Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[ferball]

I think we saw the real meaning of “Intifada” on display in Bondi.

You think wrong obviously.

 

[ferball]

So you disagree the Bondi Terrorists could have been carrying out in their minds an Intifada?

Of course they weren't.

Do yourself a favour and learn what words mean.

 

[ferball]

I think it’s pretty obvious that this “intifada” carry on is a call to violence.

Its not.

If anything its a call to santion Israel and boycott their products.

 

[ferball]

Retrofitting a definition to engineer a result. I'd barely heard the word infintada used in any context by anyone before Bondi now it's seemingly public enemy number 1 and banning it's use is absolutely essential.

Its only ever been used to reference Palestinians resisting the Israeli occupation.

Nothing else at any time.

Muslims resisting western invasions this century haven't used it. Even Hezbollah doesn't use it except while referencing Palestinian resistance to Israel.

 

[HoldMyBeer]

Of course they weren't.

Do yourself a favour and learn what words mean.

The extremists who reside in the ME are sub-human and I'll include Netanyahu.

 

[ferball]

The extremists who reside in the ME are sub-human and I'll include Netanyahu.

No they're not.

That's the problem. They're all too human.

You're just as capable of behaving like them given the right circumstances. Me too.

So are any of us.

Unless we make a conscious choice never to, even if scumbags murder and rape our families in front of us.

 

[ferball]

Up there with Cultural Marxist.

I just turned 60, tertiary educated, have plenty of lifelong friends who are academics, and I have yet to meet a single cultural Marxist. In fact I don’t know of a single academic anywhere who self-identifies as a cultural Marxist.

And yet apparently they are whiteanting western civilisation from inside our tertiary institutions as we speak. Probably didn’t even take a day off for Christmas.

The term you are referring to is a Nazi term.

Well they used the words "Cultural Bolshevism".

But its essentially exactly the same. Both words refer to the same things and are used to promote ethno-nationalism.

 

[ferball]

Nobody here is saying that. My point is that our emphasis should be on punishing the bad guys rather than insisting on resilience in the victims.

Why can't we do both?

The issue is that we don’t seem to crack down on Islamic terrorism, rather we have something like a tag and release system where we go “yep, that’s a terrorist, off you go”.

If you commit terrorist acts you will get busted and do time or end up dead. It happens regularly. The definition of terrorist acts include talking about terrorism like its a good thing and people go to prison for it.

You seem to be calling for ideas you don't like to be considered terrorism. This is dodgy as.

 

[ferball]

There's a marked difference between someone with aviators, a singlet tee and thongs on in Byron who smells aggressively of marijuana saying, "Globalise the Intifada!' - or a little girl saying it, when she's bilingual and mightn't even understand what the word means - and someone covering their face with an AK-47 saying the same thing while it's pointing at Israel. There's also the distinct difference between the word external to the Israel-Palestine conflict and what it means to that conflict: an intifada versus the Intifada.

There's also within western circles a kind of orientalist effect that islamic/semitic words/phrases has over us, an exotic interest that captures the mind. Frank Herbert used words like kwisatz haderach - taken from hebrew, translated essentially to mean the Great Leap - and jihad quite deliberately, to evoke this effect in our minds. A jihad is much more terrifying than a crusade is despite the words meaning essentially the same thing.

I've said this before, but I don't know the answer. What I do know is that allowing the shooters to genuinely alter how Australians choose to live their lives is precisely what they wanted - up to and including the expression of political opinions worldwide, of which the use of the word Intifada is included - and **** them if I'm going to give what they wanted to them.

How do you smell aggressively of marijuana?

 

[ElectricG]

Why can't we do both?

I would settle for that, but if our leaders’ words are lazy then their actions probably will be too.

The definition of terrorist acts include talking about terrorism like its a good thing and people go to prison for it.

Then the Bondi shooters should have been in gaol.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Isn't art intended to provoke?

then you would get people making flagrantly offensive graffiti slogans claiming it is also art

 

[Crankyhawk]

No they're not.

That's the problem. They're all too human.

You're just as capable of behaving like them given the right circumstances. Me too.

So are any of us.

Unless we make a conscious choice never to, even if scumbags murder and rape our families in front of us.

i think where political leaders are - giving orders to wipe out large numbers of civillians - is something I comfortably say I could not do. House to house searches for terrorists/ aggressive policing yes but I think I would draw the line at offensive war against a population (as in being the one to declare war)
that said I would be dirty as **** if fighting a defensive war. No such thing as war crimes in my mind defending land, and I suppose there could be a line between targeting energy facilities/ manufacturing inside the country that is invading me and killing civilians
I suppose Netty could be thinking this is still some form of defensive war

 

[Crankyhawk]

The term you are referring to is a Nazi term.

