Board decisions

[nurries]

Jeez I'd love to know what went down behind closed doors at Freo during that fateful trade period when Bell said that after doing our due dilligence on Hogan, we were no longer interested. Just like the game of footy ON the field, your first thought is often the right one. The first thought to step away from the Hogan trade has proven to be correct one, but Freo being Freo, we managed to **** it up badly.

I still cry every time i see Ben King going for a mark

 

[Outshined]

Clearly a fair few high profile mistakes have been made these last few years. My hope is that we still have enough quality on the list/in the coaches box to overcome the failures in trading/administration. Injuries are another matter, since the much needed changes to the S&C department haven't seemed to change much on that front.

Jury is still out though given we're only 1 round in to Longmuir's second full season. If we're firmly entrenched in the bottom 6 by round 12 with a dismal scoring record we're going to be in "failed rebuild" territory. Don't think that means the coach should go, especially since the former had 2016-2019, but any half-decent organisation would be slashing and burning its list management team.

Anyway, can only hope we're in a healthier position come June.

Edit* not even touching the stuff about the women's team. That's a bad enough take for it to be well recognized by everyone else here.

 

[Wigarus]

That’s all good but the women’s team / injuries take is stupid

Brisbane have less coin than us, a women’s team and haven’t had an injury in 5 years


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Once again for the people that are hard of comprehension - I did not say that the women's team is the cause of our injuries. Obviously that is a ridiculous statement to make.



WE KNOW that more money usually translates to more success otherwise why would caps exist?

WE KNOW that not all clubs have spent money on a women's team.

Nobody has pointed out a way that the women's team could help us win a flag, so I don't see the controversy.



OBVIOUSLY THIS IS NOT THE SOLE REASON FOR OUR LACK OF ON FIELD SUCCESS


I believe it is part of an overall pattern that shows that our club has multiple goals all around the periphery of winning a flag and that winning a flag in and of itself is not the clubs highest priority. Luckily for me other posters in this thread have highlighted other areas as well.

 

[Wigarus]

But they can't because they can't reach finals. Meanwhile our team can because they will reach finals, and a large part of that is being the first to have a team. Getting access to the better players. Having longer to establish a brand...

If we were second to get a team I guarantee the roles would be reversed - just like they were in the mens.

I'd say if Freo was established before WC then there is a huge chance we'd have tasted more success in AFL than them by this point in time. First to market is a massive advantage. Like enormous! If you think a few $s now isn't offset by that then I'm not sure you understand how investment works.

I'll admit I'm totally ignorant of the women's game. I don't watch it or read about it because I am not interested in it.

If you ask me whether women should be allowed to play football I say absolutely, what has it got to do with me?

If you ask me whether my club should pay for women to play football while other clubs don't, then I say no, the competition is unfair enough as it is, why handicap ourselves further (EVEN IF IT SEEMS AN INSIGNIFICANT AMOUNT)?

We seem to have a fundamental disagreement here in that you think this club should exist to provide opportunities to the women's game, whereas I think our only priority should be a flag. I feel like if the AFL wants a women's competition they should fund it in whole or make it equal across the clubs.

Also just for the record in reference to your comment regarding my lack of investment understanding, an investment is only considered a success if it delivers a return. For you to say that its an investment means you acknowledge that this is a choice our club made. Maybe to you, winning an AFLW flag would offset the fact we haven't won an AFL one and maybe to you that's a good return on investment but it won't change anything for me.

 

[Wigarus]

Does the woman’s team really only cost us 150k? That’s basically nothing

According to the Melbourne annual report for 2018, their AFLW team cost $450k in player payments, and $401k in program costs, and they spent $192k on the winter VFLW competition. They received $886k in AFLW revenue, including AFL funding covering most player payments, with the remaining income being AFLW-specific sponsorship and membership.

From the article in the OP.

The AFL covers some of the cost and sponsorship covers some and the Dees had a 157k shortfall for that year. Same as other football dept spending it's very rarely made public.

 

[Monument Hills]

Not sure why the women are the problem. They have made it enjoyable to watch purple jumpers running around the field again. They are coached well, have almost no injured players, can kick a winning score, and only started losing games after the men came back and started jinxxing them with their Benny Hill sh5tfulness tripping over themselves to get injured, kicking out on the full, missing from dead in front, adding weeks and months when just sitting in rehab. You can really get around ballsy stars like Roxy and 'Gemma the Destroyer' and 'Turbo'. Meanwhile the men have 'oh sh5t, i tripped over myself and destroyed my body again Lobb', 'I can't kick 30m to goal Cerra', 'OOF is my every possession............(take your pick)', 'I prefer to be paid to sit in rehab Pearce' and 'stay an Acre away from me'. Maybe they should just give the extra money to the women. They seem to be able to make the most of their $$s. Happy to have the women's membership but the men aren't getting a cent while this sh5tstain continues regardless of how Bell presents it.

 

[Purple Kermit]

A truly bizarre take, well done!

To add to some of the faults in it raised by others: why did Richmond win the flag last year if they were spending money on their AFLW team? The problems Freo have aren’t something that can be solved by an extra $150,000.

