Bendigo FL discussion 2025

[Del233027]

I think the Riddell push is really about getting the Kyneton connection back which was great for both clubs but not sure it would be as appealing as other options

Not central highlands? I would have thought theyd have a good rivalry with hepburn and Daylesford

 

[Del233027]

And therein raises an immediate "red flag" Arnold Horshack if the words "capped" and "clubs" are even in the same sentence when it comes to nailing the actual best 50 players within your entire region.

I'd argue that at times the best player at an unperforming side, who is competitive, unconditionally is better equipped than player 9-10 in a stacked junior side that isn't coached for being versatile or shown how to defend properly.
One's ability to defend and/or react to transition or how quick they look to respond, impact/locate on turnover is massive these days.

The ball in hand stuff is easy, especially when junior coaches and parents roll out that he/she is "elite by foot" in which I always reply with "as in elite at all 20-30 different types of kicks wow" ha ha

I'll say it again, who's going out to watch games, compare "like for like" types, who can line up 6-7 kids who all boast to be mid/fwd's then nail the 3-4 for the actual point of difference they possess?

Who, watching these games, sourcing talent and are all over the Pio's list profile, how does not just 2026, but 2027 look, all with the understanding of what sizes, shapes, skills, traits, attributes may be necessary - all whilst having the right calibre and characters to set standards, lead by example and run the locker room?

It feel like each year it's all chips in now across many regions with the 2-3 names who Cal Twomey rates, when the real trick is how do we get players 5-8, or even one more player exposed and spoken about, perhaps onto a VFL list as the demographic of player up your way is often more akin to late body development come 19-21yo.
Meaning the kids need to be set up for the "fight" or the longer route via state league football, and most critically have it all explained as to why as opposed to the lazy "not draftable" line.

Otherwise as ringo1 stated young boys and girls will leave the game after their draft year simply because of not reaching expectations placed on them .... in most cases by others, not themselves.

I could go on ....

The Coates League was formed in 1993, its over 30 years old and has run its race. The top 30 under 18 kids in the country should go to Canberra and play in the vfl for 12 month. Victoria should have under 23 interleague, knock-out format like the old days and the best kids should top up vfl lists. Make vfl lists smaller, squad of 28, zone out the areas to vfl clubs and when theres injuries play vfl.

The amount of travel for games and travel is absurd for maybe 1 or 2 kids to be drafted for teams outside aps schools.

Let the kids do year 12 and enjoy their footy, they will actually stay longer in the game

 

[western royboy]

The Coates League was formed in 1993, its over 30 years old and has run its race. The top 30 under 18 kids in the country should go to Canberra and play in the vfl for 12 month. Victoria should have under 23 interleague, knock-out format like the old days and the best kids should top up vfl lists. Make vfl lists smaller, squad of 28, zone out the areas to vfl clubs and when theres injuries play vfl.

The amount of travel for games and travel is absurd for maybe 1 or 2 kids to be drafted for teams outside aps schools.

Let the kids do year 12 and enjoy their footy, they will actually stay longer in the game

The VFL has become unwieldy, a bastardised hotch potch of who knows what. Too many clubs with different agendas

 

[Doona2]

The amount of travel for games and travel is absurd for maybe 1 or 2 kids to be drafted for teams outside aps schools.

Let the kids do year 12 and enjoy their footy, they will actually stay longer in the game

So many moving parts now for our top age bracket of kids, all adding extra stresses outside the 2-3 days required at a pathways club - school, driving hours, yr.12 or early trade based schooling, part time work if not fortunate to have a well off family situation.
Throw in the multiple programs, squads etc some of the players participate in - some could wear up to 6-7 different jumpers in a season, all with differing demands and/or expectations.

There would be plenty of alternate options or ways to improve the experience of the program and/or outcomes, but getting the right minds and participants willing to sit around that table to open and honestly discuss for the games governing body
(I'm assuming) is the bigger challenge than the potential fix.

Who wants to risk copping the 4:40pm Sunday Marvel timeslot for their club ha ha.

