Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[10571z]

Why are you pushing this lie that that's what the girl wanted?

What's the link between that child, and the two Islamic extremists who committed a mass shooting at Bondi?
What do you think should be done to this child?

I mean you could answer my question?

First of all nothing should be done to the child. It’s simply disappointing to see children lead chants asking for uprising on Australian soil.

Why are they chanting that? For what purpose? So Hamas see the video? Just another chant and protest that does nothing to actually help anything and potentially inflame passions of people from either side.

 

[Gough]

Retrofitting a definition to engineer a result. I'd barely heard the word infintada used in any context by anyone before Bondi now it's seemingly public enemy number 1 and banning it's use is absolutely essential.

 

[CM86]

Intifada is a call for violent “resistance”. Calls for intifada to take place in nations other than those at war is absolutely terrorist language. Hence they are finally banning some of these chants after decades of getting preferential treatment.

So your position is the same as the other two, that this girl was calling for the Bondi mass shooting.

What should be done about this girl? How much violence should she face now at school, online, in person etc? Easily identifiable.
What would you like to see happening to her?
Removed from parents for radicalising her into supporting mass shootings?

You know 100% she's chanting rhymes in support of Palestinians in Gaza and The West Bank.
It's why you have to carefully stick to a vague overview of "call for violence".
If she's calling for violence, then the people connecting her to the Bondi massacre are calling for violence towards her.

 

[Gethelred]

I think we saw the real meaning of “Intifada” on display in Bondi.

Apparently it’s now considered completely normal to hear young kids leading these chants on the streets of Sydney. Even more heart-warming was watching crowds gather the day after civilians were slaughtered in Israel before any retaliation to celebrate it on Australian soil.

Okay.

The global understanding of the word Intifada is in relation to the Israel-Palestine conflict. The Bondi attackers carried ISIS flags, who are at odds with Hamas.

In this post, you have implied more or less directly that there is a connection between the Palestinian occupation and the Bondi beach attackers. Can you demonstrate that such a connection exists, 10571z?

And, of course, the sight of ISIS flags flying above our most famous landmarks was just the icing on the cake.

Which national landmarks have had ISIS flags flying above them?

 

[Gethelred]

I think it’s pretty obvious that this “intifada” carry on is a call to violence.

Is each and every call for revolution necessarily a call to violence?

 

[CM86]

I mean you could answer my question?

First of all nothing should be done to the child. It’s simply disappointing to see children lead chants asking for uprising on Australian soil.

Why are they chanting that? For what purpose? So Hamas see the video? Just another chant and protest that does nothing to actually help anything and potentially inflame passions of people from either side.

Not sure why you're on here promoting fear, hate and violence towards that young girl.

You're dangerous and hateful.

If anything happens to that kid, you were part of it.
Because you know she isn't promoting hate or violence.
You know she isn't part of ISIS.
You know she isn't using the word in any form of the same way as a terrorist.

So why the **** are freakshows like you trying to link her to the evilness that was the Bondi massacre?

She is chanting rhymes in support of Palestinians in Gaza and The West Bank.
You are linking her to the Bondi mass shooting.

You're spreading her image around the internet, linking her with the mass shooting.

I know it's hard for you, but just because she isn't white, doesn't mean she isn't human....

 

[ElectricG]

So your position is the same as the other two, that this girl was calling for the Bondi mass shooting.

What should be done about this girl? How much violence should she face now at school, online, in person etc? Easily identifiable.
What would you like to see happening to her?
Removed from parents for radicalising her into supporting mass shootings?

You know 100% she's chanting rhymes in support of Palestinians in Gaza and The West Bank.
It's why you have to carefully stick to a vague overview of "call for violence".
If she's calling for violence, then the people connecting her to the Bondi massacre are calling for violence towards her.

She is actually using violent language. I am not. Pointing out that a young girl is using terrorist language is not a call to violence, it’s an observation of a disturbing fact. What are people supposed to do? Just ignore it because pointing it out is encouraging violence?

Is each and every call for revolution necessarily a call to violence?

