Strategy Best 22 in 2014

[4quarter_cat]

I really like the idea of our 22 we had yesterday with Hartman replaced by Stokes.

However Murdoch was terrible, and I'd like to see Brown given another opportunity in his place. For a couple of weeks before we throw him out at the end of the year.

 

[Jon Douglas]

A few things I think are worthy of note.

1. Thought Simpson was ahead of HMac as first ruck (and I only want first ruckman and Blitz s second ruckman) but now it seems Hmac is fitter and can be long enough in the middle to make a difference. He is better around the ground than Simpson and provides a decent ruck contest. Looks a bit unco to me but gets the job done and is now head of Simpson for a finals berth.

Even though Simpson is the future and Hmac may only have another season after this one in him (and that is why was advocating Simpson over Hmac in the team this year) if we can win a final or two it would be great for the development of the youngsters and keep us fans believing we could snatch a flag in the next 2-3 seasons. All good. Hmac is the front runner (especially as I read Simspon was only so-so in the VFL yesterday).

2. Great to see Rivers gain some form and contribute well. However we are too slow in the backline and we need someone to be able to close down a small forward and have run out of the backline and who is decent kick and decent decision maker.

We put Varcoe down back to get the run and he is decent kicker and decision maker - but he is no lock down backman. So he is not the guy (although a decent idea by GFC if they are trialling him as the lose back or seventh backman).

We could put Guthrie back. He is quite quick, negates a player well, has good judgement, good mark and a good kick. Perfect. He looks a bit tired for me right now so play him back for the next few weeks and that might help freshen him wherever he ends up being played come finals.

This is the ideal for me as he is a proven player down back. But then Geelong need to take someone out of the back 6 (and maybe Varcoe if he is the 7 th backman).

That means either we play a slow bigger backmen or move someone else out of the established back 6 - and we have often had Kelly down while Guthrie went to the midfield. But he is good there but I think a bit slow given we have no real leg speed or runner down back.

Bews is another option but I think Guthrie is ahead of him in development as a backman in the Geelong team.

So no easy solution - but I think it should happen. Play Kelly on the ball a bit more. He is pretty good at getting his own inside ball and is probably our best tackler. Both good assets to have when playing a midfield role. He can also be used to replace Guthrie when he comes off or when Guthrie is taken from the back 6 to lock down a player during a game. So still role for Kelly.

So for me -

Rivers Lonergan Enright

Guthrie Taylor Mackie

With Varcoe playing lose man in defence (or maybe Jimmy at times) and Kelly to play a fair proportion of his time in the midfield.

3. I think a midfield consisting of (and in order of the most used) -

Selwood, SJ, GHS, Bundy, Kelly, Caddy and Stokes (7 players makes the main group reasonably deep). We just have to hope this forms a strong midfield and we can negate losing the clearances by too much against other finalist teams. Because IMO where we will win or lose a final in a general sense will be the midfield. If we get ripped in the middle and clearances I think we will lose, as most teams generally do.

4. Only 3 player who are currently best 22 could be threatened is someone starred in the VFL in the next 3-4 weeks, are Caddy, GHS and Murdoch (and maybe Hmac if Simpson did suddenly really perform). The rest are locks I reckon.

GHS has been rested/subbed recently so hard to judge how he is going right this minute. Plays a few good games (20 + possies, lots of tackles, hits up leading forward players and kicks a goal) and he will have locked his spot IMO.

Caddy - well he needs a bit more time be having only come back from injury. And GFC keen to really want him out there. I am not as convinced about him but I would give him another 3-4 senior games and see if he starts to have more impact in games.

Murdoch has been ok this year and given his experience he has developed quite well this year. But he is probably in the later end of our best 22 players. Looks a tad tired so a week off sometime soon maybe a good thing. Geelong must think he will make and re just giving him as many games as possible. But he needs to contribute more than has is a final if he is not to be a weak link in the team.

4. It is really hard to see anyone breaking into this team without an injury or rest being the case. Maybe Bews has some slim chance. Even less chance of Hartman, Billie, Thurlow, Lang, Burbury, McCarthy or JJ.

So get Stokes back in, move Guthrie back and play Kelly a bit more in the midfield. And just hope we play well and Sydney and Freo have an off day when we meet them in a final (if we do of course). Stranger things have happened.

 

[candiehappy]

I think the 22 is nailed on right now. Maybe Hartman can push into the team before the end of the year but with perhaps the exception of Meto's man crush (Varcoe) pretty much everyone I think would agree the best 22 is as YOTC suggested.

