Mega Thread Brett Ratten

[The Coach]

1982 Grand Final.

Boom Boom

Aph please note that I chose the tasteful pic

 

[The Coach]

Boom Boom

Aph please note that I chose the tasteful pic

Just in case you wanted to see it again Doormat

(really only wanted to see if you can quote a pic)

 

[Silvagnis]

The waiting game Robert Walls

In a season that promised plenty for Carlton, things are turning sour. The Blues may well miss the finals. If they do, it should not be viewed as a disaster but as a setback. The hierarchy should look for reasons, not scapegoats. Big-picture thinking has served Geelong and Collingwood well and it is hoped Carlton follows the same path.

The waiting game Robert Walls

Carlton showing patience is less likely than Milne asking for permission.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I have this effect on blondes you see. Juts keep your hands off the headband.

 

[Big Red is back]

The waiting game Robert Walls

The waiting game Robert Walls

Carlton showing patience is less likely than Milne asking for permission.

Difference is anyone who watches carlton closely week in week can see we completely lack structure, rarely fight back when behind and realise our coach is c grade on a good day.

The reality is last year we get excited because we finished 5th but in the end we didn't beat a top 4 side and only beat a very ordinary essendon side in a final.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Difference is anyone who watches carlton closely week in week can see we completely lack structure, rarely fight back when behind and realise our coach is c grade on a good day.

The reality is last year we get excited because we finished 5th but in the end we didn't beat a top 4 side and only beat a very ordinary essendon side in a final.

Still spouting that hate I see. New site format, same old shite.

 

[40yearBLUE]

The waiting game Robert Walls

The waiting game Robert Walls

Carlton showing patience is less likely than Milne asking for permission.

As Walls points out in the article, the "old" Carlton in the system the way it was (VFL) had no patience. I think you will find the "new" Carlton in this new paradigm fully understands what it takes now to win a flag and there wont be any movement on Ratts until late next season, when I expect, he will get another contract extension.

 

[Claypigeon]

As Walls points out in the article, the "old" Carlton in the system the way it was (VFL) had no patience. I think you will find the "new" Carlton in this new paradigm fully understands what it takes now to win a flag and there wont be any movement on Ratts until late next season, when I expect, he will get another contract extension.

Just need to look at the teams that showed patience in their coaches versus the teams that chop and change at the whims of impatient fans. ..

In round 3 we were on top of the world; a few rounds later we were looking down the barrel of top spot; then the horror month started; and now only a month after a run of poor form and shocking injuries the impatience of some is shining through. ..

Premierships are not won in June and we're still a youthful side. .. Just because people got puffed up on the possibilities this year and then deflated by the outcomes they want to pass on that hurt. ..

Ratten bleeds Carlton, he would be hurting and it is time the boys stood up for him. .. Given the injuries that might not be enough to win ATM but it will show we have heart for the contest and can turn things around once the personnel get back. ..

 

[Madblue]

Still spouting that hate I see. New site format, same old shite.

Same could be said about you

 

[40yearBLUE]

Same could be said about you

Is that you Red? Show me a post, just one tiny snippet from a post where I have ever posted anything hateful about the club....just one and I will join the Madbluebigred fan club. You wont find one because they dont happen. About the only time I have ever posted anything negative was during the booze cruise disgrace about the culture of boozing we and other clubs have, and I have called Fevola a disgrace. Thats it. But I have never, ever criticised a player, coach or administrator on here for the performance of their actual jobs. I, and you as a you most clearly demonstrate on a regular basis are not "qualified" to do so.

New site same ol Shite. How do I get that as my sig.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Just need to look at the teams that showed patience in their coaches versus the teams that chop and change at the whims of impatient fans. ..

Excellent point. Just look at the Tigers and Demons for your proof. And before all the Hardwick admirers jump in, Frawley gave them an initial boost.....to 9th from last, Wallets gave them an initial boost.....to 9th from last and now Hardass......notice any pattern here?

If you want to emulate success you follow on the path taken by successful organisations, if you want to emulate failure do as clubs that have clearly and continually fail do.

