Biglands

[maccas_no1]

Please do not try and compare Mark Ricciuto, Simon Goodwin, Tyson Edwards and Andrew McLeod’s level of importance to the side to Kris Massie and his level of importance to the side.


It is not even close.

All players are important to the side, there is no 'I' in team. Ruccito isnt the player he was and never will be what he was, I doubt he will play past this year, Mcleod still struggles with his knee hence why he doesnt have a crack at the big stick from 50m out on the run anymore, Goodwin and Edwards are doing okay but they are getting older.

 

[maccas_no1]

Never assume as you will just make an arse out of yourself.

You email the club then with what you propose and post on this thread their reply to you

 

[maccas_no1]

There you go assuming things again.

I have assumed nothing Im waiting for players to prove themselves before slashing everyone else off the list.

So this season is just a waste of time as we can not win the premiership?

It's not a waste of time but we wont win the flag, I have already told you that, our structure is already in trouble

It’s called having an opinion, as apposed to contradicting myself.

Its okay to have an opinion but let others be entitled to theirs also without abusing them.

 

[Alex99]

Exactly C98 has jumped 18 mths ahead, basically come out and said every player on our list between the age of 25 and 30 is a dud and wants to get rid of them all

Nothing has been proved yet, Maric and Meeson havent proved themselves, Knights hasnt as yet, the only player that has proved themselves thus far is Van Berlo, get a grip on it all C98 and stop being abusive, nobody else has resorted to abuse, keep it up and your posts will be reported


Your statements as everyone else has told you are wrong on both Biglands and Massie, how about you listen to what you are being told instead of looking like a fool.

I will spell this out to you nice and simple ok.


I want to win a premiership ASAP (along with everyone else); I still have aspirations for this year (you do not and that is ok with me). As you have previously said in the last few years we have missed out golden opportunity (I am not arguing that) and it will take a few year before we can become a premiership threat again.

In this lean period (the next few years) I would like the side to stay as competitive as possible (this is why we need to develop the Van Berlo, Knights, Douglas, Maric, and Meesen with Ricciuto, Goodwin, Edwards and McLeod still in the side) because younger player learn more when they are winning than when they are losing. If we wait until the AA senior player retire before we instigate any major changes the side and then add younger player via a need basis we will have a few seasons like Carlton. That will not be acceptable.

ATM we have lots of good kids but they do not have any AFL playing experience IMO we should gradually delist players who are not going to get better (1 or 2 per year, not all at once FFS) so the kids can step up and assume that second tier leadership position so in 3 or 4 years time when Ricciuto, Goodwin, McLeod, Edwards have all retired they will have played about 100 games.

If you do not agree, I personally do not care but please stop implying things that I have allegedly said that are not correct.

 

[Alex99]

All players are important to the side, there is no 'I' in team. Ruccito isnt the player he was and never will be what he was, I doubt he will play past this year, Mcleod still struggles with his knee hence why he doesnt have a crack at the big stick from 50m out on the run anymore, Goodwin and Edwards are doing okay but they are getting older.

Preliminary final 2006, why didn’t Neil Craig just say "bugger it". Andrew McLeod and Brett Burton you are not needed and Kris Massie you can stay in the side.


But it didn’t happen as Andrew McLeod and Brett Burton offer more to the side than Kris Massie does.

 

[maccas_no1]

Preliminary final 2006, why didn’t Neil Craig just say "bugger it". Andrew McLeod and Brett Burton you are not needed and Kris Massie you can stay in the side.


But it didn’t happen as Andrew McLeod and Brett Burton offer more to the side than Kris Massie does.

It was more of a crunch game that needed to be won, I dont agree that Massie got dropped for the under done Mcleod or Burton, it cost us more than what we will ever know.

 

[maccas_no1]

I will spell this out to you nice and simple ok.


I want to win a premiership ASAP (along with everyone else); I still have aspirations for this year (you do not and that is ok with me). As you have previously said in the last few years we have missed out golden opportunity (I am not arguing that) and it will take a few year before we can become a premiership threat again.

In this lean period (the next few years) I would like the side to stay as competitive as possible (this is why we need to develop the Van Berlo, Knights, Douglas, Maric, and Meesen with Ricciuto, Goodwin, Edwards and McLeod still in the side) because younger player learn more when they are winning than when they are losing. If we wait until the AA senior player retire before we instigate any major changes the side and then add younger player via a need basis we will have a few seasons like Carlton. That will not be acceptable.

