Bigman’s Training Reports

[1970crow]

This is your original quote. You have since supplied a Matt Crouch quote as evidence, but Crows didn’t say anything about the club “cooking his groin”

This is another attempt from you to discredit the club, something you do at every opportunity.

Ok, I guess he was all good playing our last SANFL game and picked up the groin issue in his weeks off. Makes sense.

 

[Mutineer]

Okay. So your claim is that we have most likely ruined his groins by not resting him early towards the end of last year. It's not exactly compelling evidence but it's something.

I guess time will tell if you're right. Fingers crossed you're not.

He's absolutely spot on in Matt Crouch's case, I know for a fact they held off on surgery poking needles into him which ultimately caused him to miss a full season, finally they went the surgery route.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Maybe his own words quoted will suffice, maybe not.

View attachment 2505728

is this actually proof the we mismanaged his groins, or evidence that he a from deteriorating groin issue that would have forced him into retirement no matter what?

 

[Coopers]

is this actually proof the we mismanaged his groins, or evidence that he a from deteriorating groin issue that would have forced him into retirement no matter what?

It's absolutely evidence we mismanaged his groins, similar to how we mismanaged Murphy by not being able to provide an appropriate training technique to convert him into an A-grader.

 

[1970crow]

is this actually proof the we mismanaged his groins, or evidence that he a from deteriorating groin issue that would have forced him into retirement no matter what?

Ok, I’ll ask again, what exact form of evidence do I need to provide to satisfy you and I’ll go about acquiring it. But you’ve already stated you won’t listen anyway, just natural degeneration. Where’s your proof of that.

It’s like engaging with children. Show me the peer reviewed study on Matt Crouch’s groins.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Ok, I’ll ask again, what exact form of evidence do I need to provide to satisfy you and I’ll go about acquiring it. But you’ve already stated you won’t listen anyway, just natural degeneration. Where’s your proof of that.

It’s like engaging with children. Show me the peer reviewed study on Matt Crouch’s groins.

View attachment 2505819

sounds like you're confusing me with someone else

 

[Daniel6]

Well the club is hardly going to come out and say they caused the problem, if they did in fact cause it, cause maybe it's genetic, like my good looks

Had Darren Burgess given anyone any reason to question his knowledge or professionalism?

Because that’s where the blame is going, so no the club isn’t going to come out and admit the error, just as I don’t think it’s fair to question Darren Burgess professionalism.

 

[WeeBlake]

I wonder if this is all much less scientific, less black and white, than we might think.

If someone does their ACL, you can see it’s snapped on a scan and everyone knows it’s surgery and 9 months minimum out, usually 12.

As far as I know, osteitis pubis/“groins” might show on a scan, but because its an overuse injury it’s harder to know how bad it is and how it should be treated.

I imagine it’s a judgement call - based on expert knowledge and experience, the player’s own reporting of symptoms, scans etc etc - about the balance between rest and loading which is best.

I also wonder whether players who like to train super hard - like Draper - might find it harder to handle the adjustments needed to recover.

All this still leaves room for bad judgements which prioritise short term availability, but it makes it hard for people like us to form our own opinions.

 

[Daniel6]

Ok, I guess he was all good playing our last SANFL game and picked up the groin issue in his weeks off. Makes sense.

I’m not questioning if he does or he doesn’t, I have no idea. He’s not the first and won’t be the last to have a groin injury.

I was questioning your stance of the fact the club allegedly stuffed his groin

 

[1970crow]

Had Darren Burgess given anyone any reason to question his knowledge or professionalism?

Because that’s where the blame is going, so no the club isn’t going to come out and admit the error, just as I don’t think it’s fair to question Darren Burgess professionalism.

I don’t think it would be Burgess at all. If you’ve got sore groins you’d be consulting physios, not Burgess. He sets the program and would undoubtably design it based on where you are as an athlete, but when stuff starts going sideways, that’s when docs and physios come to the fore. That player’s limitations and recovery requirements would then be conveyed to Burgess to implement. There’s no reason to think that he would just ignore advice from the medical aspect.

But there are a few moving parts in this stuff, including the player’s feedback themselves. But we’ve got history with shredding groins, which is why I reckon it’s highly likely Sid is on the list.

Happy to be very wrong, we need speed and power in our stoppage rotation. But signs are not good.

 

[Pugsley]

Well the club is hardly going to come out and say they caused the problem, if they did in fact cause it, cause maybe it's genetic, like my good looks

That they're a problem?

 

[Cromulent]

Show me the peer reviewed study on Matt Crouch’s groins.

At least buy him a coffee first

 

[Daniel6]

I don’t think it would be Burgess at all. If you’ve got sore groins you’d be consulting physios, not Burgess. He sets the program and would undoubtably design it based on where you are as an athlete, but when stuff starts going sideways, that’s when docs and physios come to the fore. That player’s limitations and recovery requirements would then be conveyed to Burgess to implement. There’s no reason to think that he would just ignore advice from the medical aspect.

