Brian Waldron: "Saints lack hardness"

[sauce_head]

The Carlisle / Marc Murphy sledge? Yes we did sit on our hands. No comment was made until Jarryn Geary (FFS) came out several days later on the Tuesday.

By then a story which should have been about Murphy abusing an injured player (in one of the biggest dog acts I have seen on a football field) had become all about poor Murphs hurt feelings. It had played of every national football show and there were several op eds on St.Kilda culture. Suddenly we are making an apology and the story is again about us.

That is the definition of sitting on your hands and is actually a great example of what I am talking about

Exactly. If you have a well used bike at home you don’t go throwing stones at people who can’t use snap chat properly.

 

[George]

Comes down to where we set the bar for a successful administrations doesn't it?

Yes we are currently better then we were in the 80s when we nearly folded and couldn't pay wages.
Yes we are better than the Thomas / Butters era where they both let internal personal issues impact an entire club.
Yes we are better than the Lyon micro manage era.

That overall means the club is run better than ever I agree. However, is it actually an achievement to say that St.Kilda is now an organisation that is run competently?

Does this mean the current administration stacks up favourably against how any organisation of this size and profile (with all of the additional AFL safety nets) should be run?
Does this mean that we accept current leadership even if it appears substandard when compared with more successfully run AFL teams?

I think we agree that the club has come a long way, and is now run competently. Is that something to be celebrated? Personally I set that at the bare minimum for a pass mark. Absolutely depends on where we set the bar for success.

In what way are clubs run better than we are? What do you see in other clubs that you don't see in ours?

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

In what way are clubs run better than we are? What do you see in other clubs that you don't see in ours?

Aside from blank ink?

Seriously though, are you really going to say we are better run than any AFL team outside GC and Brisbane? We are broadly comparable with North, Carlton, Dogs and maybe Essendon (not folding was probably an achievement we couldn't manage though). I realise we are coming off a low base, but my guess is we would easily be in the bottom half dozen for:

Profit / loss
Membership
Major sponsorship
Stadium deals
Leadership in time of scandal
Training facilities
Staff numbers in the football department

Not saying the current administration isn't competent or much better than anything we have previously had. Yes we are improving. But realistically, we don't really compare against most clubs in most areas that an administration can control

 

[VDS66]

Lol. This guy has as much cred as Hird giving us advice about supplements.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Aside from blank ink?

Seriously though, are you really going to say we are better run than any AFL team outside GC and Brisbane? We are broadly comparable with North, Carlton, Dogs and maybe Essendon (not folding was probably an achievement we couldn't manage though). I realise we are coming off a low base, but my guess is we would easily be in the bottom half dozen for:

Profit / loss
Membership
Major sponsorship
Stadium deals
Leadership in time of scandal
Training facilities
Staff numbers in the football department

Not saying the current administration isn't competent or much better than anything we have previously had. Yes we are improving. But realistically, we don't really compare against most clubs in most areas that an administration can control

you are actually wrong on most of those ...
- our P&L is pretty good these days but its compairing having $10m and a loss of $2m or having $20m and a loss of $8m .. our club is pretty well placed
- Membership we have one of the best member retention numbers in the comp yes we dont have 50k but we got a record number for the second year in a row and we are seeing them stay members now.
- Major Sponsorship yep ill give you that we dont have a car company or and airline jumping on
- stadium is work in progress
- leadership is seeing us having less exposure to scandals
- Training facilities is work in progress
- Staff we have about the same as other clubs

 

[VDS66]

Comes down to where we set the bar for a successful administrations doesn't it?

Yes we are currently better then we were in the 80s when we nearly folded and couldn't pay wages.
Yes we are better than the Thomas / Butters era where they both let internal personal issues impact an entire club.
Yes we are better than the Lyon micro manage era.

That overall means the club is run better than ever I agree. However, is it actually an achievement to say that St.Kilda is now an organisation that is run competently?

Does this mean the current administration stacks up favourably against how any organisation of this size and profile (with all of the additional AFL safety nets) should be run?
Does this mean that we accept current leadership even if it appears substandard when compared with more successfully run AFL teams?

I think we agree that the club has come a long way, and is now run competently. Is that something to be celebrated? Personally I set that at the bare minimum for a pass mark. Absolutely depends on where we set the bar for success.

The club has started again from scratch. For the first time I can remember, it has actually laid the solid foundations to build sustainable success and viability... and was coming from a long way back.

So given the appointments and commitment to build a successful list, I'd say the bar has been set quite high.

Still a lot of work to be done, but we are heading the right way both on and off the field.

 

[Joffaboy]

Profit / loss - a profit means nothing. It is an accounting concept. SoCF is the kicker
Membership - highest membership ever for the Saints, in an era where we haven't played finals in 6 years.

Major sponsorship - a hard sell when you get one Friday game a year, play in Adelaide twice a year and get 25 Sunday twilight games
Stadium deals - how is this the current admins fault? Currently negotiating a better deal.
Leadership in time of scandal - what scandal has this admin had? Carlisles toot to the snoot. Generally handled well. What else?
Training facilities - Moorabbin? Started by this admin
Staff numbers in the football department - how is this a measure?

