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Brian Wilson

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lioness

lioness

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I know we have had the Beatles v Beach Boys debates and all kinds of similar wars lately............this is not one of those threads.

I was just listening to (surprise, surprise) THE BEACH BOYS, and it got me thinking.............I was wondering how people rate the music of Brian Wilson.......NOT compared to any other group, but how it stacks up by itself. Hoping to get some feedback, even if you have barely heard a Beach Boys song, feel free to say so. :)

OK here's my opinion..............a lot of Brian's early stuff (especially the 'hits') IS very light-weight stuff lyrically, and most of it is 'themed' towards the California lifestyle, which bores some, and the arrangements are overlooked. The middle Wilson stuff is starting to get more complex, around 'Pet Sounds' and 'SMiLE' (which, I believe, is Brian Wilson's TRUE masterpiece, get a hold of the bootlegs u will not believe your ears - well of what I've heard of it, there are weeks worth of songs :()..............I put the BB music from 68-73 down to Carl Wilson more than Brian, so we move to later Brian..............1977. 'Love You' appears, all synthesisers and simplicity, and it's fantastic. Was he a genius? No. :) Just really really talented and probably not made for these times. :) Brian said once that the BB music celebrated the joy of life, in a real simple way. And that's why people love it so much. :)

Anyway...............anyone wanna offer their opinion? :) I'd like to hear it, like I said, no comparisons, just what you think of Brian alone.
 
He is over-rated by all these people who call him a 'genius'.

As much as he is a talented songwriter, and as much as Good Vibrations is a good song, he is no genius. The way he chops and changes in Good Vibrations doesn't spell genius to me - and that's his most well-known piece of work.
 

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Originally posted by bunsen burner
He is over-rated by all these people who call him a 'genius'.

As much as he is a talented songwriter, and as much as Good Vibrations is a good song, he is no genius. The way he chops and changes in Good Vibrations doesn't spell genius to me - and that's his most well-known piece of work.
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:eek: Here we go! Duck for cover!
 
A true test of an individuals ability in music craftsmanship, is listening to the back catalogue, the Beach Boys fail this test badly, a lot of their stuff is unlistenable, don't judge by the brief moments of inspiration, qualify an opinion by taking toll of the bulk of their material. When you do that the only viable judgment left is that Wilson and the Beach Boys were overrated
 
Originally posted by William Munny
A true test of an individuals ability in music craftsmanship, is listening to the back catalogue, the Beach Boys fail this test badly, a lot of their stuff is unlistenable, don't judge by the brief moments of inspiration, qualify an opinion by taking toll of the bulk of their material. When you do that the only viable judgment left is that Wilson and the Beach Boys were overrated
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Unlistenable? Which part? The really early stuff or the later stuff? Curious. :)
 
I'm with you on this one Lioness, if not a genius Brian Wilson comes very very close.

His arrangements, lyrics, harmonies etc are, at their very best simply brilliant. He could have received no greater compliment for his music than the beatles Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band - as Paul McCartney said it was Pet Sounds which raised the bar for the beatles. They had to respond with their own opus - hence Sgt Peppers.

As for his early stuff, I actually think its brilliant, totally encapsulated the west coast surf scene while Brian himself was unable to swim and hated the ocean!!

The song God only knows remains for me one of the most heartbreakingly beautiful lyrics in pop history.

How he ever managed to create anything with that pig of a father is beyond me. Thank god he did, the world is a richer place for it.
 

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Pet Sounds is a great Album personally I think it beats Sargeant Pepper's hands down.(oops there's a comparison)

Hey Lionness is Smile the album that he never released?

It's a shame that he's suffered from pshycological problems for so much of his life, he was definitely (to use that much abused word) a genius.I was interested to read about Dennis Wilson & how when he diid he solo stuff he showed a creativity that no one really new that he possessed-he was perhaps the most talented of the lot of them.
 
Originally posted by DIPPER
Pet Sounds is a great Album personally I think it beats Sargeant Pepper's hands down.(oops there's a comparison)

Hey Lionness is Smile the album that he never released?

It's a shame that he's suffered from pshycological problems for so much of his life, he was definitely (to use that much abused word) a genius.I was interested to read about Dennis Wilson & how when he diid he solo stuff he showed a creativity that no one really new that he possessed-he was perhaps the most talented of the lot of them.
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Dipper - have you heard Dennis's solo album???? It's pretty amazing stuff, especially the opening track 'River Song', an awesome piece. :) I have a club on Yahoo for Dennis Wilson/Beach Boys fans........we have some rather popular Dennis people there, including author Jon Stebbins who pops up regularly to answer posts and chat and stuff. :) And Ed Roach who was a simple fan who became one of Denny's best friends (he is a mad man tho :p) so yeah. :)

And yes, SMiLE is the album that was never released. Most of the songs are simply fragments or unfinished, but there are maybe 20 finished tracks as well and from the portions I have managed to find so far, it's AWESOME stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by Dippers Donuts
I'm with you on this one Lioness, if not a genius Brian Wilson comes very very close.