Having a successful AFLW team will hopefully help build a winning, modern culture at the club that contributes to it winning its first flag. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive, and having an AFLW team certainly doesn’t detract from the goal of winning a flag! (See, again, Richmond!).

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

Sees thread title, expects feedback on on how Snuffaluphagus needs more purple in his signature and Tonga Bob needs better gifs in his posts.

Loads banzhammer. Reads thread.

Oh, OK, that board, their decisions, not this board.
Holsters banzhammer. Carry on.


.

 

[showemhowtorock]

Honestly, how dare you criticise the club on this when you admit you haven't even bothered to give the girls a chance. The girls have given us triple what the boys have to be proud of in recent years, and i am so ****ing proud of the investment this club has made into our AFLW side. Those girls work so ****ing hard it's not funny, and they bleed purple, they deserve to be there so much and they don't deserve some middle aged dude who has never given them a shot opening up a discussion saying that it should never have happened.

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

Honestly, how dare you criticise the club on this when you admit you haven't even bothered to give the girls a chance. The girls have given us triple what the boys have to be proud of in recent years, and i am so ******* proud of the investment this club has made into our AFLW side. Those girls work so ******* hard it's not funny, and they bleed purple, they deserve to be there so much and they don't deserve some middle aged dude who has never given them a shot opening up a discussion saying that it should never have happened.

Well put.
Said just what I have spent the last hour trying to put into words, but with more eloquence and passion.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Once again for the people that are hard of comprehension - I did not say that the women's team is the cause of our injuries. Obviously that is a ridiculous statement to make.



WE KNOW that more money usually translates to more success otherwise why would caps exist?

WE KNOW that not all clubs have spent money on a women's team.

Nobody has pointed out a way that the women's team could help us win a flag, so I don't see the controversy.



OBVIOUSLY THIS IS NOT THE SOLE REASON FOR OUR LACK OF ON FIELD SUCCESS


I believe it is part of an overall pattern that shows that our club has multiple goals all around the periphery of winning a flag and that winning a flag in and of itself is not the clubs highest priority. Luckily for me other posters in this thread have highlighted other areas as well.

Why are you so against winning an AFLW flag? You talk about premierships as if there is only one type.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

According to the Melbourne annual report for 2018, their AFLW team cost $450k in player payments, and $401k in program costs, and they spent $192k on the winter VFLW competition. They received $886k in AFLW revenue, including AFL funding covering most player payments, with the remaining income being AFLW-specific sponsorship and membership.

From the article in the OP.

The AFL covers some of the cost and sponsorship covers some and the Dees had a 157k shortfall for that year. Same as other football dept spending it's very rarely made public.

We dont have a a womens state league team, so I'm guessing that means we dont have a similar 192k spend on state league footy that Richmond have.

If that holds true, and the rest of our AFLW expenses & revenues are in line with Richmond, then we might actually return a small surplus out of our AFLW program.

 

[Dockeroo]

The problem is the injury issue!! It’s just never ending. There’s literally a stronger side on the treatment table now than on the actual park, or not far off it. After just round 1. How on earth are we meant to compete in an equalised competition with a third of the list constantly unavailable?! It’s not possible! Six or seven ****ing calf injuries so far this season.
Talk of failed rebuilds is silly. If all the talent we have drafted was available and the performances were still poor, then yes - that would be a conversation worth having.
But what’s the point in doing another rebuild only to have a third of them still sitting on the treatment table?
I know the club sacked Weber. I know it’s early days for the new S&C guy. Some have this theory that injuries will be even more prevalent this year due to the S&C change. That might be fine if we were coming off a low base of injuries last year. But has that happened previously at other AFL clubs after an S&C change?
At the end of the day I don’t know what the solution is. But if we have an AFL list of 43/44 adult men footballers and are selection from 29 or 30 fit players each week, well it doesnt matter how many more years the rebuild goes on or how many more high draft picks we get or trade in or whatever. We won’t be threatening the business end.

 

[go_the_dockers]

The single focus should be to win the Premiership ? !! Good god man, thats genius. Email the club and get that idea into their heads.. NOW !!

The club makes short term decisions which hurt us long term.

Some of this is due to board pressure to make finals instead of rebuilding properly.

 

[Nodgey]

I think Wigarus made/makes some good points re the board. But doubling down on the AFLW side (which i disagree with him on) was a mistake IMHO.

Our board is appointed by the WAFC yeah? The same WAFC that appoints the Eagles board? Or have I got that wrong? My view is that we have no chance of improving our board performance if we have no chance ourselves of appointing its members. Correct me if I’m wrong please.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

The club makes short term decisions which hurt us long term.

Some of this is due to board pressure to make finals instead of rebuilding properly.

Short term decisions have come about _because_ of the rebuild not in spite of it. The decision that has undoubtedly hurt us more than any other was to undertake this bloody rebuild in the first place.