To think every club is on a level playing field to measure is ludicrious.

To blame most of the above on the current admin defies logic.

 

[George]

Aside from blank ink?

Seriously though, are you really going to say we are better run than any AFL team outside GC and Brisbane? We are broadly comparable with North, Carlton, Dogs and maybe Essendon (not folding was probably an achievement we couldn't manage though). I realise we are coming off a low base, but my guess is we would easily be in the bottom half dozen for:

Profit / loss
Membership
Major sponsorship
Stadium deals
Leadership in time of scandal
Training facilities
Staff numbers in the football department

Not saying the current administration isn't competent or much better than anything we have previously had. Yes we are improving. But realistically, we don't really compare against most clubs in most areas that an administration can control

Alot of what you mention is before the current administrations time though. Etihad deal has been poor for a very long time, but will be improving now. Leadership in time of scandal now is strong. First time in club history this year that we filled all sponsorship openings. Membership the highest it's been in the club's history.

Obviously not comparable to other clubs but you need to start somewhere. And a lot of our profit/loss numbers come from the aforementioned deals we have with stadiums. A game at the MCG nets us nearly 8 times as much in revenue as a game at Etihad. It's partly the AFL's fault, if they want equality across the competition then let all Victorian clubs play the same amount of games at Etihad and at the MCG. They stuff the pockets of Collingwood and Hawthorn year after year, it's got nothing to do with administration but more to do with how the AFL run the game.

More to the point of MCG revenue, part of the reason we still want to play games in NZ is that it has earned us nearly four times as much revenue playing one game in NZ as opposed to Etihad. The more games away from Etihad the better until a new deal gets done.

There's limitations to how much is in our control. We can hold talks with the AFL all we want but it is up to them to make it a fairer competition. Comparing clubs like St.Kilda, North and the Bulldogs to the likes of Collingwood and Hawthorn is ridiculous for the simple fact it's unfair to even begin with.

 

[sunny3193]

Comes down to where we set the bar for a successful administrations doesn't it?

Yes we are currently better then we were in the 80s when we nearly folded and couldn't pay wages.
Yes we are better than the Thomas / Butters era where they both let internal personal issues impact an entire club.
Yes we are better than the Lyon micro manage era.

That overall means the club is run better than ever I agree. However, is it actually an achievement to say that St.Kilda is now an organisation that is run competently?

Does this mean the current administration stacks up favourably against how any organisation of this size and profile (with all of the additional AFL safety nets) should be run?
Does this mean that we accept current leadership even if it appears substandard when compared with more successfully run AFL teams?

I think we agree that the club has come a long way, and is now run competently. Is that something to be celebrated? Personally I set that at the bare minimum for a pass mark. Absolutely depends on where we set the bar for success.

I don’t mind the president taking a low profile but saying that I’m reminded of a quote attributed to Teddy Roosevelt: “Best to speak softly but carry a big stick”.

I’d like to see that stick occasionally.

 

[RoundCubic]

really good post.

the other problem it created is that people were then confused as to what ameet's role was. for example he was always the person doing the interviews during trade week to explain what the club was doing. yes he sat on the list management committee, yes he was the COO and was basically in charge of the football dept (along with a bunch of other depts). but he was NOT the list manager. he merely was the spokes person.

but you read the commentary around his departure and 90% of people thought he was the list manager.

as you said, i doubt many could name 1 other COO from another club.

agree on our president, he's not a vocal one. but that's not necessarily a bad thing if he can put in the right people in the right role and steer the ship in the right direction at a very high level.

i do think you are right about the scandals/fixture etc. we are just far too easily pushed around as a club. the AFLW shit that happened was a good example of it. the marque game another. hell even the fixture last year. compare our fixture over the last 10 years to say collingwoods or WCE

Add the aboriginal development nt zones

 

[Ads734]

It will be interesting to see if Bains and co can capitalise on the WB premiership to push ahead and become a big club

 

[Flandersss]

Nah the coke incident

Say hi JC.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I don’t mind the president taking a low profile but saying that I’m reminded of a quote attributed to Teddy Roosevelt: “Best to speak softly but carry a big stick”.

I’d like to see that stick occasionally.

A lot of our problems started with our boys showing their sticks, even though they weren't all big ones

 

[Saint Watto]

Such rubbish.

Club in the best position off field that it has been in in decades.

Great post George....you absolutely nailed it IMHO.

 

[plugger66]

Maybe we should be hard by cheating the salary cap and have our next premiership taken off us.

That shows hardness hey Briza?

Is that what he is saying. He has an opinion. I heard the whole conversation and he had good points and some not so good points. I think saying Bains should go now is a good point from the outside but hopefully the club know what they are doing. Anyway I think you will find Waldron had newscorp on his side until he was caught then they dumped him. Newscorp were pathetic and he copped more than he should have and have taken better than I would have.

What I find funny is a couple on here having a go at Waldron for having a negative opinion about the club, not that negative mind you, but after some losses then same people want the whole coaching panel sacked. They are allowed there say but how dare Waldron.