FB: Rivers Lonergan Enright
HB: Kelly Taylor Mackie
C: Duncan Selwood Motlop
HF: Stokes Kersten Bartel
FF: Murdoch Hawkins Christenson
R: McIntosh Johnson Guthrie
Int: Caddy, Blicavs, GHS Varcoe

GHS, Caddy, Christenson, Stokes, Bartel and Kelly all rotation as inside mids. With Guthrie and Kelly sharing time down back. The rest including Selwood I'd like to see spend some time forward. Varcoe potentially as a sweeper down back or at least on a very poor marking option otherwise adding defensive pressure in the forwardline.

I think that is the best that we have. TBH, not as good on paper as either sydney or hawthorn. It would need a few special efforts...

 

[Stucky]

I think the 22 is nailed on right now. Maybe Hartman can push into the team before the end of the year but with perhaps the exception of Meto's man crush (Varcoe) pretty much everyone I think would agree the best 22 is as YOTC suggested.

FB: Rivers Lonergan Enright
HB: Kelly Taylor Mackie
C: Duncan Selwood Motlop
HF: Stokes Kersten Bartel
FF: Murdoch Hawkins Christenson
R: McIntosh Johnson Guthrie
Int: Caddy, Blicavs, GHS Varcoe

GHS, Caddy, Christenson, Stokes, Bartel and Kelly all rotation as inside mids. With Guthrie and Kelly sharing time down back. The rest including Selwood I'd like to see spend some time forward. Varcoe potentially as a sweeper down back or at least on a very poor marking option otherwise adding defensive pressure in the forwardline.

I like this team. If we can get them all in form before finals and we have a good draw, we'll give it a shake.

 

[DanA]

I like this team. If we can get them all in form before finals and we have a good draw, we'll give it a shake.

That's my feeling. Sydney are a pretty impressive outfit at the moment and the prospect of Buddy and Tippet firing with their midfield is a scary prospect. But I think our team can compete with them. Particularly if it's not at the SCG.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I think the 22 is nailed on right now. Maybe Hartman can push into the team before the end of the year but with perhaps the exception of Meto's man crush (Varcoe) pretty much everyone I think would agree the best 22 is as YOTC suggested.

FB: Rivers Lonergan Enright
HB: Kelly Taylor Mackie
C: Duncan Selwood Motlop
HF: Stokes Kersten Bartel
FF: Murdoch Hawkins Christenson
R: McIntosh Johnson Guthrie
Int: Caddy, Blicavs, GHS Varcoe

GHS, Caddy, Christenson, Stokes, Bartel and Kelly all rotation as inside mids. With Guthrie and Kelly sharing time down back. The rest including Selwood I'd like to see spend some time forward. Varcoe potentially as a sweeper down back or at least on a very poor marking option otherwise adding defensive pressure in the forwardline.

I would have the same best 22 but I want 2 ruckman so simpson comes in for murdoch.I just feel its best to go with the two big guys given our opposition in september.

Against freo 2 ruckman will help negate the impact of sandilands
Against hawthorn mcintosh can go forward and stretch their defence
Against sydney not so much but we can get an advantage in this area

do any other geelong supporters want 2 ruckman ?

by the way I would use Blicavs on the wing

 

[manboob]

Lang got 12 clearances yesterday in the VFL...

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

I would have the same best 22 but I want 2 ruckman so simpson comes in for murdoch.I just feel its best to go with the two big guys given our opposition in september.

Against freo 2 ruckman will help negate the impact of sandilands
Against hawthorn mcintosh can go forward and stretch their defence
Against sydney not so much but we can get an advantage in this area

do any other geelong supporters want 2 ruckman ?

by the way I would use Blicavs on the wing

I don't think our best setup is Simpson, Hmac and Blitz unless you're dropping Lonergan/Mackie/Rivers and Blitz plays back. Blitz just wasn't getting enough of the ball when he was playing more a pure wingman.

On top of that, HMac hasn't shown me anything of late that he can stretch a defence going forward, don't recall him taking very many F50 marks. Wishful thinking IMO and further reduces our forwardline mobility and lack of ground level pace.

And also dropping Murdoch to have that setup just exacerbates our need for crumbing forward that can provide some defensive pressure. I just don't think Simson, HMac and Blitz can play in the same side combined with a backline comprising of Taylor, Lonergan, Mackie & Rivers. Just too tall.

 

[4quarter_cat]

I think the 22 is nailed on right now. Maybe Hartman can push into the team before the end of the year but with perhaps the exception of Meto's man crush (Varcoe) pretty much everyone I think would agree the best 22 is as YOTC suggested.