I suppose not. Somehow with these types I don’t think they’re channeling Ghandi though.

 

[10571z]

Okay.

The global understanding of the word Intifada is in relation to the Israel-Palestine conflict. The Bondi attackers carried ISIS flags, who are at odds with Hamas.

In this post, you have implied more or less directly that there is a connection between the Palestinian occupation and the Bondi beach attackers. Can you demonstrate that such a collection exists, 10571z?

Which national landmarks have had ISIS flags flying above them?

I’d say this article basically covers it all for you

Sydney cleric, IS child groomer target pro-Palestinian cause for recruits

Sydney cleric Wisam Haddad is working with a convicted terrorism recruiter to exploit the pro-Palestinian movement, radicalise Australian teens and feed Islamic State's revival, an ABC investigation reveals.

www.abc.net.au

“Preacher Wisam Haddad and Islamic State terrorist Youssef Uweinat are targeting the pro-Palestinian movement for recruits”

 

[RCAB]

So it means to start acting out violently. Typical.

You're being intellectually dishonest here, yet again; Continually ignoring the definition.

Why after all these years do you continue to support a disgusting genocidal state like Israel that slaughters, maims and starves children in the tens of thousands?

Have you heard of the word Herem, Amalek or phrases like "mowing the grass?" Any issues with those? Do you know what those mean? Probably not given you "pretended" not to know what Haaretz was last week.

Israeli politics uses Joshua Narratives, terms and rhetoric like "no univolved citizens" and "all human animals" (which includes children, like 10571z is doing here .. You have no issues with that) to justify its own Mered (מרד) or in other words Intifada... but it's not really an uprising for them, they've been terrorising Palestinians for a century, long before Palestinians started to fight back in unified numbers.

Ben-Gurion, 1937 (letter to his son Amos):
“We must expel the Arabs and take their places…. And, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places- then we have force at our disposal”

Ze'ev Jabotinsky (who was part of the Irgun terrorist paramilitary that killed dozens of Palestinians women and children prior to the Nakba and bombed British headquarters in Palestine) wrote the "Iron Wall essay" which stipulated that indigenous Palestinians (being that they were rational people) would NEVER accept colonisation and they Israel would have to take it by force.

I could also tell you what Herzel said in 1896 in the "Jewish State" or Ilan Pappé an Ashkenazi Jew borni Haifa, and a uni professor who wrote several books including The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine back in 2006 (important year that right? You could go read that book) or what Benny Morris discovered in archived Zionist documents that Ethnic Cleansing not only has occurred (obvious to anyone with half a brain) but that Zionist admitted it was necessary.

But all does not matter to you..

What matters to you is to "keep" the assymetrical nature of the conflict, and continually misrepresent Intifada.

The Zionists started it, they started the atrocities and even admitted as much. They deserve to be punished for it and therefore the only moral imperative here for me is to support their Palestinian and Islamic Intifada.

 

[CM86]

She is actually using violent language. I am not. Pointing out that a young girl is using terrorist language is not a call to violence, it’s an observation of a disturbing fact. What are people supposed to do? Just ignore it because pointing it out is encouraging violence?


I suppose not. Somehow with these types I don’t think they’re channeling Ghandi though.

No she isn't.

And for the last time. The problem is that people are spreading her image, and trying to connect her to the Bondi massacre.

That is a lie. She is not and did not do that. She did not and does not have any connection to or involvement to the mass shooting.
That repeated lie/insinuation is a call for violence towards that child.
Spreading her image around, lying about her, and connecting her to something that most Australians still haven't processed properly, is evil.

 

[ElectricG]

You're being intellectually dishonest here, yet again; Continually ignoring the definition.

Why after all these years do you continue to support a disgusting genocidal state like Israel that slaughters, maims and starves children in the tens of thousands?

Have you heard of the word Herem, Amalek or phrases like "mowing the grass?" Any issues with those? Do you know what those mean? Probably not given you "pretended" not to know what Haaretz was last week.