 

[western royboy]

So many moving parts now for our top age bracket of kids, all adding extra stresses outside the 2-3 days required at a pathways club - school, driving hours, yr.12 or early trade based schooling, part time work if not fortunate to have a well off family situation.
Throw in the multiple programs, squads etc some of the players participate in - some could wear up to 6-7 different jumpers in a season, all with differing demands and/or expectations.

There would be plenty of alternate options or ways to improve the experience of the program and/or outcomes, but getting the right minds and participants willing to sit around that table to open and honestly discuss for the games governing body
(I'm assuming) is the bigger challenge than the potential fix.

Who wants to risk copping the 4:40pm Sunday Marvel timeslot for their club ha ha.

The problem with the Coates League has always been the same…

Each Team has maybe 1-3 players that will be drafted with a maximum other 1-3 that might be rookie listed. Those 4-6 players require another 30 poor pricks to go through the wringer so that they can make it. I know one highly rated coach who walked away from it because he couldn’t handle kidding to the 30 odd that needed to be used as cannon fodder.

 

[Jack Doolan]

Elite pathway bullshit isnt solely a football problem. I've been told Castlemaine would dominate netball if their players hadn't been poached.

0 idea how true that is so tell me if I'm wrong.

Apparently if you picked teams in postcodes they would have the two best players in the league in the middle one of the best shooters and two young guns who will be in the best players for the next 15 years so it wouldn’t be a bad side

 

[Jack Doolan]

Not central highlands? I would have thought theyd have a good rivalry with hepburn and Daylesford

Would be my pick as well but I’ve been told there is no way they would take another team

 

[Doona2]

The problem with the Coates League has always been the same…

Each Team has maybe 1-3 players that will be drafted with a maximum other 1-3 that might be rookie listed. Those 4-6 players require another 30 poor pricks to go through the wringer so that they can make it. I know one highly rated coach who walked away from it because he couldn’t handle kidding to the 30 odd that needed to be used as cannon fodder.

That's the exact problem if that's how it's being sold, hence why the private schools right now are superseding.

Networks beyond yr.12 footy can lead to other opportunities in life and football, whereas I'm not even sure parents pay direct to the CTL league clubs now for their kids participation fees.
I know for a period they didn't, perhaps it's now back on the clubs to run their own business I'm not sure.

Regions before Covid could attract their own sponsors to help their clubs with some cashflow which could go towards looking after a few heads to look at Talent on weekends, attract or source development/assistant coaches after going to watch them and do background checks, even offset the parental cost of the shorter programs like U15/U16 stuff.

If it's considered a meat market and treated as such by those in roles of responsibility, I'd imagine that's exactly how it feels to those hearing such.

Life lessons and all the things aren't a bad way of teaching (or learning) if made relatable to the situation, a couple of coaches I hung out with in the pathways (and one RM) were exceptional at this.
Praise them more for reaching what may be the best level for them right now as it is still quite an achievement.

Learn 1-2 things non footy related about each player, meet the parents and connect, open up doors both ways and treat is a growth environment for all. That experience alone can still open up doors after 18yo (and for coaches/parents too believe it or not) if the program is rolled out holistically and embraced correctly as not wholely and solely judged on a "draft"

Sadly, and we all know there's far more (and tax free) money available now than ever before, for experienced folk to move around the bush and the burbs.

This creates other issues as it means the next wave of eager development coaches don't always get access to best available mentors either - which then see's over 100 eager men and women doing L3 annually in Victoria but not graduate in the same numbers in football as the roles simply aren't around.

Or for some they walk away as once outside CTL you're exposed to needing to be fully ready for the next opportunity you apply for, which sucks for those who get involved but can't advance.

So it's not just the kids who are battling, we need to find a way to thicken up the soup in terms of resources also to equip our RTM and their staff like before Covid times.

