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Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread

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Dramoth said:
It would be interesting to do a social media poll of Carlton members to see how many would not be renewing their membership if the club lets Kreuzer walk... and then send the results to the club.
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Define 'let'?

As in decide not to match offers of $800k plus?
 

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Omega Blue said:
Fev was a mad saints supporter then came to the blues and remained a massive Saints supporter
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Walls came to Carlton as a mad Melbourne... and now you can't get him out of Princes Park :D
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
Define 'let'?

As in decide not to match offers of $800k plus?
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No... Kreuzer is not about the money... if he was, he would have taken the GWS offer back in 2011 and ran to the hills.

Kreuzer wants to secure his playing future long term and wants to see out his career in Navy Blue... his words. The club is bimbling about only offering him a standard 2 year contract. Other clubs are coming in and offering 4-6 years.

He pretty much knows that he owes the club for sticking with him over the last 2 years.

He seems to me to be very much old school in wanting to remain with the club that recruited him.
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
Kreuzer wanted Carlton, Carlton wanted Kreuzer ... Carlton were not stalling to railroad the big guy for compo. The deal was getting done.

However we all know about rumours of massive offers coming in for him. The last couple of days may have been a game changer and now Kreuzer's future is very much up to him.

I wouldn't be ragging on the club over this and threatening memberships and so forth. Matty has the control here. He has limited time left in the game and has to weigh up what is best for him.
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In July he did an interview with the HUN. In that interview he stated that he would not talk to other clubs or screw Carlton over and hold them to ransom.
What has changed?
 
Keyza said:
In July he did an interview with the HUN. In that interview he stated that he would not talk to other clubs or screw Carlton over and hold them to ransom.
What has changed?
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The club bimbling over the length of time he wants for his contract.
 
We've all seen how Good MK has been the last few weeks. Pick 3 is still and unknown and could easily turn out to be a Russel, Yarran or Lucas. Our drafting has been out and out horrible!
 

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Broadside said:
you don't think giving Kreuzer a 4 year contract - given his injury history - is a huge risk? I think it would be nuts. How many games has he missed the past 4 years?
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I think giving a 4 year contract to any player is a risk. Who is say that a player who has never had any injuries suddenly does a knee in the first year of a new contract. It is a risk either way. We gave Thomas a 4 year deal on really good money even though he had injury concerns. Maybe the club has decided it will not do such a thing again and has learnt from its mistake. What message does that send to Matty? He has been loyal to Carlton and deserves to be treated with respect. Maybe a compromise of 3 years with an option of a 4th is possibility.
I am just sick of losing good players.
 
Dramoth said:
No... Kreuzer is not about the money... if he was, he would have taken the GWS offer back in 2011 and ran to the hills.

Kreuzer wants to secure his playing future long term and wants to see out his career in Navy Blue... his words. The club is bimbling about only offering him a standard 2 year contract. Other clubs are coming in and offering 4-6 years.

He pretty much knows that he owes the club for sticking with him over the last 2 years.

He seems to me to be very much old school in wanting to remain with the club that recruited him.
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Again, things change. The ball is in his court now. He is not getting railroaded out of the club for compo and that's what is important here.

However to follow your line of logic, do you think a 4-6 year contract would be responsible for our club at this time?

I believe it is a large offer that has thrown the cat amongst the pigeons, it may be large in salary and in contract length but large nonetheless.
 
Keyza said:
I think giving a 4 year contract to any player is a risk. Who is say that a player who has never had any injuries suddenly does a knee in the first year of a new contract. It is a risk either way. We gave Thomas a 4 year deal on really good money even though he had injury concerns. Maybe the club has decided it will not do such a thing again and has learnt from its mistake. What message does that send to Matty? He has been loyal to Carlton and deserves to be treated with respect. Maybe a compromise of 3 years with an option of a 4th is possibility.
I am just sick of losing good players.
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Possibly a compromise of 3 years could be reached, however we can't use the Thomas mistake as a basis for all of our future contracts until Thomas has gone.

The only players we should be considering lengthy contracts for now are elite young guys like Cripps.

I love Matty, hell I have organised his sponsorship since he got to the club. However, he is entitled to look at what he can get out of the game in his remaining years. He stuck with us when he wasn't injured and got a big offer. We stuck with him when he was injured.

Carlton are in a very difficult spot at the moment and I hate the fact that when in doubt, many of our supporters tend to demonise the club. We need uncompromising players and supporters. We don't know the full story so at least should be open minded about it.

I believe it is Matty considering a new and compelling offer, not Carlton holding out to give him the most miserly deal possible.
 
Broadside said:
you don't think giving Kreuzer a 4 year contract - given his injury history - is a huge risk? I think it would be nuts. How many games has he missed the past 4 years?
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It's a bit of a risk... but so is picking up someone anywhere in the draft. We could let Kreuzer leave on a FA deal, get a band 1 compo pick, draft Francis or Collins or Parish and a week after the draft he could be involved in a massive accident at pre-season training and gets a career ending injury... before he has even played a game for us.

Carlton at the end of the 2008 season signed Robbie Warnock to come in and be our #1 ruckman so we didnt have to depend too heavily on Kreuzer. And what happened in 2009? He suffered stress fractures of his foot and didnt play a game for us. He played 12 games in 2010 battling with Jacobs for the #1 ruck spot... especially after Kreuzer did his knee. So in 2 years at the club, Warnock had played a grand total of 12 games? in 2011, he played 20... the most that he has ever played for us in a single season of football... and just under 1/3 of his total games played. But everyone has been happy to throw contracts at him because he is one of the best tap ruckmen in the league? Kreuzer, in 1 year less in the AFL system, has played 30 more games than Warnock, and Kreuzer has spent 2 years total out with injury.