Israeli politics uses Joshua Narratives, terms and rhetoric like "no univolved citizens" and "all human animals" (which includes children, like 10571z is doing here .. You have no issues with that) to justify its own Mered (מרד) or in other words Intifada... but it's not really an uprising for them, they've been terrorising Palestinians for a century, long before Palestinians started to fight back in unified numbers.

Ben-Gurion, 1937 (letter to his son Amos):
“We must expel the Arabs and take their places…. And, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places- then we have force at our disposal”

Ze'ev Jabotinsky (who was part of the Irgun terrorist paramilitary that killed dozens of Palestinians women and children prior to the Nakba and bombed British headquarters in Palestine) wrote the "Iron Wall essay" which stipulated that indigenous Palestinians (being that they were rational people) would NEVER accept colonisation and they Israel would have to take it by force.

I could also tell you what Herzel said in 1896 in the "Jewish State" or Ilan Pappé an Ashkenazi Jew borni Haifa, and a uni professor who wrote several books including The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine back in 2006 (important year that right? You could go read that book) or what Benny Morris discovered in archived Zionist documents that Ethnic Cleansing not only has occurred (obvious to anyone with half a brain) but that Zionist admitted it was necessary.

But all does not matter to you..

What matters to you is to "keep" the assymetrical nature of the conflict, and continually misrepresent Intifada.

The Zionists started it, they started the atrocities and even admitted as much. They deserve to be punished for it and therefore the only moral imperative here for me is to support their Palestinian and Islamic Intifada.

Shuuuut up.

No she isn't.

And for the last time. The problem is that people are spreading her image, and trying to connect her to the Bondi massacre.

That is a lie. She is not and did not do that. She did not and does not have any connection to or involvement to the mass shooting.
That repeated lie/insinuation is a call for violence towards that child.
Spreading her image around, lying about her, and connecting her to something that most Australians still haven't processed properly, is evil.

She is using the the language that justifies and promotes that type of activity. I don’t think anyone is accusing her of direct involvement. It’s more like the relationship between the Nazi who displays a Nazi symbol, and the Nazi who actually goes and bombs a synagogue or mosque.

Do you acknowledge that the language she is using would likely be banned under new laws?

 

[RCAB]

Shuuuut up.

This is obviously your concession in the debate. Feel free to leave it after all these years, with your tail between your legs.

Come back when you've read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine at least once... I've read it twice already.

ps. I've reported your post but I guess it won't matter because I quoted you now.

 

[ElectricG]

This is obviously your concession in the debate. Feel free to leave it after all these years, with your tail between your legs.

Come back when you've read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine at least once... I've read it twice already.

ps. I've reported your post but I guess it won't matter because I quoted you now.

Yeah? Well come back when you’ve read [book that agrees with me] at least three dozen times and THEN we can engage in a measuring contest of who knows more about Israel/palestine while ignoring everything going on in the current era.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Well aware of the dictionary meaning.

ah so the meaning is dependent on who is saying it
because she wears a hijab she can't say the word

 

[Crankyhawk]

So it means to start acting out violently. Typical.

so you think oppressed people should do nothing but submit and not resist then
should I mark you down as pro ICE deportations then?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Is each and every call for revolution necessarily a call to violence?

Its a call for change, though most would say that dramatic political change from a state of oppression does need some violence

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

ah so the meaning is dependent on who is saying it
because she wears a hijab she can't say the word

Just regarding the bolded bit. Of course context matters. It always has and always will.

 

[Gethelred]

I suppose not. Somehow with these types I don’t think they’re channeling Ghandi though.

There's a marked difference between someone with aviators, a singlet tee and thongs on in Byron who smells aggressively of marijuana saying, "Globalise the Intifada!' - or a little girl saying it, when she's bilingual and mightn't even understand what the word means - and someone covering their face with an AK-47 saying the same thing while it's pointing at Israel. There's also the distinct difference between the word external to the Israel-Palestine conflict and what it means to that conflict: an intifada versus the Intifada.