 

[Silvagnis]

As Walls points out in the article, the "old" Carlton in the system the way it was (VFL) had no patience. I think you will find the "new" Carlton in this new paradigm fully understands what it takes now to win a flag and there wont be any movement on Ratts until late next season, when I expect, he will get another contract extension.

One Carlton supporter claims that the final year of Ratten's current contract is an option. Presumably based on how we go and where we finish this year. The club isn't run by fools like the general public believes.

 

[40yearBLUE]

One Carlton supporter claims that the final year of Ratten's current contract is an option. Presumably based on how we go and where we finish this year. The club isn't run by fools like the general public believes.

That would be fair enough. I have no problem with all payments and contracts being performance based. I would also say that performance has many measures, and ladder finish, win/loss and flags are not the only criteria in any one year. I would rather win 3 flags starting next year than win this years and drop away again. But I have no doubt though, that option or not, he will get an extension.

 

[Big Sim]

The interesting comparison for mine was Ratts vs Bomber Thompson. The Cats held their nerve after their season from hell of 2006 and the rest is history.

A bad run of form and injury like this does force the club, coaches and players into the hall of mirrors to have a good hard look at itself. It also shows who is up to a challenge and who isn't irrespective of talent and profile, allowing a decent list assessment. There, I've found some positives. And reason for optimism. My day is back on track.

 

[Madblue]

Is that you Red? Show me a post, just one tiny snippet from a post where I have ever posted anything hateful about the club....just one and I will join the Madbluebigred fan club. You wont find one because they dont happen. About the only time I have ever posted anything negative was during the booze cruise disgrace about the culture of boozing we and other clubs have, and I have called Fevola a disgrace. Thats it. But I have never, ever criticised a player, coach or administrator on here for the performance of their actual jobs. I, and you as a you most clearly demonstrate on a regular basis are not "qualified" to do so.

New site same ol Shite. How do I get that as my sig.

As i said same ol shite from you too. Continually bagging people for having a different opinion to you !

 

[Moody Blue]

They could see what was about to happen? They got flogged by 100 points twice and by 10 goals 3 times more and finished tenth after making the finals under Bomber for the past 3 seasons and as high as 4th in his first iianm. But they could see?

But actually you make my argument for me. They could see past the poor season that they were all progressing well and that a flag would ensue if they all stuck phat with each other. That takes a strong board and a lot of g&d.

Not unlike I would counter, the attitudes we are fostering. Ratts has a new contract, and Sticks and Swann have every intention of honouring it, even if we regress (in a similar way to Geelong in 06) before taking the final step. I dont think we will regress, I think our form is terrible and our injuries are debilitating but I think we can turn it all around and still make a genuine run at the flag this year.

I am heartened by the way Sticks slapped Eddie down and reiterated our resolve in the direction the club is headed.

Yeah I'm sure Eddie was crushed by that retort from Sticks. As a previous poster quite correctly stated, the comparison of the lists is chalk and cheese. If you want to sit here and delude each other by only expressing positive things then we will become like Melbourne.You would think they won the grand final the way they carried on. Our structure is fundamentally flawed. Our backline is ordinary at best. Our mids are quality but lazy and quite content to sit back and let others do the hard work which means putting on pressure,manning up running hard BOTH ways and blocking. Where is the blocking? That game against GWS where our mids were slaughtered for 3 quarters was a disgrace. Our forward line...well I have seen better in Metro Comps. Ratten is not interested in full forwards because he is from the era when the Blues had a plethora of brilliant mids to kick the goals, but we also had very good CH Forwards which we no longer have and desperately need. We have twenty mid type players on our list who will fill gaps for one or two weeks then get dropped as they cannot maintain the standard. Richmond got Riewoldt and built their mids and spine and now they are beginning to show the results. Carlton on the other hand is focused on part players. Ratten has a huge say in these structural issues and he needs to take responsibility. The injury argument does not hold water as West Coast and Collingwood have been crippled with injuries and they have continued to play at a high standard and win. Waite seems to get injured tying up his bootlaces.Murphy huge loss and Carazzo who is probably the most under rated stopper in the competition and he hurts teams when going forward.
Our draw for the next few weeks:Geelong,W/Coast(away)/Bye/Haw/Coll.
Based on the way we are playing you can pencil in four losses. We still have Essendon/Sydney/Richmond/St.Kilda waiting in the wings. If we make the finals it will be a good effort but I just don't believe we have the weapons to mix it with the top 6 based on the current structure.

