Best 23, Round 1 2024

[Whoyagot]

Can anyone name an intraclub this preseason where Lobb dominated and could have kicked 6? Darcy over Lobb any day of the week right now. He’ll only get better with game time too

 

[Whoyagot]

I have only 12 lock in players this season. Maybe a bit harsh on some like Bailey Williams if we are to have a good season probably need another 6 to become locks and the locks to justify their status.

ADZ
JUH
Cody
Bont
Jacko
Liam
Red
Libba
Bailey Dale
Astro
Caleb
Tim

Caleb isn’t a lock imo but otherwise I agree

 

[Mojorisin]

Can anyone name an intraclub this preseason where Lobb dominated and could have kicked 6? Darcy over Lobb any day of the week right now. He’ll only get better with game time too

Not to rain on your parade but Darcy "could've" kicked 6, which is very different to kicking 6. He was also lined up against khamis who he has a 20cm hight advantage over.

 

[maddog37]

Caleb isn’t a lock imo but otherwise I agree

That would be quite surprising to Caleb I would think.

 

[adogsfan5]

B: Richards Jones Coffield
HB: Dale Oddonell JJ
C: Treloar Bontempelli Williams
HF: Harmes Naughton West
F: Darcy Ugle-Hagan Weightman
R: English Liberatore Sanders
Int: Macrae Daniel Poulter Scott
Sub: Gallagher

Emg: Busslinger Lobb Baker

 

[Whoyagot]

Not to rain on your parade but Darcy "could've" kicked 6, which is very different to kicking 6. He was also lined up against khamis who he has a 20cm hight advantage over.

I'd imagine he'd get the third banana lining up with Naughty and Jamarra as well. Darcy can break games, Lobb has never shown that ability. I don't think Lobbs bad by any means and I think he and Darcy will dual it out for that forward/ruck role through out the year. I think it's important there's pressure on that role for both players. Right now though Darcy is a top 5 talent on our list and needs to be fast tracked, especially if he's showing more on the training track then lobb.

 

[cecil]

FB: Coffield, Jones, JJ
HB: Richards, JOD, Dale
C: Poulter, Libba, Williams
HF: Harmes, Naughton, A.Jones
FF: Weightman, JUH, Lobb
R: English, Bont, Treloar
Int: Macrae, Khamis, Daniel, West
Sub: Sanders
Emerg: Darcy, Scott, Keath, Duryea

 

[Charlie Bucket]

B Richards Jones Khamis
HB Dale O’Donnell JJ
C Williams Bont Treloar
HF Harmes Marra Gallagher
FF Flea Naughts Darcy
R English Libba Sanders
I Macrae Daniel Poulter Coffield


Khamis been good down back during pre season apparently. We desperately need that intercepting player, let’s see how it looks.

Throw Sanders straight in there. Kids going to be a star. Will bring some much needed youth and enthusiasm to our midfield group.

Gallagher sounds ready. Give him 60/20/20 Fwd/mid/bench and see if he can bring some much needed energy at ground level in our fwd 50. He and Sanders down there could be nice paring at times at times.

Was on Lobb previously, but again, pre season reports are that Darcy is coming in hot. Add another firing youngster to the mix and let’s see what happens.

We’ve had a bit of a stale 22 the last few years. Would be nice to see a significantly changed team come round 1. Considering pre season reports are noting a few of the youngsters doing really well, get ‘em in there, hopefully brings some energy and enthusiasm in the older group.

 

[Mojorisin]

I'd imagine he'd get the third banana lining up with Naughty and Jamarra as well. Darcy can break games, Lobb has never shown that ability. I don't think Lobbs bad by any means and I think he and Darcy will dual it out for that forward/ruck role through out the year. I think it's important there's pressure on that role for both players. Right now though Darcy is a top 5 talent on our list and needs to be fast tracked, especially if he's showing more on the training track then lobb.

I completely agree pressure on spots especially for talls is fantastic and something we haven't seen for a long time (or ever).
The scary thing is Darcy is still a kid and quickly closing in on equaling or overtaking Lobb. Darcy is going to be an absolute star and one of the top 10 talls in the league before long if his body let's him in my opinion.