There's also within western circles a kind of orientalist effect that islamic/semitic words/phrases has over us, an exotic interest that captures the mind. Frank Herbert used words like kwisatz haderach - taken from hebrew, translated essentially to mean the Great Leap - and jihad quite deliberately, to evoke this effect in our minds. A jihad is much more terrifying than a crusade is despite the words meaning essentially the same thing.

I've said this before, but I don't know the answer. What I do know is that allowing the shooters to genuinely alter how Australians choose to live their lives is precisely what they wanted - up to and including the expression of political opinions worldwide, of which the use of the word Intifada is included - and **** them if I'm going to give what they wanted to them.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I think it’s pretty obvious that this “intifada” carry on is a call to violence.

Has the state of Israel renounced the use of armed force has it? Funny, I would have thought that was bigger news than it clearly was.

 

[Chief]

“There is only one solution - Intifada revolution”

What was my comment?

“ Can’t believe this garbage happened on our streets”

I stand by that.

Let's look again at what you've been told to get upset about:

 

[ElectricG]

I've said this before, but I don't know the answer. What I do know is that allowing the shooters to genuinely alter how Australians choose to live their lives is precisely what they wanted - up to and including the expression of political opinions worldwide, of which the use of the word Intifada is included - and **** them if I'm going to give what they wanted to them.

I’ve said it in this thread before, and naturally it wasn’t received well. I’ve always thought this was the wrong take. This “unity” that supposedly upsets terrorists so much only amounts to shackling ourselves further. It basically means watch your language, be permanently on egg shells.

I do want to be divided; I want to divide extremists out of our society permanently. You know what I bet terrorists hate more than seeing people carrying on as normal on the beaches of Bondi after they’ve gunned down a ****load of people? Being deported and imprisoned.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Retrofitting a definition to engineer a result. I'd barely heard the word infintada used in any context by anyone before Bondi now it's seemingly public enemy number 1 and banning it's use is absolutely essential.

Up there with Cultural Marxist.

I just turned 60, tertiary educated, have plenty of lifelong friends who are academics, and I have yet to meet a single cultural Marxist. In fact I don’t know of a single academic anywhere who self-identifies as a cultural Marxist.

And yet apparently they are whiteanting western civilisation from inside our tertiary institutions as we speak. Probably didn’t even take a day off for Christmas.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I’ve said it in this thread before, and naturally it wasn’t received well. I’ve always thought this was the wrong take. This “unity” that supposedly upsets terrorists so much only amounts to shackling ourselves further. It basically means watch your language, be permanently on egg shells.

I do want to be divided; I want to divide extremists out of our society permanently. You know what I bet terrorists hate more than seeing people carrying on as normal on the beaches of Bondi after they’ve gunned down a ****load of people? Being deported and imprisoned.

On terrorist was killed, and the other is imprisoned.

But that's not good enough, you now want to ban words and phrases.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Just regarding the bolded bit. Of course context matters. It always has and always will.

so just because she is saying she wants change against a status quo that you like, its a bad thing?

and if the context boils down to characteristics of the individual, that to me would seem to be a way to justify racism

(and I say this as an unapologetic systemic racist)

 

[Gethelred]

I’ve said it in this thread before, and naturally it wasn’t received well. I’ve always thought this was the wrong take. This “unity” that supposedly upsets terrorists so much only amounts to shackling ourselves further. It basically means watch your language, be permanently on egg shells.

I do want to be divided; I want to divide extremists out of our society permanently. You know what I bet terrorists hate more than seeing people carrying on as normal on the beaches of Bondi after they’ve gunned down a ****load of people? Being deported and imprisoned.

This implies that you cannot do both, have rules around conduct that marks you as other and thus renders your position in this society as untenable. You can - and we absolutely have - done both; you yourself referred to the SA fascist deported with his family when you made this statement earlier.

We are capable of appealing to unity, demonstrating our support and banding together, and deporting people who are potentially violent. Speech has never been fully free in Australia.

I'm not comfortable with sending someone to prison for language. I am completely comfortable with deporting them for it.