Coach Bomber's coaching (PLAY NICE)

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

I would ask you respectfully to name the senior players that has had unexpected, significant or extraordinary development under Thompson? Name the young kids that have 'come on' under Thompson? I don't exactly see a heap of previously untapped talent blossoming right now. Name the ways in which we have improved from last season?

Sit back and ask yourself whether you would want the 2013 or 2014 version of the Bombers playing in a Grand Final next week?

I guess I do find it disappointing because I expected us to clearly improve this season. Chapman coming in, Daniher one year on.. all our younger brigade that year old.. another year in the system.. the ASADA crap out of the way.. I guess I expected to see a better team.. not one that is praised for limping across the line against the dogs in a dispirited and ugly performance.

Watch the team blossom when the Asada crap is finally gone and Hird returns reckon the boys miss him.

 

[rines]

Watch the team blossom when the Asada crap is finally gone and Hird returns reckon the boys miss him.

Like I've said.. I am really excited for next season.. really think we will be knocking on the door big time...

Still hold high hopes for this season though.. if Bomber takes his gonads out of the equation and puts Carlisle back and repairs his relationship with the players.. then we might get a roll on.

We have all the players I think.. yes we are one key forward short.. but with Bellchambers/Hurley/Ryder rotating through to help out JD.. and Watson and Goddard and Chappy.. we can kick enough.. so we should be in the finals at a minimum.

 

[yaco55]

Rines

Are you suggesting that Thompson has lost the players ?

 

[rines]

Rines

Are you suggesting that Thompson has lost the players ?

Yeah and you can all pick on me for the next five years about it. Yes, I do believe that to a certain extend Bomber has lost players. I do not believe they are playing as ferociously as they did for Hird last year (or the year before that).

I know for a fact the 'recovery/lazy' issue caused angst for a least two senior listed players. I don't find it that hard to imagine that if those individuals were upset by it, others would have been as well.

I know it will be laughed at, ridiculed, picked on, mocked etc etc.. It is my opinion on what I am observing at this point.

Does that mean we won't have a good season? not necessarily. Can it change quickly? yes, I believe it can.

I think the first step would be some open honest between coach and playing group, go back to some basics.. play Carlisle back.. and go back to the old game plan.. and really go out and have fun.. and not be compared to Geelong for a week.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I know for a fact the 'recovery/lazy' issue caused angst for a least two senior listed players. I don't find it that hard to imagine that if those individuals were upset by it, others would have been as well.

If a sweeping statement made by the coach to the media causes you angst, you most likely aren't mentally tough enough or ready to be in a premiership team.

 

[DapperDon]

To make an outlandish statement that Bomber has lost the players needs to be better implied than just "I know". How do you know? Why did the players take it to heart rather than think what they were doing might have been not good enough?

To me this question will be answered at the end of the season, if we don't fall in a heap mid year then we are better prepared under Bomber than we have been with Hird. This is a fact nobody can deny.

Putting Carlisle down back doesn't fix our problem up forward. Hurley has to stay back, reverting just makes no sense. Preferably they both play defence, but for now Carlisle needs to take his tissues away from his face and start doing the job that's been given to him. It's not like he's never played forward before, Christ he played there as a junior.

If players are sobbing and waiting for Hird to come back then I say **** them, get out of my club. You play for the jumper and nothing else.

Hird and Sheedy is the prime example of this, a very tedious relationship but both professional enough to know what their main job was. Any player that is purposefully not giving 100% because of the coach doesn't deserve to wear the sash.

 

[The Speaker]

He lost the players in the second quarter and then found them again after the break.

 

[Matthew_Lloyd]

He lost the players in the second quarter and then found them again after the break.

No, Hird snuck into the coaching box at quarter-time and took over for the second quarter. He left after half-time as the AFL were onto him. Bomber took over after half-time

 

[Duckworth]

I would ask you respectfully to name the senior players that has had unexpected, significant or extraordinary development under Thompson? Name the young kids that have 'come on' under Thompson? I don't exactly see a heap of previously untapped talent blossoming right now. Name the ways in which we have improved from last season?