But there are a few moving parts in this stuff, including the player’s feedback themselves. But we’ve got history with shredding groins, which is why I reckon it’s highly likely Sid is on the list.

Happy to be very wrong, we need speed and power in our stoppage rotation. But signs are not good.

A physiotherapist would diagnose and rehabilitate an injury.

The fitness coach would write fitness programs for every player. He groin would be injured by the running and fitness programs.

 

[1970crow]

A physiotherapist would diagnose and rehabilitate an injury.

The fitness coach would write fitness programs for every player. He groin would be injured by the running and fitness programs.

Or playing. Once the season starts, most of the work between games is recovery, strategy and skills. The grind of preseason is replaced by the grind of 2 hours of game time each weekend.

You seem to be trying to limit this to a Burgess issue, not sure why.

 

[Daniel6]

Or playing. Once the season starts, most of the work between games is recovery, strategy and skills. The grind of preseason is replaced by the grind of 2 hours of game time each weekend.

You seem to be trying to limit this to a Burgess issue, not sure why.

No I’m not.

I’m highlighting your inability to show when or where the club stuffed his groin

 

[1970crow]

No I’m not.

I’m highlighting your inability to show when or where the club stuffed his groin

My view is late in the year and instead of concluding his season, we played him in meaningless SANFL games. The overuse has resulted in his inability to complete an actual session up to the Xmas closure. It’s pretty obvious from my posts, but your sensitivity around anything you think might be Burgo criticism would make it hard for you.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Burgess had a good record for low games lost to injury

However, how much of this record was made to look better by playing injured players. The likes of Soligo should have been rested during the year.

 

[Carmo]

I'm not saying there's no evidence we didn't mismanage Matt Crouch

5

Matt Crouch

Age

30

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.4

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

16.4

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

24.9

5star

K

9.7

4star

HB

15.1

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

2.0

4star

's body but....

I'm sure someone on here with knowledge about biomechanics (or had talked to someone with knowledge about biomechanics) mentioned one time that the way Matt Crouch

5

Matt Crouch

Age

30

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.4

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

16.4

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

24.9

5star

K

9.7

4star

HB

15.1

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

2.0

4star

runs....

that puts a heap of load on to his hips and groins and that was likely to cause him issues and even premature retirement...

Then it turns out that way. Color me not surprised. You don't even need to be a biomechanics expert, you could see the way he ran was out of the ordinary.

Its not like his brother's legs and groins were without issue either.

So for me this is the biggest non event topic discussion of all time nearly.

 

[1970crow]

I'm not saying there's no evidence we didn't mismanage Matt Crouch's body but....

I'm sure someone on here with knowledge about biomechanics (or had talked to someone with knowledge about biomechanics) mentioned one time that the way Matt Crouch runs....

that puts a heap of load on to his hips and groins and that was likely to cause him issues and even premature retirement...

Then it turns out that way. Color me not surprised. You don't even need to be a biomechanics expert, you could see the way he ran was out of the ordinary.

Its not like his brother's legs and groins were without issue either.

So for me this is the biggest non event topic discussion of all time nearly.

This is hilarious, old Carmo just manufactures biomechanics out of thin air and gets a like from one the posters demanding concrete evidence.

 

[FR0GGY]

I'm sure someone on here with knowledge about biomechanics (or had talked to someone with knowledge about biomechanics) mentioned one time that the way Matt Crouch runs....

Sideways?

 

[1970crow]

Sideways?

Google ‘Crouch’ and ‘biomechanics’ and you’ll see where carmo has gotten himself all confused.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

This is hilarious, old Carmo just manufactures biomechanics out of thin air and gets a like from one the posters demanding concrete evidence.

pretty funny that keep complaining about other posters standards for evidence, when you have a long history of ignoring very obvious data when it doesn't line up with you're pre-existing worldview

 

[skam85]

I'm not saying there's no evidence we didn't mismanage Matt Crouch's body but....

I'm sure someone on here with knowledge about biomechanics (or had talked to someone with knowledge about biomechanics) mentioned one time that the way Matt Crouch runs....

that puts a heap of load on to his hips and groins and that was likely to cause him issues and even premature retirement...

Then it turns out that way. Color me not surprised. You don't even need to be a biomechanics expert, you could see the way he ran was out of the ordinary.

Its not like his brother's legs and groins were without issue either.

So for me this is the biggest non event topic discussion of all time nearly.

this is a new level even for you

 

[Tex Danger]

Heard from someone who has spoken to crouch directly that he put it down to overtraining in preseason

Would be interested to know if that opinion of his relates to being given to e wrong program, or because he knew he was in the edge if he either pushed himself too hard in off season / with extras, or didn’t speak up when he 1st started to feel it

 

[1970crow]

Heard from someone who has spoken to crouch directly that he put it down to overtraining in preseason

Would be interested to know if that opinion of his relates to being given to e wrong program, or because he knew he was in the edge if he either pushed himself too hard in off season / with extras, or didn’t speak up when he 1st started to feel it

He missed a year prior to the issue that caused his retirement. He was very safely in the 22 at that stage.