His arrangements, lyrics, harmonies etc are, at their very best simply brilliant. He could have received no greater compliment for his music than the beatles Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band - as Paul McCartney said it was Pet Sounds which raised the bar for the beatles. They had to respond with their own opus - hence Sgt Peppers.

As for his early stuff, I actually think its brilliant, totally encapsulated the west coast surf scene while Brian himself was unable to swim and hated the ocean!!

The song God only knows remains for me one of the most heartbreakingly beautiful lyrics in pop history.

How he ever managed to create anything with that pig of a father is beyond me. Thank god he did, the world is a richer place for it.
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I am VERY pleased to hear that someone else appreciates the early stuff!!!!!!!!! :D Look past the simple lyrics and it's very rewarding. I LOVE all the surf and car stuff anyway. :)

Murry Wilson wasn't all bad. He DID love his boys, I mean, he gave up his business to sink all his money into the group.......... DD, have you ever heard his own song 'Two-Step Side Step'? I believe it was a minor hit in the 50s????? It was featured on the recent Beach Boys movie, great to hear it. It's got that trademark Wilson catchiness written all over it. There is also a song by the Sunrays, called 'Live for the Sun', which is a Murry Wilson-penned song. Anyway, his frustration with Brian I believe, is due to his own lost talent. He meant well but didn't really know how to support Brian. He did an AWFUL lot of damage and I am not excusing him because he did play a huge role in Brian's downfall, but yeah. There were good sides to him too.

Anyway I will shut up, for now at least. :D
 
Originally posted by bunsen burner
He is over-rated by all these people who call him a 'genius'.

As much as he is a talented songwriter, and as much as Good Vibrations is a good song, he is no genius. The way he chops and changes in Good Vibrations doesn't spell genius to me - and that's his most well-known piece of work.
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Good Vibrations is a brilliant piece, but I certainly don't rate it as Brian's best, by any means. I can think of a dozen songs I would put ahead of it..........but as you said bb, it's his best known piece of work and the one he is ultimately judged on. Sadly the best known isn't always the best, and it's certainly true in this case.


**** Note: I forgot to mention this before........Good Vibrations is the centrepiece of the unfinished SMiLE album. :)
 
Was Good Vibrations co produced by Phil Spector? It certainly had that "wall of sound" that Spector was famous for. Or perhaps Brian was just trying to outdo Spector?

Yeah I heard Murry Wilson's Two Step Side Step a while ago, a catchy hoedown style number.

Agree with the comments about Dennis, a helluva talent, sadly unrealised. Unfortunately the booze and the drugs (and an inexplicable anger at life) prevented him from fully realising his talents.

I heard a whisper that Smile will eventually be released? Do you know if this is true Lioness?
Imagine that - awesome.
 
Originally posted by Dippers Donuts
Was Good Vibrations co produced by Phil Spector? It certainly had that "wall of sound" that Spector was famous for. Or perhaps Brian was just trying to outdo Spector?

Yeah I heard Murry Wilson's Two Step Side Step a while ago, a catchy hoedown style number.

Agree with the comments about Dennis, a helluva talent, sadly unrealised. Unfortunately the booze and the drugs (and an inexplicable anger at life) prevented him from fully realising his talents.

I heard a whisper that Smile will eventually be released? Do you know if this is true Lioness?
Imagine that - awesome.
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Good Vibrations was a Brian Wilson production, nothing at all to do with Spector. It was Brian's 'pocket symphony' as he calls it. :D And a damn fine song.

I just grabbed some of my SMiLE music, helps me think. :D lol. There is about 25 minutes worth of music on Disc 2 of the 'Good Vibrations - 30 years of the Beach Boys' box set, and I have a few bootlegs and I also found a few snippets on a SMiLE site a while ago. :) I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SMiLE RELEASED FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!! Even as just a box set of all the pieces, it would blow a LOT of minds. :D Quite a few fans have put together THEIR interpretation of how the SMiLE album may have looked if released..........I have been working on mine for around a year, and I am STILL not right with the playlist. ONE song, 'Our Prayer' has an official spot, as Track 1, but the rest............HARD to put together!!!!!!!!!!! I believe that Van Dyke Parks (co-writer of the songs) is very keen for it to be released, it's all gonna come down to Brian.