ATM we have lots of good kids but they do not have any AFL playing experience IMO we should gradually delist players who are not going to get better (1 or 2 per year, not all at once FFS) so the kids can step up and assume that second tier leadership position so in 3 or 4 years time when Ricciuto, Goodwin, McLeod, Edwards have all retired they will have played about 100 games.

If you do not agree, I personally do not care but please stop implying things that I have allegedly said that are not correct.

All well and good but it wont happen that way deal with it.

You are hoping it goes that way,as you know as well as we all do, once the top guns in Mcleod, Ruccito, Goodwin and Edwards all retire, the AFC will more than likely 'bottom out' ala Brisbane, which is Im afraid what is going to happen and no 'emergency plan' now will stop that from happening, but if you are a bit of a bandwagoner and are only in it when we are winning, then I feel sorry for you, you cant win every year it is impossible.

 

[Alex99]

Its okay to have an opinion but let others be entitled to theirs also without abusing them.

ok

Note to NC please in all your infanite wisdom please delist all our players between the ages of 25 -30 as C98 feels they are all crap

You are a dullard C98 everyone on this thread has told you the same thing I have yet you listen to nobody

 

[Alex99]

All well and good but it wont happen that way deal with it.

You are hoping it goes that way,as you know as well as we all do, once the top guns in Mcleod, Ruccito, Goodwin and Edwards all retire, the AFC will more than likely 'bottom out' ala Brisbane, which is Im afraid what is going to happen and no 'emergency plan' now will stop that from happening, but if you are a bit of a bandwagoner and are only in it when we are winning, then I feel sorry for you, you cant win every year it is impossible.

Who says that we have to ‘bottom out’?

You also do not have to let the inevitable happen and just accept defeat. Maybe you are a 'realist' but I am an 'optimist' and believe that you do not have to follow the same path to success as everyone else.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn’t call me a bandwagon fan.

 

[maccas_no1]

Who says that we have to ‘bottom out’?

You also do not have to let the inevitable happen and just accept defeat. Maybe you are a 'realist' but I am an 'optimist' and believe that you do not have to follow the same path to success as everyone else.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn’t call me a bandwagon fan.

Its the way the cycle goes, you just cant be at the top all the time ala Brisbane, you are going to bottom out eventually, thats all due to the draft and salary cap.

Our down cycle is about to begin, if you dont want to be a a part of it and only want to be part of when the club is doing well you can exit stage left right about now.

 

[Alex99]

Its the way the cycle goes, you just cant be at the top all the time ala Brisbane, you are going to bottom out eventually, thats all due to the draft and salary cap.

Our down cycle is about to begin, if you dont want to be a a part of it and only want to be part of when the club is doing well you can exit stage left right about now.

I appreciate that and accept what you are saying but realistically we do not have to finish 14th to 16th and completely bottom out. We can still manage to turn the list over by being a bit smarter out things and gradually introduced player at a specific time rather than on a needs basis. We could decrease that bottoming out period and still be semi successful.

 

[maccas_no1]

I appreciate that and accept what you are saying but realistically we do not have to finish 14th to 16th and completely bottom out. We can still manage to turn the list over by being a bit smarter out things and gradually introduced player at a specific time rather than on a needs basis. We could decrease that bottoming out period and still be semi successful.

Yet you expect the club to have a tilt at the flag every year????

You dont want the club to come anywhere apart from first????

Anit going to happen, we will bottom out or have poor seasons we have had our time in the sun, and instead of getting a tan and hot babes, we got burnt and someone wrote 'chokers' in sunscreen on our backs.

 

[Alex99]

Yet you expect the club to have a tilt at the flag every year????

Of course, doesn't everyone. I understand that we may not but you need to have that premiership desire.

You dont want the club to come anywhere apart from first????

Correct me if i am wrong but doesn't everyone?

Anit going to happen, we will bottom out or have poor seasons we have had our time in the sun, and instead of getting a tan and hot babes, we got burnt and someone wrote 'chokers' in sunscreen on our backs.

I understand that, either we are heading forward with an eye on the prize (the premiership) or we are treating water and basically wasting time. A premiership is won by putting the correct pieces of the puzzle in place over a number of years.

 

[maccas_no1]

Of course, doesn't everyone. I understand that we may not but you need to have that premiership desire.

Not really some clubs know when they are fair dinkum, they know if they want to break into the eight, they know if they are rebuilding, do you think Brisbane and its supporters honestly think they are going to win the Premiership this year?????

Correct me if i am wrong but doesn't everyone?