There are a few players in career best form; Hurley, Heppell, Hooker.

I guess I do find it disappointing because I expected us to clearly improve this season. Chapman coming in, Daniher one year on.. all our younger brigade that year old.. another year in the system.. the ASADA crap out of the way.. I guess I expected to see a better team.. not one that is praised for limping across the line against the dogs in a dispirited and ugly performance.

Just because you expect something to happen doesn't mean it will. If you're not prepared to give Bomber the credit for things that have gone well this season, you can't just blame him for things that haven't gone our way either. The first 3 rounds we were good. I'm yet to see an argument that convinces me that Bomber is the cause of the last 4 rounds form.

edit: certainly not losing the playing group.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Our midfield has been flat.

We lost a lot of inside grunt with Hocking and Myers going down. Watson has been pretty well held and Zaka is horribly out of form.

We need to get the engine room firing again, especially those who get the ball.

 

[rines]

There are a few players in career best form; Hurley, Heppell, Hooker.

Hurley: We've all known for a long long time that he is a better defender than forward, the key being is he a better forward than the other options (Carlisle/Hooker) to which I say yes. Also his form has been patchy, he played some inspired footy up forward last year too.

Heppell: Was always tracking to improve and I think his output is very similar to last year except he is in an expanded role in the midfield. This expanded role was always going to happen once he built up his tank more. That isn't coaching, the guy is a gun.

Hooker: Hooker has been doing this for two years now.. just finally more people noticing. Last year Hooker was often our second best after Carlisle.. but he got votes in some games too. This year he has stepped into the main slot because Carlisle has been shunted forward. A very good player same as last year.

So next?

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Hurley: We've all known for a long long time that he is a better defender than forward, the key being is he a better forward than the other options (Carlisle/Hooker) to which I say yes. Also his form has been patchy, he played some inspired footy up forward last year too.

Heppell: Was always tracking to improve and I think his output is very similar to last year except he is in an expanded role in the midfield. This expanded role was always going to happen once he built up his tank more. That isn't coaching, the guy is a gun.

Hooker: Hooker has been doing this for two years now.. just finally more people noticing. Last year Hooker was often our second best after Carlisle.. but he got votes in some games too. This year he has stepped into the main slot because Carlisle has been shunted forward. A very good player same as last year.

So next?

Not really disagreeing with you, but as good as Hooker was last year, he has vastly stepped up again this year. He is rarely beaten, takes over a dozen marks every week, is now great with foot and is used a lot to kick the ball out of defence.

He has taken his form from last year raised it a gear.

The mockery from most when we tried to package Hooker and our first rounder for Caddy, is now looking as foolish as I suggested it would. Geez Bigfooty can be full of arseclowns sometimes.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

And that he is automatically a 'better' coach than Hird.. which I still strongly dispute.

I strongly dispute that Norm Smith is a better coach than Mark Neeld, facts be damned.

 

[rines]

I strongly dispute that Norm Smith is a better coach than Mark Neeld, facts be damned.

Good for you.

 

[Despair]

I think the absence of Hird is being felt somewhat, Bomber is a great coach, his record speaks for itself, but I think we can all agree that Hird is a talisman for this club. He is loved by all and the players seem to lift for him.

I'm not sure if Bomber's laconic, laid back nature is the perfect fit for our current list. I think it was great for Geelong who were quite a seasoned, mature bunch of guys who are pretty much self-sufficient and could get fire themselves up for game day, but I think our team being a bit younger and less experienced really needs some fire in the belly from their coach. I want to see Bomber more intense.

That said, Bomber is a great tactician. I also think Hird and Thompson are a great fit and hope they're both at the helm for years to come.

One thing that scares me.... watching the guys sing the song on Saturday night.. I don't think i've ever seen/heard a more uninspired victory song in my life. Is it because they played poorly against poor opposition? I hope that's all.