You refer to knowing one western royboy I personally know of 4 across 4 different regions in recent seasons who have tapped out, plus 2 candidates who would've been exceptional for both the kids and emerging coaches to learn and grow under.
Issue was after applying is they couldn't forego the drop in employment situation to justify it so they work elsewhere still and coach local, earn twice as much and are home one extra night a week.

I still are extremely passion about the pathways programs, along with community football, but it's the balance of money right now that's out of kilter.
Much like the VFL option for our pathway graduates who get offers immediately double/triple that of VFL contracts from local clubs despite never playing a 2pm game against grown men in their lives.

I don't have the answers but I hold out hope as it's a pretty cool thing to be involved in when it's flying, so if we can find a way to resource a bit better and co-exist with school footy we can still find ways to showcase aspiring young men and women.

 

[Blackout]

The problem with the Coates League has always been the same…

Each Team has maybe 1-3 players that will be drafted with a maximum other 1-3 that might be rookie listed. Those 4-6 players require another 30 poor pricks to go through the wringer so that they can make it. I know one highly rated coach who walked away from it because he couldn’t handle kidding to the 30 odd that needed to be used as cannon fodder.

I found out at the local cricket club today that one of our 17 year olds isn't playing cricket this year, due to the Talent League side telling the whole squad that they're not allowed to play any summer sport. As far as I am aware, this kid is no chance of being drafted and just happy to be in the squad. Surely a 17 year old is more likely to hurt themselves at school or on a Saturday night than playing a fairly light game of golf, tennis or cricket, which I would have thought would be a welcome distraction.

It's hardly healthy for developing balanced kids when they're given an ultimatum that it's footy or nothing.

 

[Doona2]

I found out at the local cricket club today that one of our 17 year olds isn't playing cricket this year, due to the Talent League side telling the whole squad that they're not allowed to play any summer sport. As far as I am aware, this kid is no chance of being drafted and just happy to be in the squad. Surely a 17 year old is more likely to hurt themselves at school or on a Saturday night than playing a fairly light game of golf, tennis or cricket, which I would have thought would be a welcome distraction.

It's hardly healthy for developing balanced kids when they're given an ultimatum that it's footy or nothing.

Parents have a part to play in these conversations too.

Christ we used to have kids in summer playing high end rep basketball, even premier cricket at times who would then play NAB League games "in season" and the training elements co-existed and worked in as keeping all options open was seen a good thing for talented young sportspeople.
One lad in fact now plays for Victoria and Australia A, I'd nearly guarantee had that been said he woulda walked and the connections, friendships I still see he has with our club folk from that time would never have eventuated.

Perhaps I really am too old and my thoughts are redundent on all this, if this is now the new normal and the expectation placed on these kids.

 

[Shinjuku]

Parents have a part to play in these conversations too.

Christ we used to have kids in summer playing high end rep basketball, even premier cricket at times who would then play NAB League games "in season" and the training elements co-existed and worked in as keeping all options open was seen a good thing for talented young sportspeople.
One lad in fact now plays for Victoria and Australia A, I'd nearly guarantee had that been said he woulda walked and the connections, friendships I still see he has with our club folk would never have eventuated.

Perhaps I really am too old and my thoughts are redundent on all this, if this is now the new normal and the expectation placed on these kids.

All of us on here ( me included, bar maybe one or two, are self appointed footy experts. One of the first things I ever read on here was from Ringo - good players pick themselves. Its very true.

 

[western royboy]

The stories relayed above are sadly nothing new. Sadly not many parents are realists and will back their kids in to do anything. The drop off rate after this age group is alarming. Plenty of very good kids turn their back on the system and then get shunned for good. The lad who one the GFL Best and Fairest this year is very good example (I’ll add he has two Hampden Maskell Medals as well). Should be on an AFL list.

 

[Doona2]

All of us on here ( me included, bar maybe one or two, are self appointed footy experts. One of the first things I ever read on here was from Ringo - good players pick themselves. Its very true.

