VFL Blair

[Gone Critical]

Poppy's considerably quicker than Blair and more powerful, he is an aerial threat, he is smarter, kicks the ball better and longer.

Agree he is quicker and a better kick. Both are good overhead, Poppy a little more spectacular but that s largely irrelevent, Blair usually shades him for marks inside 50. Blair gets the ball more often than Poppy even though he has less opportunity. Both are smart players , don't see a difference there.

My main point is there is much less difference between the 2 than people believe. Much of their role centres around team acts and pressure which we outside the inner sanctum have not much awareness of. Blair especially would be much more highly rated by his teammates than the outside world because of unseen contributions. Poppy gets more like his due recognition because he is in a successful team

Out of interest were you surprised with Poppys finals stats? I was when I first looked at them. What do you make of them?

 

[The Dawes]

Agree he is quicker and a better kick. Both are good overhead, Poppy a little more spectacular but that s largely irrelevent, Blair usually shades him for marks inside 50. Blair gets the ball more often than Poppy even though he has less opportunity. Both are smart players , don't see a difference there.

My main point is there is much less difference between the 2 than people believe. Much of their role centres around team acts and pressure which we outside the inner sanctum have not much awareness of. Blair especially would be much more highly rated by his teammates than the outside world because of unseen contributions. Poppy gets more like his due recognition because he is in a successful team

Out of interest were you surprised with Poppys finals stats? I was when I first looked at them. What do you make of them?

I must admit to being surprised by Puopolo's stats in finals - also did an overall comparison between him and Blair and it's remarkable how similar their careers have been, but if you were to ask most footy followers I would bet the perception is that Puopolo is far superior, but the stats (which are not the be all & end all) don't bear that out.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...d2=5&type=A&pid1=3508&pid2=3205&fid1=C&fid2=C

 

[Gone Critical]

I must admit to being surprised by Puopolo's stats in finals - also did an overall comparison between him and Blair and it's remarkable how similar their careers have been, but if you were to ask most footy followers I would bet the perception is that Puopolo is far superior, but the stats (which are not the be all & end all) don't bear that out.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...d2=5&type=A&pid1=3508&pid2=3205&fid1=C&fid2=C

Always agree stats are only part of the picture. Still teams played in and success colours perception also. Blairy was a bit of a darling of supporters back in 2010-12 when we were top 4. People say he hasn't grown which is untrue. He is a more rounded and important member of the team. A younger Blair couldn't play the same role he plays now. He can improve for sure and isn't a guaranteed best 22 going forward but he has earned the games he has got to date by making a good contribution.

 

[Good_Old]

I must admit to being surprised by Puopolo's stats in finals - also did an overall comparison between him and Blair and it's remarkable how similar their careers have been, but if you were to ask most footy followers I would bet the perception is that Puopolo is far superior, but the stats (which are not the be all & end all) don't bear that out.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...d2=5&type=A&pid1=3508&pid2=3205&fid1=C&fid2=C

One of them plays in a good team and has an older gentleman soiling his pants everytime he goes near the ball. I reckon that would influence perception somewhat.

 

[DWil6]

Plops has one of the best returns on a goal-per-arm-raise-high-tackle-free of any modern player. Outside of that he's very ordinary.

 

[The Dawes]

One of them plays in a good team and has an older gentleman soiling his pants everytime he goes near the ball. I reckon that would influence perception somewhat.

Cyril goal from Poppy assist = pay day for Bruce's dry cleaners.

 

[left at home]

Yep Poppy is great to watch , a little terrier. Bit like our Blair really.

He has stepped up his goalkicking in 2016 but still his career goals per game is 1.0 compared to Blairs 0.8. Think it should be a bit better considering he has only ever played in a top 4 team where the ball spends a lot of time up forward and delivery from the mids is best ever. Still like Blair his job isnt really to kick lots of goals its just when you do that role in a successful team you get less criticised by fans.

Poppy also struggles a lot when it comes to finals footy if you just go on stats. He has kicked one goal in a Grand Final but thats not really a big deal seeing he has played in the last 4 and 3 of them on the winning team. Be part of a winning team if you want to avoid criticism. Year he got a goal was 2014 when the Hawks kicked 21.

In the last 3 successful Hawthorn finals series where Poppy has played 10 games he has managed 3 goals. A neat stat when you consider 1 goal in three successful GFs and 1 goal in each of 3 successful finals series.

Give Blairy those sort of figures when we are doing badly, or Milne or Ballantyne when they struggled in GFs, and they will be massively criticised

I am not knocking Poppy I like him, like I like Blair. His biggest asset as a footballer though has been right place right time. He is no better than Blairy just plays the same role in a better team.

my answer was not comparing blair and poppy. l like both, and always have.
your right if we had won as many grand finals as the hawks blair would be considered in far better light than he is.
to many times when our forward line has struggled the wee man gets the blame and others get of scott free
he does his job better than most

 

[nahnah]

Am I missing something, Blair has kicked 9 goals in 14 games.. Poppy has kicked 25 in 14

 

[Good_Old]

Am I missing something, Blair has kicked 9 goals in 14 games.. Poppy has kicked 25 in 14

That's not entirely an accurate way of looking at it. Forward 50 entries or even team offensive ratings would paint a better picture. He can't really be blamed if the ball is always up the other end of the ground.