No not everyone does, some are realists like myself, ask others on the board start a seperate thread and ask AFC BF supporters if they feel we will win the flag in 2007

I understand that, either we are heading forward with an eye on the prize (the premiership) or we are treating water and basically wasting time. A premiership is won by putting the correct pieces of the puzzle in place over a number of years.

If we didnt have injuries to Hentschel and Biglands I would say we would be a chance at the flag, but they are two injuries to key areas, especially in our already floudering forwardline, Burton, McGregor, Welsh and Perrie are all injury prone and the latter three are hot and cold at best, Riccuito is very much up in the air how much of an impact he will have, how he body stands up.

Our defence is in very good shape which is a bonus, our midfeild whilst Edwards, Mcleod and Goodwin are in there is quite reasonable, our ruckmen well Maric and Meeson havent prooven anything just yet and Hudson is coming back from 18th months out so a cloud hangs over that area also.

Is that enough reasons as to why I think 2007 wont be our year????

 

[Asgardian]

Suspect rucks

No key position depth

Lack of pace over the whole ground, Roo, McLeod, Goodwin & Edwards all excellent players, but none of them would win a footrace. They have to substitute foot speed with ball speed, making the ball to do all the running, however that game style can crumble without perfect skills. I see to many Crows being put under pressure because of their lack of speed, hence their skills are subjected to error because of too much haste instead of enough speed.

 

[swanfan]

Suspect rucks

No key position depth

Lack of pace over the whole ground, Roo, McLeod, Goodwin & Edwards all excellent players, but none of them would win a footrace. They have to substitute foot speed with ball speed, making the ball to do all the running, however that game style can crumble without perfect skills. I see to many Crows being put under pressure because of their lack of speed, hence their skills are subjected to error because of too much haste instead of enough speed.

What are you basing this analysis on ?

 

[Mad Dog]

Lack of pace over the whole ground, Roo, McLeod, Goodwin & Edwards all excellent players, but none of them would win a footrace. They have to substitute foot speed with ball speed, making the ball to do all the running, however that game style can crumble without perfect skills. I see to many Crows being put under pressure because of their lack of speed, hence their skills are subjected to error because of too much haste instead of enough speed.

I think this is a major problem for us. Unfortunately not something you can train for - it needs to be recruited.

 

[Asgardian]

Suspect rucks, well because Clarke has gone, Biglands wont play this year, and is 30 for the 2008 season, Hudson is making a return from a knee reco & he'll be 28 for the 2007 season, Meesen has played 0 AFL games, and Maric has played 8 AFL games, Griffin has played 0 AFL games and Tippett, a rookie, already has a neck injury

To me that adds up to suspect rucks for 2007.

No key position depth, well this too is a simple one to answer.
Hentschell wont play in 2007
Bassett is 30, BP
Bock is okay, CHF or CHB
Gill is a 24 yo rookie forward
McGregor is a 26 yo who can't make the team ahead of Perrie, nuff said
Perrie, at 28 with bricks for hands
Ricciuto will be your 32 yo 183cm FF or FP
Rutten is a fine FB
Sellar is a rookie forward
Stevens is a stop gap CHB
Welsh is your 28 yo, 188cm when fit, only worth a one year contract, forward

So for a game, you need 2 rucks, 3 tall forwards, 3 tall backs, as a general guide. You're already missing Hentschell, you have no key position prospects on the Rookie List. What happens if you get the usual 2 or 3 serious injuries to your taller players?

Hence to me that adds up as a lack of key position depth.

Lack of pace, well this comment hasn't only come from me, you can find many here on your own board saying the same thing, if you did a search.
Hence because of a lack of leg speed, the Crows will rely on making the ball do their running, eg ball speed. This style of game is one requiring high levels of skill, and as we all know, pressure is the biggest test for skill. As most other teams will have greater leg speed, they, if they are motivated enough, will be able to close down their Crow opponent, putting him under pressure, creating more chances for the Crow skills to diminish.

THAT is how I see the Crows will lose some games.

Fair enough Swanfan?

 

[Crow-mo]

Ok I apologize, but where have I said that I endorse the delisting of all those players at once? I have only ever implied that Kris Massie and Rhett Biglands should be looked at.

surely, even you, appreciate that almost everyone will be looked at regardless?

my one and only comment on this debate is this:
when you start calling for delistings to make way for our young ruckman to get opportunities in future you ignore 2 basic realities:
1. we do not know how they will develop in the next 2 - 3 years. we hope, but don't know
2. I don't know - and neither do you - whether our lead ruckman in 2009 is even our list right now.