In terms of fast tracking by playing AFL it's a very sharp two edge sword, although you can get players to develop sooner, you can also burn them out or kill their confidence and potentially push them into the best 22 without a clear spot for them just to have them their and end up playing someone out of position.

I'd much rather be patient, give him atleast a 4 week block of games in the VFL letting him not only get continuity in his game but also in his body. If after that he is in good shape and his form demands it then play AFL with a full head of steam.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

We really need JOD to stand up down back. Big ask taking the second-best opposition tall forward each week in his second season. Shows a lot of promise but if he does not stand up we be falling back to likes of Keath and Gardiner who are taking us nowhere.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I completely agree pressure on spots especially for talls is fantastic and something we haven't seen for a long time (or ever).
The scary thing is Darcy is still a kid and quickly closing in on equaling or overtaking Lobb. Darcy is going to be an absolute star and one of the top 10 talls in the league before long if his body let's him in my opinion.

In terms of fast tracking by playing AFL it's a very sharp two edge sword, although you can get players to develop sooner, you can also burn them out or kill their confidence and potentially push them into the best 22 without a clear spot for them just to have them their and end up playing someone out of position.

I'd much rather be patient, give him atleast a 4 week block of games in the VFL letting him not only get continuity in his game but also in his body. If after that he is in good shape and his form demands it then play AFL with a full head of steam.

This is probably the most likely thing to happen.

Could be a scary month for a few VFL backmen.

 

[Foxman98]

FB: Coffield Jones Khamis

HB: Dale JOD Richards

C: Gags Libba Truck

HF: Harmes Naughts Macrae

FF: Lobb JUH Flea

R: English Bont Sanders

INT: Darcy Daniel Treloar JJ

Sub: West/Clarke/Buss

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I think it gets consistently undersold here just how hard it is to be a ruck/forward who contributes in both sections of the ground.

Of the key forwards who averaged more goals than Lobb (1.2), none averaged more hitouts than he had (7.8). The only player remotely close is Dixon (7.4), and then we drop down to Chol (3.1).

To frame it differently, he manages to kick over a goal a game while offering more in the ruck than any other player who does so.

Now, obviously his hitout number is skewed because of a handful of games where he had longer stints in the ruck, but:

1. Even if I exclude games with 10+ hitouts, he still averages over 5 per game and thus outpoints all but one player;
2. This helps my point anyway, as it shows he has the ability to be a tactical asset in multiple roles.

Lobb is a limited player, but one that balances both elements of his role better than most other second rucks in the league. His value is therefore in the net positive rating he is able to bring to both parts of the ground.

Darcy, all going well, should be a better player than Lobb in time. It is going to be supremely difficult, though, for him to match what Lobb is providing in both roles.

Darcy may be able to match or exceed Lobb's output in one area of the ground (though it is worth noting that he has only really had one AFL standard game in the forward line so far, so this is still a big ask with only preseason form to go off of), but if we hold that we need a player that can contribute both as a scoring threat AND a serviceable backup to English, Darcy's chances of besting what Lobb manages are slim.

 

[Fossie 32]

I think it gets consistently undersold here just how hard it is to be a ruck/forward who contributes in both sections of the ground.

Of the key forwards who averaged more goals than Lobb (1.2), none averaged more hitouts than he had (7.8). The only player remotely close is Dixon (7.4), and then we drop down to Chol (3.1).

To frame it differently, he manages to kick over a goal a game while offering more in the ruck than any other player who does so.

Now, obviously his hitout number is skewed because of a handful of games where he had longer stints in the ruck, but:

1. Even if I exclude games with 10+ hitouts, he still averages over 5 per game and thus outpoints all but one player;
2. This helps my point anyway, as it shows he has the ability to be a tactical asset in multiple roles.

Lobb is a limited player, but one that balances both elements of his role better than most other second rucks in the league. His value is therefore in the net positive rating he is able to bring to both parts of the ground.