I'm far from an expert Shinjuku but I totally agree with ringo1 on that one

The thing we get blindsided by, often with rose coloured glasses or with ego as junior coaches wanted that elusive U16 medal on our TV ha ha is the differing between good, above standard, appealing/attractive and potentially "elite" and where all the moving parts need to be by 19/20yo ... not November in one's 18yo year.

 

[Jack Doolan]

I found out at the local cricket club today that one of our 17 year olds isn't playing cricket this year, due to the Talent League side telling the whole squad that they're not allowed to play any summer sport. As far as I am aware, this kid is no chance of being drafted and just happy to be in the squad. Surely a 17 year old is more likely to hurt themselves at school or on a Saturday night than playing a fairly light game of golf, tennis or cricket, which I would have thought would be a welcome distraction.

It's hardly healthy for developing balanced kids when they're given an ultimatum that it's footy or nothing.

Definitely comes back to parents and kid themselves Jack Ginnivan told them to shove it and played cricket when he wanted to including after being drafted and it hasn’t done him any harm

 

[Doona2]

The stories relayed above are sadly nothing new. Sadly not many parents are realists and will back their kids in to do anything. The drop off rate after this age group is alarming. Plenty of very good kids turn their back on the system and then get shunned for good. The lad who one the GFL Best and Fairest this year is very good example (I’ll add he has two Hampden Maskell Medals as well). Should be on an AFL list.

That's where the support networks around our young, vulnerable, impressionable are critical.

There'll continue to be kids or young men into their 20's bob up, because those around them backed them in when others didn't, and continued to support them in their dreams and aspirations to keep going.

It's always a potential "Yes" until it's a definite "No" from someone well higher than local level, rep, the pathways and Big Footy ha ha

FYI I flagged a few young men/women over the last few years, a couple got VFL trials, obviously many don't as list profiling, wants/needs etc vary, but all you passionate football people can still play a big part in ensuring the right players are in conversations, and if it's a no then at least you've tried.

 

[NeonLeon81]

And therein raises an immediate "red flag" Arnold Horshack if the words "capped" and "clubs" are even in the same sentence when it comes to nailing the actual best 50 players within your entire region.

I'd argue that at times the best player at an unperforming side, who is competitive, unconditionally is better equipped than player 9-10 in a stacked junior side that isn't coached for being versatile or shown how to defend properly.
One's ability to defend and/or react to transition or how quick they look to respond, impact/locate on turnover is massive these days.

The ball in hand stuff is easy, especially when junior coaches and parents roll out that he/she is "elite by foot" in which I always reply with "as in elite at all 20-30 different types of kicks wow" ha ha

I'll say it again, who's going out to watch games, compare "like for like" types, who can line up 6-7 kids who all boast to be mid/fwd's then nail the 3-4 for the actual point of difference they possess?

Who, watching these games, sourcing talent and are all over the Pio's list profile, how does not just 2026, but 2027 look, all with the understanding of what sizes, shapes, skills, traits, attributes may be necessary - all whilst having the right calibre and characters to set standards, lead by example and run the locker room?

It feel like each year it's all chips in now across many regions with the 2-3 names who Cal Twomey rates, when the real trick is how do we get players 5-8, or even one more player exposed and spoken about, perhaps onto a VFL list as the demographic of player up your way is often more akin to late body development come 19-21yo.
Meaning the kids need to be set up for the "fight" or the longer route via state league football, and most critically have it all explained as to why as opposed to the lazy "not draftable" line.

Otherwise as ringo1 stated young boys and girls will leave the game after their draft year simply because of not reaching expectations placed on them .... in most cases by others, not themselves.

I could go on ....

You blokes are acting like it’s new issue. . This has been the system for ever and a day, just in different forms. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. . Some kids and in turn their clubs get the raw end of the deal and yes there is bias and advantages for certain clubs and certain surnames but that’s been the same for as long as I’ve been involved in football.

The vast majority of top end talent one way or another will get their opportunity at some point to prove themselves too or in a talent pathway and it’s on them whether they take that opportunity. Admittedly it’s not the case for all i get that and many get far greater opportunities to prove themselves than others.