 

[maccas_no1]

Suspect rucks

No key position depth

Lack of pace over the whole ground, Roo, McLeod, Goodwin & Edwards all excellent players, but none of them would win a footrace. They have to substitute foot speed with ball speed, making the ball to do all the running, however that game style can crumble without perfect skills. I see to many Crows being put under pressure because of their lack of speed, hence their skills are subjected to error because of too much haste instead of enough speed.

Exactly hard running sides such as the Eagles and Bulldogs will tear us a new one. Now try get that through C98's head.

 

[maccas_no1]

Suspect rucks, well because Clarke has gone, Biglands wont play this year, and is 30 for the 2008 season, Hudson is making a return from a knee reco & he'll be 28 for the 2007 season, Meesen has played 0 AFL games, and Maric has played 8 AFL games, Griffin has played 0 AFL games and Tippett, a rookie, already has a neck injury

To me that adds up to suspect rucks for 2007.

No key position depth, well this too is a simple one to answer.
Hentschell wont play in 2007
Bassett is 30, BP
Bock is okay, CHF or CHB
Gill is a 24 yo rookie forward
McGregor is a 26 yo who can't make the team ahead of Perrie, nuff said
Perrie, at 28 with bricks for hands
Ricciuto will be your 32 yo 183cm FF or FP
Rutten is a fine FB
Sellar is a rookie forward
Stevens is a stop gap CHB
Welsh is your 28 yo, 188cm when fit, only worth a one year contract, forward

So for a game, you need 2 rucks, 3 tall forwards, 3 tall backs, as a general guide. You're already missing Hentschell, you have no key position prospects on the Rookie List. What happens if you get the usual 2 or 3 serious injuries to your taller players?

Hence to me that adds up as a lack of key position depth.

Lack of pace, well this comment hasn't only come from me, you can find many here on your own board saying the same thing, if you did a search.
Hence because of a lack of leg speed, the Crows will rely on making the ball do their running, eg ball speed. This style of game is one requiring high levels of skill, and as we all know, pressure is the biggest test for skill. As most other teams will have greater leg speed, they, if they are motivated enough, will be able to close down their Crow opponent, putting him under pressure, creating more chances for the Crow skills to diminish.

THAT is how I see the Crows will lose some games.

Fair enough Swanfan?

Hence all my reasons as to why there will be no Premiership in 2007, hence why the AFC will bottom out and no 'emergency plan' will stop it.

 

[maccas_no1]

surely, even you, appreciate that almost everyone will be looked at regardless?

my one and only comment on this debate is this:
when you start calling for delistings to make way for our young ruckman to get opportunities in future you ignore 2 basic realities:
1. we do not know how they will develop in the next 2 - 3 years. we hope, but don't know
2. I don't know - and neither do you - whether our lead ruckman in 2009 is even our list right now.

Exactly right nobody knows,well except C98 All are untried and all are unproven.

End of arguement, I think we have seen enough evidence as to why Biglands and Massie both need to be retained.

 

[Mad Dog]

Suspect rucks, well because Clarke has gone, Biglands wont play this year, and is 30 for the 2008 season, Hudson is making a return from a knee reco & he'll be 28 for the 2007 season, Meesen has played 0 AFL games, and Maric has played 8 AFL games?

hold on - just a minute ago you claimed that 8 games was far better than zero.....bye your reckoning Maric is well established......

So for a game, you need 2 rucks, 3 tall forwards, 3 tall backs, as a general guide. You're already missing Hentschell, you have no key position prospects on the Rookie List. What happens if you get the usual 2 or 3 serious injuries to your taller players?

Hence to me that adds up as a lack of key position depth.

You can make this kind of negative analysis against any list - what if ......what if.....

Lack of pace, well this comment hasn't only come from me, you can find many here on your own board saying the same thing, if you did a search.
Hence because of a lack of leg speed, the Crows will rely on making the ball do their running, eg ball speed. This style of game is one requiring high levels of skill, and as we all know, pressure is the biggest test for skill. As most other teams will have greater leg speed, they, if they are motivated enough, will be able to close down their Crow opponent, putting him under pressure, creating more chances for the Crow skills to diminish.

again - the same can be said of most sides put under pressure. Yes our pace stocks need to be built but there are a few in the ranks that will go a long way towards it

 

[Mad Dog]

Hence all my reasons as to why there will be no Premiership in 2007, hence why the AFC will bottom out and no 'emergency plan' will stop it.

you really do have a very extreme view on this....

I can't work out whether you actually believe it or if you are just baiting C98.

 

[Asgardian]

Yes, 8 games is more than 0 games, but neither tally makes for an established AFL ruckman, .................. or do you disagree?????????