 

[Gone Critical]

Am I missing something, Blair has kicked 9 goals in 14 games.. Poppy has kicked 25 in 14

I think its fair to say Poppy in 2016 has taken his goalkicking to a new level. Still that's pretty new and over the journey he and Blair kick goals at a pretty similar rate.

 

[nahnah]

I think its fair to say Poppy in 2016 has taken his goalkicking to a new level. Still that's pretty new and over the journey he and Blair kick goals at a pretty similar rate.

Poppy did enter the afl as a back pocket

 

[bucksisbest]

Agree he is quicker and a better kick. Both are good overhead, Poppy a little more spectacular but that s largely irrelevent, Blair usually shades him for marks inside 50. Blair gets the ball more often than Poppy even though he has less opportunity. Both are smart players , don't see a difference there.

My main point is there is much less difference between the 2 than people believe. Much of their role centres around team acts and pressure which we outside the inner sanctum have not much awareness of. Blair especially would be much more highly rated by his teammates than the outside world because of unseen contributions. Poppy gets more like his due recognition because he is in a successful team

Out of interest were you surprised with Poppys finals stats? I was when I first looked at them. What do you make of them?

I see Blair play every week and see Hawks play regularly I don't care about the stat similarities, watching in game the differences are stark, including Puoplolo bobbing up when important and conjuring things. Rioli's a low possession player, there will be guys who look similar to him on the stats sheet too.

Most people's stats go down in finals due to the nature of it, he might get found out more there. He's not faultless, I just think Blair is the C grade version of him.

 

[Gone Critical]

Poppy did enter the afl as a back pocket

OK leave out his 1st season and take 2012-2015. All seasons Hawks have played off in GFs and won 3 flags. Poppy played exclusively as a small forward in those years. 91 games and 90 goals. Just under a goal a game. Blairs career rate is 0.8 goals per game. Through that time the Hawks have outscored the Pies by about 20%. Poppys career average is about 20% better than Blairs goals per game. Over the journey they aint that different.

 

[Gone Critical]

I see Blair play every week and see Hawks play regularly I don't care about the stat similarities, watching in game the differences are stark, including Puoplolo bobbing up when important and conjuring things. Rioli's a low possession player, there will be guys who look similar to him on the stats sheet too.

Most people's stats go down in finals due to the nature of it, he might get found out more there. He's not faultless, I just think Blair is the C grade version of him.

Lets not pretend Poppy and Rioli are comparable. Rioli is a star, steps up in finals, does the impossible. I like Poppy but he is flattered career wise by playing in a great team. Blair would do a similar job in a Hawks team. They are both journeyman footballers. Poppy just has an easier gig.

Rioli is a completely different story.

 

[bucksisbest]

Lets not pretend Poppy and Rioli are comparable. Rioli is a star, steps up in finals, does the impossible. I like Poppy but he is flattered career wise by playing in a great team. Blair would do a similar job in a Hawks team. They are both journeyman footballers. Poppy just has an easier gig.

Rioli is a completely different story.

I didn't say they were, I used Rioli as another example of a player who may have similar stats to perceived lesser players, but that would not be taking things like x-factor, physical, special abilities, conjuring plays and bobbing up in key moments.

Rioli is a higher class example, but it still correlates with my point that Blair is not in Puoplolo's class despite similar career stats.

 

[nahnah]

OK leave out his 1st season and take 2012-2015. All seasons Hawks have played off in GFs and won 3 flags. Poppy played exclusively as a small forward in those years. 91 games and 90 goals. Just under a goal a game. Blairs career rate is 0.8 goals per game. Through that time the Hawks have outscored the Pies by about 20%. Poppys career average is about 20% better than Blairs goals per game. Over the journey they aint that different.

That doesn't translate, that's using an irrelevant stat to try to rebut a proper stat (it's late and I can't think of a way to word this properly) If Collingwood had Roughead, Gunston, Bruest and Rioli in their forward line they would probably score 10-20% more, I seriously doubt Blairs output would also increase by 10-20% more.

Also why leave out this year though, I don't get it. I don't see myself as a Blair hater, I think he deserves his spot each week but I can admit Poppy is the superior player and would trade Blair to get poppy without a second thought.

 

[Gone Critical]

That doesn't translate, that's using an irrelevant stat to try to rebut a proper stat (it's late and I can't think of a way to word this properly) If Collingwood had Roughead, Gunston, Bruest and Rioli in their forward line they would probably score 10-20% more, I seriously doubt Blairs output would also increase by 10-20% more.

Also why leave out this year though, I don't get it. I don't see myself as a Blair hater, I think he deserves his spot each week but I can admit Poppy is the superior player and would trade Blair to get poppy without a second thought.

I left out this year because I acknowledged to you above that in 2016 Poppy has gone to a new level. If we take 2016 alone I think the argument is different. Prior to that their careers are so similar it's remarkable.