I agree there is a lot of ego and touch of incompetence involved with these things but remember most are just volunteers or loving parents, very few are getting paid

 

[Doona2]

You blokes are acting like it’s new issue. . This has been the system for ever and a day, just in different forms. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. . Some kids and in turn their clubs get the raw end of the deal and yes there is bias and advantages for certain clubs and certain surnames but that’s been the same for as long as I’ve been involved in football.

The vast majority of top end talent one way or another will get their opportunity at some point to prove themselves too or in a talent pathway and it’s on them whether they take that opportunity. Admittedly it’s not the case for all i get that and many get far greater opportunities to prove themselves than others.

I agree there is a lot of ego and touch of incompetence involved with these things but remember most are just volunteers or loving parents, very few are getting paid

No arguments here Neon, think I'm just bored, currently unemployed and fall into the streams of communication to kill time or occupy a racey, at times cognitive compromised/fixated mind when topics of passion arise.

Guess I'm like that poor bugger who unintentionally butts in all the time, not to supersede the story or show disrespect, but more so as it aligns with a past experience and/or a memory.

 

[Jack Kelly]

That's where the support networks around our young, vulnerable, impressionable are critical.

There'll continue to be kids or young men into their 20's bob up, because those around them backed them in when others didn't, and continued to support them in their dreams and aspirations to keep going.

It's always a potential "Yes" until it's a definite "No" from someone well higher than local level, rep, the pathways and Big Footy ha ha

FYI I flagged a few young men/women over the last few years, a couple got VFL trials, obviously many don't as list profiling, wants/needs etc vary, but all you passionate football people can still play a big part in ensuring the right players are in conversations, and if it's a no then at least you've tried.

Some of those higher up,who give the no call,are not as smart as they think they are.Names i have already mentioned and how about slug Jordan and Ezard.Once again, Cleary took Ezard to Coburg.It was Cleary's recommendation that got his chance at VFA

 

[Del233027]

You blokes are acting like it’s new issue. . This has been the system for ever and a day, just in different forms. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. . Some kids and in turn their clubs get the raw end of the deal and yes there is bias and advantages for certain clubs and certain surnames but that’s been the same for as long as I’ve been involved in football.

The vast majority of top end talent one way or another will get their opportunity at some point to prove themselves too or in a talent pathway and it’s on them whether they take that opportunity. Admittedly it’s not the case for all i get that and many get far greater opportunities to prove themselves than others.

I agree there is a lot of ego and touch of incompetence involved with these things but remember most are just volunteers or loving parents, very few are getting paid

With school footy starting to take over now, why have it?
This wasnt the case 10 years ago.

Look at how polished the aps kids are that are drafted compared to Coates League and state footy.
Daicos, ashcroft sheezal all instant impact and were able to cope with the demands of afl footy straight away

Harley reid and Horne Francis, maybe more talented, both very rough diamonds coming into the afl system and taking far more time not only with the demands but professionalism.

Our game is turning into an elitist sport now, most kids are now drafted from these schools and from Sandy and oakeligh, compare that to 20 years ago with the cannons and falcons getting kids drafted and there wasnt the same influence from aps schools, in 5 years time 80% of the draft will from these schools and the afl dont care

 

[western royboy]

With school footy starting to take over now, why have it?
This wasnt the case 10 years ago.

Look at how polished the aps kids are that are drafted compared to Coates League and state footy.
Daicos, ashcroft sheezal all instant impact and were able to cope with the demands of afl footy straight away

Harley reid and Horne Francis, maybe more talented, both very rough diamonds coming into the afl system and taking far more time not only with the demands but professionalism.

Our game is turning into an elitist sport now, most kids are now drafted from these schools and from Sandy and oakeligh, compare that to 20 years ago with the cannons and falcons getting kids drafted and there wasnt the same influence from aps schools, in 5 years time 80% of the draft will from these schools and the afl dont care

Sadly, we have gone down the American model. Another sport I am involved in has blindly followed the yanks as well…it will be finished in 5 years.