 

[BigJoeD_]

I'm not sure if Bomber's laconic, laid back nature is the perfect fit for our current list. I think it was great for Geelong who were quite a seasoned, mature bunch of guys who are pretty much self-sufficient and could get fire themselves up for game day, but I think our team being a bit younger and less experienced really needs some fire in the belly from their coach. I want to see Bomber more intense.

Bomber built the Geelong list from the ground up (2000-2010). He developed those kids into the stars you see today.
3 premierships later, I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing.

I would be amazed if the Bomber you see in the media is the same as the Bomber behind closed doors.

 

[rines]

I think the absence of Hird is being felt somewhat, Bomber is a great coach, his record speaks for itself, but I think we can all agree that Hird is a talisman for this club. He is loved by all and the players seem to lift for him.

That said, Bomber is a great tactician. I also think Hird and Thompson are a great fit and hope they're both at the helm for years to come.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Howard Moon]

look... how are we going to trade Carslile to GWS for Boyd if he keeps stinking it up fwd? *sarcasm intended

 

[Lord Nicholson]

7 games.

7 ****ing games.

Just thought I'd dish out that valuable metric.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

I would ask you respectfully to name the senior players that has had unexpected, significant or extraordinary development under Thompson? Name the young kids that have 'come on' under Thompson? I don't exactly see a heap of previously untapped talent blossoming right now. Name the ways in which we have improved from last season?

- Michael Hurley is playing his best, most consistent footy since 2009 or 10. I put that purely down to the move into defence.
- Cale Hooker is even better than the last two years, although that's probably natural progression.
- Heath Hocking looks back to his pre-2012 concussion best
- Dave Myers into the leadership group and playing his career best footy. Natural progression to a large extent, but I believe that the faith Bomber, Hirdy and Goody are showing in him is a massive factor.

- Martin Gleeson and Jackson Merrett have come from the clouds. Far better than anyone expected this year.
- Zach Merrett has probably exceeded expectations.

The reason I'm pretty comfortable is that there's a very real danger that we'll be a good/talented team instead of a great team. Richmond and North have the basis of a premiership list IMO, but they'll never come close under Dimma or Scott. The thing that sets Hawthorn, Geelong, Fremantle and Port Adelaide apart this year, plus Sydney in recent times, is that they work hard FOR each other. That's a combination of structure and desire. Outside of those five teams, we're the only other club with the talent to be a chance, but more importantly the coach to make it happen. I believe Hirdy is on the same page, but I think a year like this where Bomber gets a few noses out of joint in order to get the message across is what we need.

 

[BrunoV]

Bomber's coaching has been ok, certainly nothing to justify the "keep Hird away from the club and keep Bomber on as head coach" calls from some in the early part of the season.

The one that really left a sour taste in my mouth was that Freo game where we named Fletcher and Chapman in the team when we knew they weren't ever going to be on the flight. Completely arrogant and stupid behaviour. Probably made Goddard's injury worse, which in turn left us with one of our best players missing for the best part of 3 of our losses. Hopefully Bomber is taking this gig more seriously now and we won't pull those tricks again.

That's what I thought until he explained himself. He said that they didn't want to bring too many players to Perth because some were at risk of not having played a match (VFL/AFL) for too long a period and it was important to give those players the release of playing.

 

[Keystone agony]

Hes done some good things and some not so good.

Good

• Got Chappy
• Brought a fresh look and feel to the club we have been really serious for good reason for the last 12-18 months (Sort of counteracted with the bads)
• Played Hurley back in his best position (However this is counteracted by Carlisle not delivering forward, its really nullified and a no win decision either way).
• The development of Merrett and Gleeson under Bomber at the helm. (Merrett could be argued as natural progression/development) - Gleeson surprised me and most id say but ive never seen him play VFL so hard for me to say. Having said that with Merrett he has been pushed and played in a new role under Bomber.

Even
Hookers naturally progressed nothing at all to do with Bomber. He might be getting a few more marks on his average because of the game style we play but so are the entire Melbourne side.

