound that I gravitate towards. they have that glassy bell like chime with the cleans and that killer crunchy yet articulate overdriven sound when cranked up. it’s the perfect breakup of any amp. (apologies to Marshall SuperLeads!)

I’ve always loved Edge’s “Under A Blood Red Sky” tone. I barely listen to U2 anymore but it’s the sound I gravitate to still. Vox amps also do that woody clean thing that sounds great with ‘buckers

here’s two examples that best exemplify what I’m talking about:

overdrive (the first minute on the Les Paul)




cleans:

 
quick and dirty picture of the pedal board. a lot of these sound specifically good into the Vox, not so with Fender style amps. I could never use another brand and i’ve built my rig around the AC30 Top Boost circuit

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scuse my n00bisness...

c.jpg

the interweb man says this is a c major

I need to play this chord to master the song I like

clearly im used to the c chord up the top that stretches my hand to pieces..

can anyone give tell me how to do this one? is this a barre?

which finger which strings?

cheers
 
scuse my n00bisness...

View attachment 683612

the interweb man says this is a c major

I need to play this chord to master the song I like

clearly im used to the c chord up the top that stretches my hand to pieces..

can anyone give tell me how to do this one? is this a barre?

which finger which strings?

cheers
Yeah that's a barre chord. It's basically an e shaped c if that makes sense. You were talking earlier about taking a chord shape and moving it up and down the neck to get different chords. This is that. I'm at work so can't tell you what strings right now but if you play an open c just find the spot on the neck where you get the same chord with the e shape. If you haven't tried barre chords yet though you may struggle because you'll have to change the way you normally finger that shape because you need to use your index finger as the nut (barre).. if that makes sense.
 
Yeah that's a barre chord. It's basically an e shaped c if that makes sense. You were talking earlier about taking a chord shape and moving it up and down the neck to get different chords. This is that. I'm at work so can't tell you what strings right now but if you play an open c just find the spot on the neck where you get the same chord with the e shape. If you haven't tried barre chords yet though you may struggle because you'll have to change the way you normally finger that shape because you need to use your index finger as the nut (barre).. if that makes sense.

so it looks like the index finger is only pushing on the top 2 strings, is that right?
 
so it looks like the index finger is only pushing on the top 2 strings, is that right?
the full Barre chord it's pushing on the bottom 2 as well, in this case it might be just playing the top 4 strings in which case you only need to hold down the top string (with the index finger)
 
I know !! its amazing that you can just pick up an instrument from you tube - if you cant learn in this era you never will...

I often wonder how kids even do assignments at school these days? do you even need to study or read books?
 

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