Bruce Francis (Part3)

[andrewb]

It's pretty straight forward AT, nothing has changed.

There is evidence that TB4 was ordered by Charter.
There is some evidence that it was prepared by Alavi.
There is some evidence that it was provided to Dank.
There is some evidence that it made it to the club.
There is some evidence that it may have been used on players.

As you progress down that series of statements, the certainty of the statement decreases.

If you're willing to end careers because players unwittingly may have taken a substance that might be performance enhancing then you're not as intelligent nor as reasonable as you've portrayed yourself.

 

[Chameleon75]

Correct.
Players don't have to prove anything.
Onus is 100% on ASADA to prove that each and every one of the 34 players used TB4.

correct just like defendant's in court don't have to provide an alibi.

But it does help.

 

[jerry springer]

I seriously don't know why you waste your time and bandwidth

His thoughts are worthless and at best he has the maturity of a teenager.

 

[LoungeLizard]

It's pretty straight forward AT, nothing has changed.

There is evidence that TB4 was ordered by Charter.
There is some evidence that it was prepared by Alavi.
There is some evidence that it was provided to Dank.
There is some evidence that it made it to the club.
There is some evidence that it may have been used on players.

As you progress down that series of statements, the certainty of the statement decreases.

If you're willing to end careers because players unwittingly may have taken a substance that might be performance enhancing then you're not as intelligent nor as reasonable as you've portrayed yourself.

lets say everything you say here is correct.
What would you say would be a just outcome?

 

[Reality rules]

I have now established a "joust" with the great man on bombertalk4.com.

Thanks boncer34.

Sick'um Doc!

 

[Reality rules]

i think bruce might have a book in the waiting, and he needs the players to win or it's been a big waste of time.

He's got a big feature coming out in next month's "No Idea" Magazine.

 

[Moquo]

If you're willing to end careers because players unwittingly may have taken a substance that might be performance enhancing then you're not as intelligent nor as reasonable as you've portrayed yourself.

Almost makes you wonder why these players agreed to be subjected to this.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

It's pretty straight forward AT, nothing has changed.

There is evidence that TB4 was ordered by Charter.
There is some evidence that it was prepared by Alavi.
There is some evidence that it was provided to Dank.
There is some evidence that it made it to the club.
There is some evidence that it may have been used on players.

As you progress down that series of statements, the certainty of the statement decreases.

If you're willing to end careers because players unwittingly may have taken a substance that might be performance enhancing then you're not as intelligent nor as reasonable as you've portrayed yourself.

Hang on a second.
I'm not ending anyone's career!
Just because I can put up a reasonable argument to say that TB4 was used on players, it is not I who will be adjudicating at the Tribunal.
Have confidence in the system Andrew. Do you think the tribunal will ban players with insufficient evidence? I don't think so. However if there is enough evidence to ban one or more players (up to 34) then they are the ones that will suspend them.
We are only here to discuss the things we know and think we know! It would be boring if we all agreed on every point!

 

[Blueyboy74]

Correct.
Players don't have to prove anything.
Onus is 100% on ASADA to prove that each and every one of the 34 players used TB4.

The burden of proof is comfortably satisfied which I think most objective observers would be based on what we know thus far. Am I 100% certain? No and we probably never will be but I'm certainly more than comfortable that TB4 was administered to players and by extension, those that signed the consent forms.

 

[LoungeLizard]

The burden of proof is comfortably satisfied which I think most objective observers would be based on what we know thus far. Am I 100% certain? No and we probably never will be but I'm certainly more than comfortable that TB4 was administered to players and by extension, those that signed the consent forms.

Don't feed him or there will be 100 pages of the same crap

 

[gavaniacono]

If I poke the bear too hard, it won't be civilised. I think we'll get more out of the conversation by being circumspect.

AT are you really a Richmond supporter?

 

[Reality rules]

Don't feed him or there will be 100 pages of the same crap

Wrong....more like 300!

 

[Ancient Tiger]

AT are you really a Richmond supporter?

Born and bred there!

 

[Funk]

Nice work AT.

 

[Max Headroom]

So he's basically accepting that the players were given TB4. The evidence then must be pretty compelling.

That's not the way I see it, but I'm not silly enough to start an argument about my opinion of someone else's opinion! People are welcome to interpret as they wish, or ask Bruce directly if it is important to them.

 

[Reality rules]

Born and bred there!

You can get cream for that nowadays!

 

[Max Headroom]

His argument is that you can't ban 34 players unless you can show 34 players received it.
And a lot of people seem to think the players don't need to prove anything.
I am saying IF asada has evidence that TB4 was at the club and some players did receive it, then the players DO need to show some proof.
If 34 players signed those consents, then 34 players may get banned if they have nothing

Fair enough

 

[Reality rules]

That's not the way I see it, but I'm not silly enough to start an argument about my opinion of someone else's opinion! People are welcome to interpret as they wish, or ask Bruce directly if it is important to them.

Max, Max , Max now is the perfect time to start!

 

[gavaniacono]

Born and bred there!

You seem balanced and unaffected by the travails of our club. Most tiger supporters I know are clearly marked by failure.

 

[Reality rules]

You seem balanced and unaffected by the travails of our club. Most tiger supporters I know are clearly marked by failure.

You can get cream for that nowadays!

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

The burden of proof is comfortably satisfied which I think most objective observers would be based on what we know thus far. Am I 100% certain? No and we probably never will be but I'm certainly more than comfortable that TB4 was administered to players and by extension, those that signed the consent forms.

I'm 100% certain.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

You seem balanced and unaffected by the travails of our club. Most tiger supporters I know are clearly marked by failure.

I'm old enough to have seen 5 premierships. That always helps!

 

[Ancient Tiger]

You can get cream for that nowadays!

AOD cream?

 

[Rambis]

Can't imagine watching a game where a chunk of players on one team have been proven to be on the gear but are allowed to play because it couldn't be proven exactly which players.

No winners there.

Francis seems to be cheering for that situation.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Correct.
Players don't have to prove anything.
Onus is 100% on ASADA to prove that each and every one of the 34 players used TB4.

But if they prove a single player received it that would mean that player is banned correct? And if 2 are banned isn't there some team sanction?