FB: Rivers Lonergan Enright
HB: Kelly Taylor Mackie
C: Duncan Selwood Motlop
HF: Stokes Kersten Bartel
FF: Murdoch Hawkins Christenson
R: McIntosh Johnson Guthrie
Int: Caddy, Blicavs, GHS Varcoe

GHS, Caddy, Christenson, Stokes, Bartel and Kelly all rotation as inside mids. With Guthrie and Kelly sharing time down back. The rest including Selwood I'd like to see spend some time forward. Varcoe potentially as a sweeper down back or at least on a very poor marking option otherwise adding defensive pressure in the forwardline.

I think this line up is almost exactly right, but I'd like to try someone. McCarthy is back and was aparently BOG in magoos this week. His forward pressure at the start of the year was immense. I would love to see him given another bite at the cherry before finals. Probably at the expense of murdoch.

 

[BlitzenTrapper]

Lang got 12 clearances yesterday in the VFL...

Also McCarthy booted 4 and was named as one of the best.

Hard team to crack into, and I know he's coming off an injury, but I'm a fan of Linc.
Hope he gets a go in the next month or so.

 

[El Dubya]

Also McCarthy booted 4 and was named as one of the best.

Hard team to crack into, and I know he's coming off an injury, but I'm a fan of Linc.
Hope he gets a go in the next month or so.

It's a shame he and Murdoch are hitting form simultaneously, otherwise I'd suggest giving Murdoch some VFL time.

 

[FredLeDeux]

It's a shame he and Murdoch are hitting form simultaneously, otherwise I'd suggest giving Murdoch some VFL time.

Wot wot wot wot?!
His stats indicate a very even season by Murdoch, with no recent improvement, as does simple observation of his performances.

 

[El Dubya]

Wot wot wot wot?!
His stats indicate a very even season by Murdoch, with no recent improvement, as does simple observation of his performances.

I disagree, I'd say he's becoming more composed in this back third or so of the season, less fumbles less jittery. Haven't had a look at his stats, but I would say at the beginning of the year he looked out of his depth at times, now significantly less so, possibly due to the presence of Kersten making the forwardline so much better structured.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I disagree, I'd say he's becoming more composed in this back third or so of the season, less fumbles less jittery. Haven't had a look at his stats, but I would say at the beginning of the year he looked out of his depth at times, now significantly less so, possibly due to the presence of Kersten making the forwardline so much better structured.

Ultimately a matter of opinion, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
However, there seem to be a lot of people in various parts of the Board who think he's gone backwards, to the extent that many are calling for him to be dropped. I think you are probably in a minority of those who have posted on the issue.
Not that majorities mean a pinch of snuff when it comes to what is essentially a matter of opinion.

 

[Cataholic]

On top of that, HMac hasn't shown me anything of late that he can stretch a defence going forward, don't recall him taking very many F50 marks. Wishful thinking IMO and further reduces our forwardline mobility and lack of ground level pace.

Agreed.

I haven't seen a game yet (this year) where I thought HMac posed any serious threat to the opposition's defence, and if he has, he certainly hasn't put the advantage on the scoreboard.

His pace and reflexes are akin to treacle, and I agree with your sentiment that his presence in our F50 severely compromises our mobility, pace and structure.

 

[El Dubya]

Ultimately a matter of opinion, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
However, there seem to be a lot of people in various parts of the Board who think he's gone backwards, to the extent that many are calling for him to be dropped. I think you are probably in a minority of those who have posted on the issue.
Not that majorities mean a pinch of snuff when it comes to what is essentially a matter of opinion.

I've come around since he's lost what I saw a jitters and is making the most of opportunities. I think dropping him now would seriously damage his confidence.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

Lang got 12 clearances yesterday in the VFL...

I like Lang from the little of seen of him (couple of VFL games on Iview, his AFL debut) and am excited about his future. But surely too green to bring into the side now, at the business end?

I don't think we will see too many changes (barring injury) from the side that lined up last week. Obviously Bundy comes in and there is the issue of Simpson or Blicavs. I am also a bit iffy on Murdoch, but am prepared for MC to give him a couple more goes around.

The line up is starting to look settled IMO.

 

[bulletproof]

Is anyone surprised how established the order is in terms of best 22 at this stage of the season?

Normally at this time of year, we are talking about selection headaches and unlucky players...but this year...nothing.

Feels unusual to me. Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

Hopefully the debate doesn't open up again because that will mean injuries, but I would like a bigger squad of players who are demanding to to be picked....