 

[timbertron]

The Walls article is a nice piece but it forgets to mention that Malthouse coached the Pies to 4 GF's. After 5 years the Pies had played in 2 GF's and lost one by only 8 or so points. And Walls is only looking historically, not at what Ratts is doing in game and how he deals with adjustments etc. You can have patience but there is no point being patient with a guy who isnt getting the best out of the list he has just on the off chance he might get it right eventually. We shouldn't sack Rattan this season but he should be judged after the season and IMO injuries should not come into it. If we miss the 8 but have put in consistent effort each week then he should stay. But currently we are lazy and soft, both physically and mentally. If that remains the same for the rest of the year then they have to look for a better coach....no doubt. The Tigers hung on to Frawley and Wallace for 5 years each and they went nowhere. Each case on its merits!

 

[40yearBLUE]

We shouldn't sack Rattan this season but he should be judged after the season and IMO injuries should not come into it.

Do people even think before they write.

Imagine you are a salesman and there are 40 products in your range and you are set a target but then told you are not going to be allowed to sell the 10 best selling lines, you have to hit your target without them or sack you if you cant.

Or you are a surgeon and told you will be sacked if another patient dies, no matter what he dies of even if unrelated to the surgury you performed oh and by the way, you cant use the 10 most used surgery implements including scalpels and tweezers, they are for sissies.

What next, he has to coach blindfolded?

It just keeps getting worse. Where do we find them?

 

[The Flying Doormat]

The interesting comparison for mine was Ratts vs Bomber Thompson. The Cats held their nerve after their season from hell of 2006 and the rest is history.

A bad run of form and injury like this does force the club, coaches and players into the hall of mirrors to have a good hard look at itself. It also shows who is up to a challenge and who isn't irrespective of talent and profile, allowing a decent list assessment. There, I've found some positives. And reason for optimism. My day is back on track.

Optimism is a good thing. Blind faith not. I posted elsewhere that Bomber was an exception and not the rule - Daniher at Melbourne, Eade at Sydney and Choco at Port Adelaide (yea he won a flag but left the club a mess) counter that theory. In fact you can argue that after 43 years eventually someone was going to coach Geelong to a flag and with all that talent on the park it would take a fair effort to beat them. Scott proved that last year. If you're happy to wait long enough, Ratten may well win one for the Blues, but then again, 5 more years may go by and another rebuild required.
Question is how patient is the Blue Army ?

 

[Peete]

Do people even think before they write. ....

All goodpoints you make 40yr - save for this save for this...Every promise Ratts has made this year has been broken....

specifically - his boasting about Carlton 'depth' - no depth. His goal of being Top4 - ridiculous and always was as soon as Essendon pantzed us. His belief in certain players - eg Gibbs was suppossed to blow the competition away this year wasn't he?

A bad injury list is probably a good thing for us - brings us back to where we really are as a team - and also has given opportunity to prove just how poor some of teh players suppossed to fill for injuries really are..
Personally I am excited about the future for Carlton - I think thatRatten has finally realised thatteh honeymoon period is over - and maybe a lot of the players have as well.

 

[Blue since 72]

The injury argument does not hold water as West Coast and Collingwood have been crippled with injuries and they have continued to play at a high standard and win.

The injury argument absolutely holds water. The Eagles have lost just 3 key players to long term injury so far this year and really only 2 of those would be considered keys (Kennedy and Lecras), and all from the same part of the ground. We have lost key players for long periods from all 3 areas. The Eagles midfield and backline has been pretty much intact all season. Plus they were smashed by the Bombers and beaten by the Lions.

They are not some super team that has had to deal with a massive call on their depth and shone through.

And who at Collingwood apart from Ball and Krakouer has been out with a long term injury that are a key part of the line-up?

 

[Big Red is back]

The injury argument absolutely holds water. The Eagles have lost just 3 key players to long term injury so far this year and really only 2 of those would be considered keys (Kennedy and Lecras), and all from the same part of the ground. We have lost key players for long periods from all 3 areas. The Eagles midfield and backline has been pretty much intact all season. Plus they were smashed by the Bombers and beaten by the Lions.