 

[The Punter]

What I find funny is a couple on here having a go at Waldron for having a negative opinion about the club, not that negative mind you,

Yes?

but after some losses then same people want the whole coaching panel sacked. They are allowed there say but how dare Waldron.

Oh, good. You didn't mean me. Excellent.

 

[plugger66]

Yes?



Oh, good. You didn't mean me. Excellent.

No I didn't mean you because I didn't read you on this thread or remember you wanting the whole coaching panel sacked but if the shoe fits.

 

[Saint Watto]

The Carlisle / Marc Murphy sledge? Yes we did sit on our hands. No comment was made until Jarryn Geary (FFS) came out several days later on the Tuesday.

IMHO this incident was not handled well.

The club should have quickly figured out what to say publically and have got it out there quickly and closed the whole thing down.

Prez or Matt should have come out with a strong statement very early on.

Comments from those at the top in the club came out in dribs and drabs.

I couldn't believe what Richo came out with on the Monday night..."I don't think we did that properly"....or words to that effect with regard to the on field sledging.

I thought "you'll get burnt for saying that" and the next day the media circus had a field day with his comment.

 

[The Punter]

No I didn't mean you because I didn't read you on this thread or remember you wanting the whole coaching panel sacked but if the shoe fits.

Don't mind me. I'm in a mood.

 

[Saint Watto]

In what way are clubs run better than we are? What do you see in other clubs that you don't see in ours?

Agree there George.........I'd be very surprised if the club doesn't measure itself against what the club believes is the benchmark club/s.

There would just be so many variables when benchmarking ourselves.

 

[FQFjt]

IMHO this incident was not handled well.

The club should have quickly figured out what to say publically and have got it out there quickly and closed the whole thing down.

Prez or Matt should have come out with a strong statement very early on.

Comments from those at the top in the club came out in dribs and drabs.

I couldn't believe what Richo came out with on the Monday night..."I don't think we did that properly"....or words to that effect with regard to the on field sledging.

I thought "you'll get burnt for saying that" and the next day the media circus had a field day with his comment.

More generally, Richo could do with some more media training. It is possible to be less cliched without being outrageous, but Richo is no where near striking this balance. This is actually important, not only because it's good for the public face of the club to be engaging/interesting/attractive, but because it means we get more exposure which means more sponsorship which is the holy grail. Richo had a great gig on 360 this year, but from Fox's perspective, I wouldn't be inviting him back next year.

 

[Saintanne]

Slow news day.....
Anyone moving clubs has I P. impossible to unknow what you know.

Ameet is not involved in drafting so what exactly is he going to be passing on to the dogs. Plus Saints early picks are before the dogs. Maybe later picks are affected, but as a lawyer he would surely understand restrictions.

Ameet is going places within the AFL, won’t be at the dogs forever either. Hopefully he’ll maintain a soft spot for the Saints.

Absolutely no need to burn bridges if both Saints and Dogs believe there’s no conflict of interest. It’s about expedience , not about being ruthless or soft.

 

[gringo2011]

We seem to have a bit of a vision these days which hasn't always been the case. To me, we need to clear debt and keep a focus on on field success. The last crew left us in a huge hole with no money, a shit home ground that looks like the Seaford local team should own it not a pro team in the AFL, and our list was in tatters from years of poor recruiting and drafting and very few administrators to build a club around.

I hope Finnis stays and finishes the rebuild, we seem to have a focus on making it a happy drama field playing roster with lots of friends recruited in like Steele and austin and Billings and Sincs. There don't seem be any real reprobates in the team and we seem to be keeping hold of players. That said there aren't many apart from Steven, Gresham and Billings that would have strong appeal for other teams.

Not too worried about how things are running but also get the point from Wally that once you are leaving you might as well **** off, but then it does leave us with an extra pair of hands to work through the draft period at a club that is pretty light on compared to bigger clubs.

 

[Joffaboy]

Is that what he is saying. He has an opinion. I heard the whole conversation and he had good points and some not so good points. I think saying Bains should go now is a good point from the outside but hopefully the club know what they are doing. Anyway I think you will find Waldron had newscorp on his side until he was caught then they dumped him. Newscorp were pathetic and he copped more than he should have and have taken better than I would have.

What I find funny is a couple on here having a go at Waldron for having a negative opinion about the club, not that negative mind you, but after some losses then same people want the whole coaching panel sacked. They are allowed there say but how dare Waldron.

So what? If a known cheater puts his head above the parapet and critisises the admin of a club, I maintain the right to point out his lack of credibility when it comes to the subject.

Dont know what concern it is of yours [emoji19]

 

[plugger66]

So what? If a known cheater puts his head above the parapet and critisises the admin of a club, I maintain the right to point out his lack of credibility when it comes to the subject.

Dont know what concern it is of yours [emoji19]

Concern of mine? What does that even mean? He can have an opinion even if he cheated. It was irrelevant what you said. It makes you sound like a little kid. He had an opinion. Hardly a criticism. If you can explain how him cheating means he cant understand why Bains is staying then go right ahead. Luckily you aren't on radio. You cant even stand a comment as an unknown on fan forum. By the way I actually didn't even criticize you. I asked one simple question. God help the children.