As to increased output in a more dominant forward line it doesn't make any sense to me to believe Blairs output wouldn't increase. The ball would be round him more often, the quality of delivery would improve, he would get more opportunities.

The stats support that also. The only season Blair played a full season in a team with a dominance and scoring rate similar to what Poppy has had throughout his career, 2011, Blairs goals total and per match were clearly superior to the rest of his career and at least equal of the rates Poppy has achieved while playing in a dominant forward line. That also occurred when he was also a younger, less mature and rounded player.

The fact that Blairs figures were significantly higher in his only year in a dominant high scoring forwardline suggests they would go up again if he were placed again in such a position.

 

[Gone Critical]

I didn't say they were, I used Rioli as another example of a player who may have similar stats to perceived lesser players, but that would not be taking things like x-factor, physical, special abilities, conjuring plays and bobbing up in key moments.

Rioli is a higher class example, but it still correlates with my point that Blair is not in Puoplolo's class despite similar career stats.

Difference of opinion I guess. I am happy for you to rate Poppy superior to Blair I just can't see very much difference between them. Playing in a dominant team surrounded by champions will always enhance the perception of the journeyman players like Puopolo. It enhances your good moments and glosses over your deficiencies when you are always winning and the stars around you are creating such a positive environment.

Put Poppy in the current Collingwood forwardline and he would be a different player. It would be a much more grinding job with less opportunities for the cameos he enjoys and he would need to take on a more defensive attitude. Little opportunity to chance his arm like he has currently.

 

[Good_Old]

That's not entirely an accurate way of looking at it. Forward 50 entries or even team offensive ratings would paint a better picture. He can't really be blamed if the ball is always up the other end of the ground.

I totally agree.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Blair plays almost all of his good games against weaker opposition. I reckon you could count on your hand the amount of times he has performed against quality opposition. He's a mere role player, with no scope for improvement and who is a liability when tested. I don't see the point of persisting with him when he offers us nothing in the long term (and highly debatable whether he offers anything in the immediate).

 

[NT.Thunder]

Even the Chilcot report has nothing good to say about Blair

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Lol So your argument is that despite the fact Blair won the contest he is useless. Says more about your extreme bias than Blair's abilities.

I have nothing but admiration for Blair and the way he goes about his footy. He hadnt been replaced cause nobody has pushed him out through PERFORMANCE. I would like Broomy, Aish and others to go past him. But they haven't done enough. Dont blame Blair for the inadequacies of others.

I think there is a very, very strong dose of sarcasm in that post.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Difference of opinion I guess. I am happy for you to rate Poppy superior to Blair I just can't see very much difference between them. Playing in a dominant team surrounded by champions will always enhance the perception of the journeyman players like Puopolo. It enhances your good moments and glosses over your deficiencies when you are always winning and the stars around you are creating such a positive environment.

Put Poppy in the current Collingwood forwardline and he would be a different player. It would be a much more grinding job with less opportunities for the cameos he enjoys and he would need to take on a more defensive attitude. Little opportunity to chance his arm like he has currently.

I agree with you that they are similar players, who play a similar role.

I will say that currently I rate Poppy higher - but a big part of that is because of how successful the team he is in is performing. When your team is winning, every player looks better - and deserves to be rated higher. It applies to our 2010-12 years as well. Look at Freo's players now compared to a year ago - they didn't all suddenly become shit players. It's what winning and losing does.

They only way you could definitely know is if you swapped their teams and situations - which you can't do. I would probably still say Puopolo is better, but not by the kind of margin that a lot of people here say. Chuck Blair into that Hawthorn lineup and he would do a very similar job I reckon.

 

[nahnah]

I left out this year because I acknowledged to you above that in 2016 Poppy has gone to a new level. If we take 2016 alone I think the argument is different. Prior to that their careers are so similar it's remarkable.

As to increased output in a more dominant forward line it doesn't make any sense to me to believe Blairs output wouldn't increase. The ball would be round him more often, the quality of delivery would improve, he would get more opportunities.

The stats support that also. The only season Blair played a full season in a team with a dominance and scoring rate similar to what Poppy has had throughout his career, 2011, Blairs goals total and per match were clearly superior to the rest of his career and at least equal of the rates Poppy has achieved while playing in a dominant forward line. That also occurred when he was also a younger, less mature and rounded player.

The fact that Blairs figures were significantly higher in his only year in a dominant high scoring forwardline suggests they would go up again if he were placed again in such a position.

So we are essentially debating the same thing, Poppy is the better player right now. The only thing that seems to be off is you think i'm arguing Blair has always been worse which is not true. I would have taken Blair over poppy in 2011 for sure and probably 2012 too, but Poppy has passed him.
It's very hard for me to believe that if you put poppy in the collingwood side of today he would only have 9 goals to this point of the season.

 

[1892]

Have been wondering how Jack Blair is going with his leg injury. With the VFL tag on this thread surely that's who it's about. Couldn't possibly be about Jarryd Blair especially after todays performance. Stringing some good games and goals together.