Not so Good - I agree a fair chunk with Rines

• Carlilse forward (Bomber cant win so i mentioned it as a positive and negative - counteracted and nullified). He should however be swinging him around. Hes become slightly stubborn with this one.
• I also agree the players look flat but cant be the coaches fault unless its from the start. We have been great as usual in first quarters this year. Id question whether we are training too hard throughout the week? cant say without looking. Certainly could be a player issue which a fair part of it id say is.
• His too laid back nature. I didnt like that video after the buldogs game in that he had addy Ryder their giggling an chuckling away with Bomber being his laid back easy way. It seemed to be all positive which most of the game for me as not and shouldnt be said likewise in front of the players. It shouldnt be seen as an acceptable performance and the players shouldnt read into or be able to believe that by seeing it from the coaches. Im happy for this nature at the start in preseason but now he has to get serious, i hope he isnt different behind closed doors, which i thought hed be until i saw that video (i know not really closed doors but Paddy was having a hell of a time).
• Not enough moves against Fremantle i agree with aswell. I dont think we couldve won it things didnt add up on our day and we got smashed in the end. He threw Hurley forward late but i thought that couldve and shouldve happened earlier. M.Johnson, Mcpharlin and Dawson were happy with their small sized opponents and Freo had a small backline themselves so Hooker, Fletcher couldve been challenged into doing that job especially considering Pav was well on top of Hurley i thought.
• As much as Gleeson and Merrett have improved under him. Guys like Zacka, Watson, Carlisle, Ryder, Melksham, Howlett and co just arent near their best. Has to go both ways

I think hes been okay for us this year, pretty good. Alot of those positives are counteracted by the negatives (vice versa).

Alot does have to come back to the players. I really do question their want to win a flag, they dont seem to have that killer instinct ie: when we play Geelong this year i reckon we will step up and play pretty damn good because it will be seen as a challenge to the side. Most of them dont want to he hard yards for a flag right now they happy to play up and down footy, get paid well and not put too muh effort in. Thats the way i see it.

 

[BrunoV]

Well it is interesting to see how he might respond.

1. Carlisle being played forward.
   
   Hooker and Carlisle are essentially the same defender. Hurley adds a point of difference for opposition forwards whose strength is hard and fast leading. I suppose you need to look at whether we get a better combination with Carlisle and Ambrose, who might be on his way back, forward than what we get at the other end if Carlisle is there. The most pressing issue is whether Carlisle is the best option for the forward post (which I think is arguable).
2. Lack of energy and spirit in the playing group
   Lack of energy is apparent. It might have something to do with the attempt to reverse our usual form line. It may be because we've had a virus go through the club. Players who are not playing from Thompson because they might not like home truths are almost certainly the players who need to be replaced. We're a terribly lazy, entitled team.
3. Starting 2-4, now 3-4, compared to our great starts in past seasons
   Already answered as much. The focus is very much on being good at the meaningful end of the season.
4. Not playing TBell this week.
   He's been average to poor in the VFL. He adds nothing to the movement of the forwardline which is one of the biggest problems and is arguably still yet to establish himself as a truly AFL standard ruck.
   
5. Playing Dempsey without coming back through the VFL, even though he hadn't even been allowed to train with the main squad until the Tuesday (3 days before the game). He wanted some to run and take the game on. Pretty hard to argue this point though. Dempsey has been horrendous so far. I suppose one point that could be made is that there is no one else worthy of a game at half back (given fitness of Gleeson, form of Dalgleish and Edwards and the re-casting of Aylett as a midfielder).
6. No moves during the Freo game until it was too late. Match day moves...really?
7. No moves during the St Kilda game until it was too late. See answer to 6.
   
8. Keeping the extra man back against Collingwood when they threw an extra man into the contest, we lost on clearances 10-1. The theory is that you're supposed to turn the ball over at half back. It's what everyone does to us when we win clearances. Jury is still out on the value of clearances.
   
9. Aloof and arrogant at times during press conferences and in the box. If you're worried about this you're focus is in the wrong place.
   