Well they used the words "Cultural Bolshevism".

But its essentially exactly the same. Both words refer to the same things and are used to promote ethno-nationalism.

I had always interpreted cultural marxism as to mean the erasure of cultural values that do not place the state and the party front and center. Think widespread literature destruction like book burnings, or exiling university professors to work in farms (great leap forward/ cultural revolution)

 

[ElectricG]

I had always interpreted cultural marxism as to mean the erasure of cultural values that do not place the state and the party front and center. Think widespread literature destruction like book burnings, or exiling university professors to work in farms (great leap forward/ cultural revolution)

Jordan Peterson (yeah.. I know) did a lot to circulate that term. My understanding of the way it’s used by these daily wire types as follows: marxists have given up on class struggle and instead have repurposed a lot of the arguments to talk about other identity groups such as race. Not saying I agree with it or that it’s legitimate, it’s just what they’re on about when they say it.

 

[ferball]

i think where political leaders are - giving orders to wipe out large numbers of civillians - is something I comfortably say I could not do. House to house searches for terrorists/ aggressive policing yes but I think I would draw the line at offensive war against a population (as in being the one to declare war)
that said I would be dirty as **** if fighting a defensive war. No such thing as war crimes in my mind defending land, and I suppose there could be a line between targeting energy facilities/ manufacturing inside the country that is invading me and killing civilians
I suppose Netty could be thinking this is still some form of defensive war

I have no idea what he is thinking.

Maybe he never got over his brother dying rescuing hostages at Entebbe.

The thing is he doesn't want peace, never did and even if he wasn't directly involved he certainly incited the death of Yitzak Rabin for trying to make peace with the PLO/PA.

And yeah, leadership is different. If you're responsible for other people then its a very different proposition. Especially in a defensive war.

 

[Gethelred]

then you would get people making flagrantly offensive graffiti slogans claiming it is also art

You do.

 

[ferball]

I had always interpreted cultural marxism as to mean the erasure of cultural values that do not place the state and the party front and center. Think widespread literature destruction like book burnings, or exiling university professors to work in farms (great leap forward/ cultural revolution)

Nazi claims about attacks on conceptions of family, identity, music, art and intellectual life were generally referred to as Cultural Bolshevism, the Bolsheviks being the Marxist revolutionary movement in Russia.


This is basically exactly what people who use the term Cultural Marxism are referring to.

 

[ferball]

Then the Bondi shooters should have been in gaol.

Probably yeah. Definitely should have had their weapons impounded at least till their trip to Mindinao was properly investigated.

Altho people who go to Mindinao and disappear off the radar for a while shouldn't be considered terrorists. Its something I'm considering doing at some point.

 

[Markfs]

Well aware of the dictionary meaning.

Does it personally distress you?

 

[Markfs]

I think anyone supporting a palestinian state should be able to see that old strategies like protesting are going to be self-defeating. Abusing someone, firebombing someone or shooting someone is effectively shooting your own cause in the foot.

They need to adopt the strategies of the people who opposing such a state, and work behind closed doors.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Does it personally distress you?

He longs for a post truth world where he can just make shit up, willy nilly.

He wants fascism, run by people that look and think like him. Or whatever Newscorp tells him he wants.
Whichever comes first.

 

[Markfs]

He longs for a post truth world where he can just make shit up, willy nilly.

He wants fascism, run by people that look and think like him. Or whatever Newscorp tells him he wants.
Whichever comes first.

The antisemitism czar speaks about education. Education for children, public servants, police. Education in the holocaust etc.

So in the spirit of education, I asked a poster yesterday if he was offended by my account signature that talks about the magpies, and today I asked about intifada....but I get no response.

I presume these people are jewish. If they wont express why certain things offend them, how am I going to censure myself on what i am going to say? I'm not jewish. I dont know their sensitivities.

I'll tell you a true story ghostie. I was working in a place where a young girl raised a grievance about being sexually harassed. It was decided that all male employees would undergo training, but no one would be told anything about the offence, not even the general nature of it.

Now many might see such a decision as addressing the issue. Some might feel resentment. I'll let you be the judge.

 

[campbell]

Outlawed or not it’s not ideal to see kids screaming it in our streets

Gawd help us.
When my kids were little, they accompanied me on marches through Melbourne streets.
It was our right to group together for our beliefs....
in our case, workcover,and school closures.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Gawd help us.
When my kids were little, they accompanied me on marches through Melbourne streets.
It was our right to group together for our beliefs....
in our case, workcover,and school closures.

So you don't think these things might be a smidge different?

 

[campbell]

So you don't think these things might be a smidge different?

I think, we all have the right to gather and march.....

Peacefully.