Darcy, all going well, should be a better player than Lobb in time. It is going to be supremely difficult, though, for him to match what Lobb is providing in both roles.

Darcy may be able to match or exceed Lobb's output in one area of the ground (though it is worth noting that he has only really had one AFL standard game in the forward line so far, so this is still a big ask with only preseason form to go off of), but if we hold that we need a player that can contribute both as a scoring threat AND a serviceable backup to English, Darcy's chances of besting what Lobb manages are slim.

His chances are slim atm or ever? I would think from what Darcy has shown so far he will develop to match and better the Lobbster

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

His chances are slim atm or ever? I would think from what Darcy has shown so far he will develop to match and better the Lobbster

Right now, I mean. If Darcy can get his body right I have as much respect for his ability as anyone on the list.

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Darcy already has passed Lobb on attack and that’s his key role for 80%+ of the time. English is far better 80%+ in ruck.

But, his body is not at Lobbs level and if we bring him in too far too soon we could do real damage. Ayce Cordy

Ayce Cordy

Age

33

Ht

204cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

4.3

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.0

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

6.0

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.2

3star

was a star but within a few years he couldn’t lift his arms above his shoulders.

Darcy is a rare talent like Jamarra and we did the right thing by him by taking it slow. Hopefully we will do the same with D3.

Jamarra, Naughton, Darcy and Weightman are a premiership forward line add a pressure forward (West) and speed (not clear) and look out. 4 genuine stars for 10 years). Is all we need. This is worth protecting.

Mids have 4 stars at least for a few years with other options: Bont, Libba, Trelor, Macrae, as stars with Daniel, Smith (Adding something and will replace when older players slow), Sanders as a potential future unproven star and solid backup in Harmes and Garcia.

Defence not so much: Jones (Star but aging) Richards and Dale, JJ and Keath if fit but aging. So possible 5 but Only two with longevity. JOD coming through and Duryea adding something, Buss future star unproven and others not proven. Coffield, Gards and Cleary/Khamis will hopefully add something significant.

So like Darcy we need to do the same with JOD = he is maybe not the same level but he we have less assets so he is as valuable so protect him while he develops.

This was an incredibly left field ploy - slipped under everyone’s noses and was serviceable incredibly quickly - looking in cricket for a footy player. His speed and courage is incredible and but more his reading of the play for someone not in the elite system. Pure natural talent.

But just remembered our GF was a Fletch and Hamling (who played VFL for most of the year) and expect we will lose one or both of Jones and Keath at the end of the year and look to replace them with a solid journeyman.

That showed It’s as much about who is around them and how they operate as a tight unit as we saw in 2016 with Morris, Wood, JJ, Boyd, Bob/Shiggsy. 5 stars -

Most top teams for the past two years had stable lineups with the flexibility to handle any team - one star big intercept marker, and OK bigger body or solid lockdown tall, and mid talls (who could play on talls or smalls) and genuine fast and power smalls.

Looks like this is what we are also doing: Adding Coffield and focussing Khamis as mid talls will be really important. Coffield has talent and speed and all he needs is to stay fit. Khamis has talent and timing but lacks the speed - he can work on this. One of these will hold this role.

The natural development of Richards is our new Wood - a star and adds to that mix. At 188 he could play the mid tall and is fast enough to play on power smalls. Williams has many of the same characteristics but not the speed or flair (atm - seems to have lost a bit)

 

[dergert]

Lobb's form at the back end of last year has me confident he will be solid this year.

 

[stefoid]

Lobb is keeping Darce's spot warm, and that fine.

We have to move on from Duryea. His value has been that he is experienced and doesnt suck, without actually being excellent at any area. Probably Coffield is his upgrade.

 

[mattwa]

Really don't see why we can't beat Melbourne in round 1. They seem to have a stench around the joint. No clarry means they are weaker in the middle and I think JUH has already proven he can kick a bag against Melbourne

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Darcy already has passed Lobb on attack and that’s his key role for 80%+ of the time.

There is no evidence to support this at all.

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

There is no evidence to support this at all.

True - Very little but not none.