10. Has reportedly suggested to friends he wants to keep the job next year. Is there any interim coach out there that we could have selected who would not want to continue coaching a side (especially in the excitement of the first month of the season)?
    
11. Changing the game plan to a predictable, outdated and boring style that doesn't match our output last year. The point is to develop a sustainable system of play so that we have the energy required to finish a season off strongly. It is also about developing a plan B and teaching the players to respond to the context of a game.
    
12. Being overly critical of our players 'post WA' recovery, when nearly ALL teams coming back from Perth struggle, let alone a day game in 40 degree heat. I think the point is that we don't want to be in the "nearly ALL". The really good teams still win games. West Coats and Freo do it every second week.
    
13. Comparing us to Geelong all the time. It is a fairly relevant experience.
    
14. Referring to Geelong stars as the benchmark. Maybe he could make some more references to Hawthorn I suppose.
    
15. Playing Carlisle forward and destroying any shred of confidence he had as a player. Carlisle does what the team needs him to do and, as far as any sooking is concerned, can pull his head out of his arse. A lot of what is happening is not his fault and the fault of what is happening up the ground (given that forwards are really just the end product of what happens before them). Also see answer to 1.
    
16. Was happy to take credit when things going well.. but when things went bad it was all 'the players issues'. Please cite examples of taking credit and compare them with what you consider to be player blaming. He was very much about the journey and teach the players even when it was going well.
17. Called out Jake Carlisle publicly, which I believed was the wrong way to approach the issue. Tough one to defend. Bomber thinks he knows players and knows how to get the best out of them. If Carlisle and Ors are not happy with being called out for unprofessional it probably says more about them.

And a couple of other things, but that should get you started.

 

[Eleven 38]

It is round 7, we've had a tough start to the year, we however are 3-4 which is okay, (I had us 8th in my ladder at the start of the year)

I do believe that Thompson doesn't have the players like Hird did last year, and whether a stand in coach will be able to get the most out of the playing group is the big question. While Hird had the players on a steady improve, if the players don't believe they can win the premiership this year then it will be tough for Thompson to get the best out of them.

I also believe that the slower start would be due to a different training regime, where the players have been trained so that peak form is in August where as previous years it has been peak form in April.

A consistent forward line has also been an issue for the coaches which they are still trying to nut out, I think they have the right combos and should stick with it!

 

[Keystone agony]

It is round 7, we've had a tough start to the year, we however are 3-4 which is okay, (I had us 8th in my ladder at the start of the year)

I do believe that Thompson doesn't have the players like Hird did last year, and whether a stand in coach will be able to get the most out of the playing group is the big question. While Hird had the players on a steady improve, if the players don't believe they can win the premiership this year then it will be tough for Thompson to get the best out of them.

I also believe that the slower start would be due to a different training regime, where the players have been trained so that peak form is in August where as previous years it has been peak form in April.

A consistent forward line has also been an issue for the coaches which they are still trying to nut out, I think they have the right combos and should stick with it!

8th is a pretty low mark i wouldve thought considering we were top 2 of the ladder in round 15 last year. Finishing 6th on the ladder and much higher before ASADA became so much more.

I think i was confident with a 3-6 finish - dont think i did an actual ladder predictor. But i thought Geelong and Pies would slide a bit helping us.

Along with that we would gain Chapman (exactly what we required). Another year of development of our most talented player on the list on JoeD (Whats he done now, 3 preseasons with the club). Another year together forming a strong 22 relationship. Bomber as coach. The last few years we had, had a pretty tough run with injuries and i thought we could only get it better, not worse with that.

I did wonder how much of the ASADA effect would actually impact 2014 rather than 2013. I think this could be a fair reason to a few players being really flat from last year. I know its a long time but its been a huge issue for the players and team. Last year we used it as motivation then it finally burnt us out and took its toll late in the season. This year i think we are still flat and burnt out from it all, hasnt exactly disappeared either, it still looms. Just my read on it.