With Dennis, I believe that there was no one to save him. I don't believe he was ready to die, as people say. Everyone was putting so much energy into saving Brian that Dennis kinda drifted away.........but then again, what else could they do I suppose. Denny is a VERY under-rated talent, but then again so is Carl Wilson. In the late 60s and early 70s, he did most of the production work, the 'Surf's Up' album for example is a brilliant showcase of Carl's talents. :) And the VOICE of an angel, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. :) (bit of a Carl fan, does it show? :))

I will ask around about the SMiLE stuff. :)
 

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I remember that hearing "Heroes & Villians" on the car radio during one of our infamous family cross-country car trips completely wiped me out! Wanted to hear it again and Dad searched the dial but nothing but :p Country & Western on the other stations LOL.
& I barrack for the dons so put that in your pipe & smoke it,baby;)


Also I am listening to an ancient tape of Smiley Smile now...is that this infamous Smile ?
 
Originally posted by NYMets
I remember that hearing "Heroes & Villians" on the car radio during one of our infamous family cross-country car trips completely wiped me out! Wanted to hear it again and Dad searched the dial but nothing but :p Country & Western on the other stations LOL.
& I barrack for the dons so put that in your pipe & smoke it,baby;)


Also I am listening to an ancient tape of Smiley Smile now...is that this infamous Smile ?
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Smiley Smile is a very watered-down version of some of the SMiLE stuff...........Good Vibrations, and 'Fall Breaks and Back To Winter' and 'With Me Tonight' and I believe, 'Little Pad' are taken straight out of the SMiLE tapes, the rest of the songs (including Heroes and Villains) are all re-recorded and are poorer versions. :)

The original version (which I haven't heard in full yet :() goes for around 11 minutes, it was Brian's intention to release it as a double-sided single, but was shot down by the rest of the group. But the song exists and I believe it's mind-blowing. :)

Another funny story related to H&V.........Brian and the Beach Boys actually took the single to an LA radio station, walked up to the DJ and said "Hi I'm Brian Wilson and this is the Beach Boys, this is our new single 'Heroes and Villains' and we'd like you to play it"..............The guy actually refused till his boss said ":eek: PLAY IT :eek:" lol love that story. :D
 
Was it H&V or Good VIbes which made Lennon go back to the drawing board when they were planning a new album after Revolver?

I don't know if you'd call this stuff "watered down"..."out to lunch" is more like it Let's put it this way ...Brian was definitely tripping when he did the :) :) that I have !! We were actually listening to Wild Honey.. i was mistaken just then...it's chaos here...and I can't lay my hands on :) :) but it has snatchs of songs about shaving your head & vegies & veers in & out of reality. The music is fluid like early Dead stuff.

there is the most magnificent old three masted ship out the window..like an old cutter...wow..(I love naval history) Sloop John B?? Very nice.
For some reason it reminds me of one of my favorite BB's discs -Holland.
 
Originally posted by NYMets
Was if H&V or Good VIbes which made Lennon go back to the drawing board when they were planning a new album after Revolver?

I don;t know if you's call this stuff "watered down"..."out to lunch" is more like it Let's put it this way ...Brian was definately tripping when he did the :) :) that I have !! We were actually listening to Wild Honey.. i was mistaken just then...it's chaos here...and I can't lay my hands on :) :) but it has snatchs of songs about shaving your head & vegies & veers in & out of reality. The music is fluid like early Dead stuff.

there is the most magnificent old three masted ship out the window..like an old cutter...wow..(I love naval history) Sloop John B?? Very nice.
For some reason it reminds me of one of my favorite BB's discs -Holland.
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HOLLAND!!!!!!!!!!

YES!!!!!!!!!! Top album. I very much enjoy the 'California Saga'........... Big Sur, The Beaks of Eagles, California...........a lovely piece indeed. :D 'Steamboat' is kinda trippy.........the standout track for me is 'Trader'...........divine. :D

"silken hair more silken hair fell on her face and no wind was blowing...........laughed so hard I blew my mind I blew my cool I blew myself over........." LOL you know, I can't remember the name of that song!!!!!!! :eek: It's from Smiley Smile though. lol

I believe it's Good Vibes that made Lennon freak. lol but don't quote me.

Wild Honey is a top album too. :D And the song!!!!!!!! My signature tune. :cool:
 
oh blast...my holland tape is stuffed...all twisted.

Have to get a cd or something ...went it to Fish Records thurs and wanted a CD to replace my raggedly old Laura Nyro and that was entertaining...blank looks...a little too obscure. Forgedaboudit. I'll take bardot thanx.

Coincidentally I am reading John Steinbeck's letters. Two of the BB's (not the Wilsons) which I met while working one summer in Cape Cod ( see thread on first jobs...this is all starting to gestalt) told me Steinbeck (travels with Charlie etc) inspired them to write that Big Sur segment.
 

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