They are not some super team that has had to deal with a massive call on their depth and shone through.

And who at Collingwood apart from Ball and Krakouer has been out with a long term injury that are a key part of the line-up?



Josh hill has replaced Lecras seemlessly and lead the teams goal scoring and Darling has come out of the Kennedy shadow and the greater opportunity

Guys we were near full strength vs Essendon and also near full strength vs the saints. Don't forget the saints were missing fisher and McEvoy. Also against the crows the writing was well and truly on the wall before Murphy got injured that we wer going to get creamed.

The pies injury list is gigantic as has the eagles at times. Lets not forget the hawks last year who somehow nearly made the GF whilst being devasted by injuries.

The reality is of course injuries are an excuse but sides with great strucutures and gameplans can cover these issues better than us.

 

[Blue since 72]

All goodpoints you make 40yr - save for this save for this...Every promise Ratts has made this year has been broken....

specifically - his boasting about Carlton 'depth' - no depth. His goal of being Top4 - ridiculous and always was as soon as Essendon pantzed us. His belief in certain players - eg Gibbs was suppossed to blow the competition away this year wasn't he?

A bad injury list is probably a good thing for us - brings us back to where we really are as a team - and also has given opportunity to prove just how poor some of teh players suppossed to fill for injuries really are..
Personally I am excited about the future for Carlton - I think thatRatten has finally realised thatteh honeymoon period is over - and maybe a lot of the players have as well.

Once again, when our starting 22 are all ready to play we have good depth but there is not a team in the league that could handle the injuries we've had to key players and still be coasting along winning all their games.

 

[Big Red is back]

The Walls article is a nice piece but it forgets to mention that Malthouse coached the Pies to 4 GF's. After 5 years the Pies had played in 2 GF's and lost one by only 8 or so points. And Walls is only looking historically, not at what Ratts is doing in game and how he deals with adjustments etc. You can have patience but there is no point being patient with a guy who isnt getting the best out of the list he has just on the off chance he might get it right eventually. We shouldn't sack Rattan this season but he should be judged after the season and IMO injuries should not come into it. If we miss the 8 but have put in consistent effort each week then he should stay. But currently we are lazy and soft, both physically and mentally. If that remains the same for the rest of the year then they have to look for a better coach....no doubt. The Tigers hung on to Frawley and Wallace for 5 years each and they went nowhere. Each case on its merits!

It was a pathetic article it ignored that the pies went from bottom to Grand Finals in a short period of time and if you look at those collingwood sides on paper they were terrible.

 

[Big Red is back]

This is why you want Mick Malthouse look at these two sides which made GF and tell me a great coach doesn't make a difference.

B: 26 Ben Johnson 14 Shane Wakelin 8 James Clement
HB: 39 Matthew Lokan 35 Simon Prestigiacomo 13 Richard Cole
C: 6 Brodie Holland 5 Nathan Buckley (c) 37 Ryan Lonie
HF: 11 Shane O'Bree 34 Jason Cloke 17 Scott Burns
F: 28 Ben Kinnear 38 Tristen Walker 20 Chris Tarrant
Foll: 25 Josh Fraser 2 Shane Woewodin 18 Paul Licuria
Int: 4 Alan Didak 29 Heath Scotland 22 Rhyce Shaw
1 Leon Davis
Coach:
Michael Malthouse


Collingwood (this side is actually a tad better)
B: 26 Ben Johnson 14 Shane Wakelin 8 James Clement
HB: 15 Carl Steinfort 35 Simon Prestigiacomo 37 Ryan Lonie
C: 11 Shane O'Bree 5 Nathan Buckley (c) 9 Glenn Freeborn
HF: 1 Leon Davis 23 Anthony Rocca 19 Nick Davis
F: 10 Rupert Betheras 20 Chris Tarrant 25 Josh Fraser
Foll: 12 Steven McKee 17 Scott Burns 18 Paul Licuria
Int: 24 Tarkyn Lockyer 29 Heath Scotland 7 Jarrod Molloy
4 Alan Didak
Coach: Michael Malthouse