We don't get a do-over of the draft for it. We don't suddenly get to pick another player because we lose someone to injury.

It would be the same for another club if they signed Kreuzer on a long term contract as a free agent, and in their very first game next year, he suffers a massive injury... they won't receive compensation for it. And I am willing to bet that a lot of people on here will be quietly chortling in their tea about it and thanking whatever god they believe in that he is no longer a Carlton player.

We would be happy to see him go to another club for a long term contract (with some of us secretly hoping that he breaks down again), but we aren't willing to see him remain a blue on a long term contract?


PS: Over the last 2 years, Warnock has only played 5 more games than Kreuzer has...
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
Possibly a compromise of 3 years could be reached, however we can't use the Thomas mistake as a basis for all of our future contracts until Thomas has gone.

The only players we should be considering lengthy contracts for now are elite young guys like Cripps.

I love Matty, hell I have organised his sponsorship since he got to the club. However, he is entitled to look at what he can get out of the game in his remaining years. He stuck with us when he wasn't injured and got a big offer. We stuck with him when he was injured.

Carlton are in a very difficult spot at the moment and I hate the fact that when in doubt, many of our supporters tend to demonise the club. We need uncompromising players and supporters. We don't know the full story so at least should be open minded about it.

I believe it is Matty considering a new and compelling offer, not Carlton holding out to give him the most miserly deal possible.
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Cheers, It is good to hear that the club is not trying to screw Matty over and push him out the door as many have suggested.
Free agency was the worst thing that the AFL has introduced, it will only widen the gap between the top and bottom clubs. I dont understand how they thought it would be a good idea.
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
Possibly a compromise of 3 years could be reached, however we can't use the Thomas mistake as a basis for all of our future contracts until Thomas has gone.

The only players we should be considering lengthy contracts for now are elite young guys like Cripps.

I love Matty, hell I have organised his sponsorship since he got to the club. However, he is entitled to look at what he can get out of the game in his remaining years. He stuck with us when he wasn't injured and got a big offer. We stuck with him when he was injured.

Carlton are in a very difficult spot at the moment and I hate the fact that when in doubt, many of our supporters tend to demonise the club. We need uncompromising players and supporters. We don't know the full story so at least should be open minded about it.

I believe it is Matty considering a new and compelling offer, not Carlton holding out to give him the most miserly deal possible.
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No... we should be using the Warnock mistake as our benchmark when trading for players. At least Daisy played pretty much all of last year before he dislocated his shoulder this year. Warnock was supposed to be the next Sandilands... and spent his entire first season with us out injured.
 

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Can understand moving MK on for a pick point of view... but what irks me in the name of an exhaustive rebuild where even the attitudes of the players (hendo, yarran) come into question, someone like MK could move on while gibbs can coast along on our list for the rest of his career - quite possibly in a way that is infectious amongst the playing group like we think MK's enthusiasm is.
 
Keyza said:
Free agency was the worst thing that the AFL has introduced, it will only widen the gap between the top and bottom clubs. I dont understand how they thought it would be a good idea.
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I agree with that and removing compo will only widen the gap further.

Makes it so much easier for a player to leave a bottom club to get that success he always wanted. The talk about pulling it back to 6 years is a joke. Spend 4 years developing a player into being a regular best 22 and 2 years later he can leave for nothing to a seagulling contender.

They had to try it and see I suppose but the AFL weren't happy with the Franklin move and over compensated Melbourne for the Frawley move because it is starting to embarrass them.

They had a version of this back in the 70s with the 10 year rule where North stripped away 3 stars from other clubs and eventually won their first flag because of it.
 
I'd trade Gibbs into next year's stronger draft. Hope he has a good year next year. Would be a great get for a club around the top 4.

I think SOS will do this.

Re Kreuzer I understand that any draftee pick 3 may get a serious injury but the fact is, some players are injury prone and have chronic problems. Kreuzer unfortunately is one of them. 4 years is a huge risk as against a top 3 talent with 8 years youth on their side.
 
dumb said:
Can understand moving MK on for a pick point of view... but what irks me in the name of an exhaustive rebuild where even the attitudes of the players (hendo, yarran) come into question, someone like MK could move on while gibbs can coast along on our list for the rest of his career - quite possibly in a way that is infectious amongst the playing group like we think MK's enthusiasm is.
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Gibbs got his new contract on the back of a better attitude and B&F form last year. May not have got it this year so is fortunate. Now we just have to hope that whatever was affecting him this year is gone under Bolton and this new uncompromising attitude we appear to have.
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
I agree with that and removing compo will only widen the gap further.

Makes it so much easier for a player to leave a bottom club to get that success he always wanted. The talk about pulling it back to 6 years is a joke. Spend 4 years developing a player into being a regular best 22 and 2 years later he can leave for nothing to a seagulling contender.

They had to try it and see I suppose but the AFL weren't happy with the Franklin move and over compensated Melbourne for the Frawley move because it is starting to embarrass them.

They had a version of this back in the 70s with the 10 year rule where North stripped away 3 stars from other clubs and eventually won their first flag because of it.
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The 10 year rule was scrapped pretty quickly wasnt it?
 
Fascinating to see how Carlton intends go about its business looking forward. I guess many of us are looking backwards at some atrocious deals done in the past and making these a benchmark for deals going forward- I can understand how much angst that the Thomas deal brought to the Club...

I personally wonder how many Carlton players have been negatively impacted by big money paid to imported player s who deliver very little.

I guess the Club has to draw a line in the sand and say THIS is how we go forward. I hope Matty isn't the first real loss supporters have to cop - as par of the multi-year fix ahead.
 
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