 

[wayToGo_]

Wigarus is just one voice amongst a myriad of others that have a polar opposite pov on AFLW. Encouragingly, ignorant criticisms of women's footy are becoming more uncommon all the time. Glad at how many of us called him out for it and hopefully it makes him reflect that perhaps he might have this all backwards? We live in hope

Back on the topic of the Board. I don't think they should be immune from criticism but I know a few of them and some of the characterisations of them on here don't correlate with my experiences. I think they are damned if they do and damned if they don't a fair bit. Whilst performance on-field remains sub par they are in a lose-lose situation no matter what they do. The Board has taken decisive action in recent years imo - arguably not all good. But if they had just sat on their hands we'd still be whinging plenty.

Prioritising women's football with an eye on the future was an excellent decision imo. Moving to Cockburn wasn't ideal (from a location perspective) but what would we be saying if the club was still currently crowded in at Fremantle Oval? They made the tough call to get our team access to world class facilities knowing members would be annoyed at no longer being based in Freo. There was no option available to satisfy everyone.

They turfed the CEO, the Head Coach, and overhauled a bunch of other departments in recent years because they knew it was in the club's best interests long term. And they took a big hit financially in the process. I think it is fair to say we are still dealing with some of the fallout of all that. Obviously paying out Ross is a good example. Similarly we are experiencing some settling in issues (eg S&C).

I look at the club now compared to where it was a decade ago and I think it is largely improved as an entity overall. But whilst it remains starved of premiership success a large proportion of the AFL community will equate that to mean very little. It's the part of wig's post I agree with. Winning a premiership has to be the focus all other decisions are made around. I think where we've got into trouble in the past is jumping on bandaids. And conversely when we've committed to the end outcome (like drafting an elite young midfield) we're looking pretty good.

We'll quickly forget all the shit past decisions if one or both of our teams gets to hold up a big cup at the end of a season. Until that happens though...

 

[basashi]

Whether or not we individually like or dislike the guy... it is interesting that the club has had three eras:

1) poor decision making
2) Steve Harris as chairman
3) (see 1)

 

[theGav56]

A massive issue undealt with by the board/club is the impact media has. It is insidious and damaging, and while I understand the sentiment that winning is likely to change that, it is a shallow solution. Regularly we have seen media go after players, coaches, management and the club itself.

 

[GoFreo4eva]

Yeah, well that's where we disagree. I don't think it matters how long you've been around for without success. If the Eagles women win a flag this year they will have more fans than we do.

Well, that is not going to happen and if you followed the AFLW you'd know that. Do I sense some confirmation bias??

 

[freo1997]

We probably should of tanked in 2017/2018 and completely bottom out. (Not win 8 games) and finish around 14th to 13th in those seasons.

I only remember a few of us on here (myself NOT included) who were thinking short term pain for long term gain. Most posters wanted as many wins possible circa 17/18...which at the time i thought was the right direction. It probably wasnt in hindsight..

 

[Wigarus]

Well, that is not going to happen and if you followed the AFLW you'd know that. Do I sense some confirmation bias??

Is there an emoji for an exhausted sigh? I was speaking in general terms (which is apparently not acceptable anymore), I don't think that length of time in the competition (FOR ANY TEAM IN ANY CODE IN ANY SPORT) will get you more fans than winning a championship/ flag / premiership will.

I don't watch AFLW, I'm not interested. Just because I'm not interested doesn't mean I hate it. My goodness, People are allowed to be interested in some things and not others. I would be making the same criticism about a team golf day if we knew it cost 150k a year that 10 other clubs weren't spending. I have nothing against it apart from how it's funded but hey, everyone else here wayToGo_ jumps to conclusions and makes their own assumptions so pile on.

 

[Wigarus]

A massive issue undealt with by the board/club is the impact media has. It is insidious and damaging, and while I understand the sentiment that winning is likely to change that, it is a shallow solution. Regularly we have seen media go after players, coaches, management and the club itself.

Winning fixes everything. It's a win / loss business.

 

[Wigarus]

I think Wigarus made/makes some good points re the board. But doubling down on the AFLW side (which i disagree with him on) was a mistake IMHO.

Our board is appointed by the WAFC yeah? The same WAFC that appoints the Eagles board? Or have I got that wrong? My view is that we have no chance of improving our board performance if we have no chance ourselves of appointing its members. Correct me if I’m wrong please.

I only criticized the accounting decision. Some people are so precious that no matter what you say they choose to take offense.

I've said a number of times that I haven't even watched game of the womens league, I don't know any of the players, I'm not a woman so I can't live vicariously through aflw players the way I can with the mens game. Couple that with the fact I have a family, a full-time job, and god forbid, other interests I barely have time to watch the 1 game of footy a week that I do.

I don't care if our AFLW team sacks their coach, head S&C person or football operations manager, I don't follow trade week, I am 100% totally ignorant of it.

I don't know where I have said a single nasty thing about it apart from that I think we should not have paid for it when a club just down the road, that has proven it knows how to win a flag didn't pay for one.

 

[Dockeroo]

Winning fixes everything. It's a win / loss business.

I am very sceptical that assholes like quarterbrain will stop their bias against us when we start winning lots of games