Darcy has shown an ability to get bags in VFL and has had periods where his marking in VFL and a very limited snapshot in the AFL looks more dangerous than what we have seen from Lobb.

Lobb’s best game in attack is still when he played against us. But agree right now my comment is an exaggeration.

To be fair Lobb has had 10 years against men and Darcy has only had flashes in VFL - but I wonder Lobb’s goal tally tells us: versus where we think Darcy could go if he played every game this year. My belief (not backed by much evidence is that he would beat 24 in a season.

2023 - 24
2022 - 36
2021 - 20
2020 - 10
2019 - 13
2018 - 11

 

[doggies ftw]

There is no evidence to support this at all.

Nothing concrete yet but he absolutely has at training from what I’ve seen and read - whether that translates to match day time will tell - you’d be ballsy to say it wouldn’t though tbh

Personally I’d simply look at it if we want to ruck English 60/40 I’m going Lobb, if we want to ruck English more like 80-85% (as we usually do) I’m easily taking Darcy for round 1.

Preseason will be interesting, I think Lobb would be fav for round 1 but I’d put good money on Darcy changing that decision if he sees significant preseason match time

 

[CarnTheScray]

We have to beat them otherwise I will go insane and get put away.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

True - Very little but not none.

Darcy has shown an ability to get bags in VFL and has had periods where his marking in VFL and a very limited snapshot in the AFL looks more dangerous than what we have seen from Lobb.

Lobb’s best game in attack is still when he played against us. But agree right now my comment is an exaggeration.

To be fair Lobb has had 10 years against men and Darcy has only had flashes in VFL - but I wonder Lobb’s goal tally tells us: versus where we think Darcy could go if he played every game this year. My belief (not backed by much evidence is that he would beat 24 in a season.

2023 - 24
2022 - 36
2021 - 20
2020 - 10
2019 - 13
2018 - 11

Nothing concrete yet but he absolutely has at training from what I’ve seen and read - whether that translates to match day time will tell - you’d be ballsy to say it wouldn’t though tbh

Personally I’d simply look at it if we want to ruck English 60/40 I’m going Lobb, if we want to ruck English more like 80-85% (as we usually do) I’m easily taking Darcy for round 1.

Preseason will be interesting, I think Lobb would be fav for round 1 but I’d put good money on Darcy changing that decision if he sees significant preseason match time

I love Darcy, but I think there are some pieces of evidence not being considered here.

Regarding training - yes, it seems Darcy has had a strong pre-season, most notably by all reports an awesome match sim. My recollection, though, is that the reports had him playing predominantly on Khamis. He was also dead last in our time trial, which is unsurprising, but a massive problem. These are pretty important points to consider when evaluating his preseason. He's looked hugely promising, but there isn't enough here to make those claims.

In terms of the VFL, Darcy has had some great outings. His last 5 VFL games were 0.0, 1.5, 3.0, 4.2, 1.3 - pretty good output for a young KPP. The conversion is a problem but Lobb is no Tory Dickson either so we can let that one slide. But we also need to consider Lobb's output at VFL level. This is a small sample size, but in his two games he had 2.1 and 5.3. Again, if your point for Darcy is that he has "shown an ability to get bags in VFL," so has Lobb. Similarly, the two had almost identical marking tallies in these games. These aren't points that separate the two.

Finally, regarding the belief that Darcy would best 24 goals in a year - this is just way too speculative. He's kicked 3 goals in 5 games as a forward at AFL level (0 goals in three 2023 games). Lobb kicked a goal in 75% of his games for us while also playing decent chunks in the ruck.

I have no doubt Darcy will be awesome (aside from concerns around his body). He certainly is a more talented forward than Lobb. If I'm picking a team to win a game tomorrow, though, there is just not close to enough evidence to suggest that Darcy is the better option.

 

[Dogsman16]

I'm still open to playing all of Naughton, JUH, lobb and Darcy. I don't think we saw enough sample size last year. They dominated against north in a trial and played poorly in Rd1. Thats really all we saw.

I'd still slightly lean towards lobb over darcy if the choice comes down to it though. Think lobb was under utilised in the ruck at times last year.