 

[Wooden Robot]

Apparently if you picked teams in postcodes they would have the two best players in the league in the middle one of the best shooters and two young guns who will be in the best players for the next 15 years so it wouldn’t be a bad side

Not that simple.

• A lot of those girls are now entrenched at their clubs – Flat, Sandhurst etc. – and won’t ever go back.
• Even if they did, the top three are that strong they would beat most footy-netball league clubs in Victoria, including the premiers of pretty much every league.

To put it into perspective, Castlemaine had a team stacked with former national league (SSN) and state league talent in 2022 and 2023 - players who played in the Super Netball league and Australian Netball League (equivalent of national championships), as well as Victorian Netball League – a few more listed as SSN training partners. The team was stacked, but the Pies only managed to finish fourth in 2022 and third in 2023.

That’s how strong Sandhurst, Flat and Gisborne are, not to mention the depth they have to cover any losses when a player steps away for outside commitments.

Sandhurst and Flat would each lose a player to Castlemaine, whom have shared the last three league medals, but both clubs would simply recruit or elevate another gun.

 

[Jack Doolan]

Not that simple.

• A lot of those girls are now entrenched at their clubs – Flat, Sandhurst etc. – and won’t ever go back.
• Even if they did, the top three are that strong they would beat most footy-netball league clubs in Victoria, including the premiers of pretty much every league.

To put it into perspective, Castlemaine had a team stacked with former national league (SSN) and state league talent in 2022 and 2023 - players who played in the Super Netball league and Australian Netball League (equivalent of national championships), as well as Victorian Netball League – a few more listed as SSN training partners. The team was stacked, but the Pies only managed to finish fourth in 2022 and third in 2023.

That’s how strong Sandhurst, Flat and Gisborne are, not to mention the depth they have to cover any losses when a player steps away for outside commitments.

Sandhurst and Flat would each lose a player to Castlemaine, whom have shared the last three league medals, but both clubs would simply recruit or elevate another gun.

I think the point is they currently don’t have an a grade team yet they have enough former players who have been poached by other clubs to make a very good a grade side
As you say those clubs already have plenty of talent waiting on the sidelines so how does it do anyone any good to decimate a club like that?
I would have thought that was exactly the sort of thing the league should take action to stop but having seen first hand what goes on behind the scenes with netball I’d say some key people would be party to it

 

[Shinjuku]

I think the point is they currently don’t have an a grade team yet they have enough former players who have been poached by other clubs to make a very good a grade side
As you say those clubs already have plenty of talent waiting on the sidelines so how does it do anyone any good to decimate a club like that?
I would have thought that was exactly the sort of thing the league should take action to stop but having seen first hand what goes on behind the scenes with netball I’d say some key people would be party to it

My understanding is that a points system is being introduced in 2026 for netball. Will be interesting to see the impact

 

[Jack Doolan]

My understanding is that a points system is being introduced in 2026 for netball. Will be interesting to see the impact

I’d say the same impact it has on footy none or if anything make the bigger clubs stronger due to junior numbers
Or the poaching will just start earlier

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

With school footy starting to take over now, why have it?
This wasnt the case 10 years ago.

Look at how polished the aps kids are that are drafted compared to Coates League and state footy.
Daicos, ashcroft sheezal all instant impact and were able to cope with the demands of afl footy straight away

Harley reid and Horne Francis, maybe more talented, both very rough diamonds coming into the afl system and taking far more time not only with the demands but professionalism.

Our game is turning into an elitist sport now, most kids are now drafted from these schools and from Sandy and oakeligh, compare that to 20 years ago with the cannons and falcons getting kids drafted and there wasnt the same influence from aps schools, in 5 years time 80% of the draft will from these schools and the afl dont care

Ashcrofts and daicos brothers have been within their afl clubs landscape since they learnt to walk . Completely different scenario for a Harley Reid who probably only knew that he was heading interstate a week or so prior to be drafted .