 

[manboob]

Of the players remaining, I think Smedts, Hartman or McCarthy have a really good opportunity of cementing their spot in time for finals. Brown, Walker, Hunt, Stringer & Sheringham just don't appear to be doing enough to warrant selection at this stage.

I ****ing hope none of these players are seen in September. Sorry buddy - but if any of them make into the side we're ****ed or have been ****ed by injury.

 

[catempire]

Is anyone surprised how established the order is in terms of best 22 at this stage of the season?

Normally at this time of year, we are talking about selection headaches and unlucky players...but this year...nothing.

Feels unusual to me. Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

Hopefully the debate doesn't open up again because that will mean injuries, but I would like a bigger squad of players who are demanding to to be picked....

It's great that we have best 22 available but I think the fact it's so settled is a reflection of our relative lack of depth. In previous years we had players playing VFL footy that were unquestionably AFL standard. Right now all our VFL guys that are next in line are essentially yet to prove themselves.

 

[FredLeDeux]

It's great that we have best 22 available but I think the fact it's so settled is a reflection of our relative lack of depth. In previous years we had players playing VFL footy that were unquestionably AFL standard. Right now all our VFL guys that are next in line are essentially yet to prove themselves.

I think all of them have shown, when given the chance, that they can play AFL in the sense that they are not completely out of place there. What none of them has so far shown is how good they can or would be if given an extended run at it, ie whether they are good enough to be a regular AFL player or, more importantly, an AFL Finals-standard player.

 

[catempire]

I think all of them have shown, when given the chance, that they can play AFL in the sense that they are not completely out of place there. What none of them has so far shown is how good they can or would be if given an extended run at it, ie whether they are good enough to be a regular AFL player or, more importantly, an AFL Finals-standard player.

Yep, all true. When you think back to the marginal calls on our Grand Final years though, for example, we had as emergencies:

2007: Brent Prismall, Travis Varcoe, Mark Blake
2008: David Wojcinski, Ryan Gamble, Shannon Byrnes
2009: Shane Mumford, Simon Hogan, Mathew Stokes
2011: Darren Milburn, Shannnon Byrnes, Cameron Guthrie

There's some real quality there. I don't think we can say - at least yet - that those next in line in the VFL are likely to be of that calibre.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yep, all true. When you think back to the marginal calls on our Grand Final years though, for example, we had as emergencies:

2007: Brent Prismall, Travis Varcoe, Mark Blake
2008: David Wojcinski, Ryan Gamble, Shannon Byrnes
2009: Shane Mumford, Simon Hogan, Mathew Stokes
2011: Darren Milburn, Shannnon Byrnes, Cameron Guthrie

There's some real quality there. I don't think we can say - at least yet - that those next in line in the VFL are likely to be of that calibre.

Agree, this has been my concern all along when people talk about our depth, I simply haven't seen enough from these 2nds players to suggest that they are going to be Finals-standard players. Some may prove to be in time, because they have generally played very few games, but I haven't seen it yet. And the same actually applies to the last couple in the 1sts, eg Murdoch and Kersten, though the latter has done a little more to indicate he may be a long-term prospect.

 

[catempire]

Agree, this has been my concern all along when people talk about our depth, I simply haven't seen enough from these 2nds players to suggest that they are going to be Finals-standard players. Some may prove to be in time, because they have generally played very few games, but I haven't seen it yet. And the same actually applies to the last couple in the 1sts, eg Murdoch and Kersten, though the latter has done a little more to indicate he may be a long-term prospect.

Indeed. Because of the age profile of the list, we don't have a bunch of 22-26 year olds who are established yet not Best 22 locks. We have a bunch of players all 21 y.o. or under (18 of them, in fact) and only a few - Guthrie, Caddy and GHS - have established their credentials (with Kersten not far off if he continues on the same trajectory). It is quite an imbalance really that will take a number of years yet to put us in the Premiership frame, IMO.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Indeed. Because of the age profile of the list, we don't have a bunch of 22-26 year olds who are established yet not Best 22 locks. We have a bunch of players all 21 y.o. or under (18 of them, in fact) and only a few - Guthrie, Caddy and GHS - have established their credentials (with Kersten not far off if he continues on the same trajectory). It is quite an imbalance really that will take a number of years yet to put us in the Premiership frame, IMO.

Agreed, I simply can't see, on revealed form and ability so far, enough improvement coming from the younger ones in 2015-17 to compensate for the inevitable retirements/decline of the older stars over those 3 years. I think we'll still be thereabouts, because none of the other 15 older clubs are any better off than us (due to no access to the best young recruits for the last 5 years), but I simply don't see how we can be objectively better in those 3 years than we are now.