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Opinion Butcher

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DaTBird187 said:
His dad played well into his 40's. Country footy legend, even though he was a Boxhead.
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tough bugger .... different build to Justin :)
 
Despite his inability at set shots, he is a CULT favourite at the Power. There is no player that draws as much crowd excitement than Johnny Butcher.

Love the butch, hope he stays!!!!
 

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R_Gray_Jnr_Jnr said:
Despite his inability at set shots, he is a CULT favourite at the Power. There is no player that draws as much crowd excitement than Johnny Butcher.

Love the butch, hope he stays!!!!
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Just get rid of Ebert huh
 
R_Gray_Jnr_Jnr said:
Either that, or make him a permanent tagger.

Ebert's abilities: Running, Tackling

Ebert's downfalls: Marking, Kicking, Handballing, Decision Making
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How do you explain his generally good disposal in his first few years back at the club then? He's had a down year & is still one of our best mids.
 
raptalia said:
You will not be getting any 'told you so' from me from me because I am not on an ego trip. If you look back on my posts you will find I have pumped for Butcher to get a fair shot at it and I have posted that I hope Butcher makes it. I have even suggested that Butcher be rookie listed if he is delisted. I sincerely hope Butcher makes it not to prove anyone right or wrong but for his sake and the benefit of the Port Adelaide Football Club.
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I'm happy to concede that you haven't always been negative towards him, but you responded to some speculation as to what Butch could offer us in terms of a role going forward with the same tired old "he will not make it" that we read in every single thread from the same posters about him again and again.

It's boring.

If you're going to claim that he isn't going to make it in a thread that has been overwhelmingly positive since the game on Saturday, tell us why. Form an argument.

For you to criticise other posters on boring opinions is akin to a pot calling the kettle names. How long have you been using the same old themes to pump Butcher's tyres up? Do you honestly believe that any true Port supporter is going to rejoice at a player being delisted? Your opinion would be funny if it were not so sad.
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I justify everything I post. I go into long and detailed analysis of why we need to be picking Butcher (or Harvey, or Shaw, or anybody). I can do it again if you'd like. I've been using the "same old themes" because nothing has happened to make me believe otherwise, and his game on Saturday only reinforced what i've been saying for 2 years. We should have been picking him this whole time. It might be boring because it's repetitive, but it's not boring on content.

And don't kid yourself that nobody is going to rejoice at seeing him delisted. It might not be you, but there will be plenty of regular anti-Butcher types who come in post delisting and remind everyone just how right they were all along. They might preface their statements with "I am as disappointed as anyone", but they'll be reveling in the fact that their boring and relentless negativity turned out to be correct and firing shots at those of us who argued positively. It will absolutely happen.
 
Maybe I just expect more from a 197cm, 95kg, number 8 draft pick who started on our list back in 2009. I didn't see anything to get too excited about last Saturday but some of you did so all power to John Butcher and to you.
 

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raptalia said:
Maybe I just expect more from a 197cm, 95kg, number 8 draft pick who started on our list back in 2009. I didn't see anything to get too excited about last Saturday but some of you did so all power to John Butcher and to you.
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The size thing is irrelevant, there are plenty of terrible footballers who are taller and heavier.

By saying 2009, you're implying he's experienced. I'd argue that he's still pretty young for a key forward, and most importantly, he's only played 25 AFL games. Less games than Kane Mitchell, Jake Neade or Jarman Impey. He's hard to classify in terms of experience, but I would argue that he'd benefit enormously from an extended run of games to get himself up to AFL speed.

I think we'd all agree that he could have held more marks, kicked straighter and been in a better position a lot of the time, but his contribution to our structure was a positive one. We barely kicked to the pocket at all, even when coming down the wing. His play brought Westhoff and the small forwards into the game. He made us a more dangerous attacking team.

If a player can come from a couple of months of playing in defence at SANFL level and have that sort of impact, i'd love to see how he'd go after 10-15 games in a row, and i'd love to see how he'd go after 60-70 games of AFL experience. There is a damaging AFL footballer in there, we just need to nurse him out.
 
El_Scorcho said:
The size thing is irrelevant, there are plenty of terrible footballers who are taller and heavier.

By saying 2009, you're implying he's experienced. I'd argue that he's still pretty young for a key forward, and most importantly, he's only played 25 AFL games. Less games than Kane Mitchell, Jake Neade or Jarman Impey. He's hard to classify in terms of experience, but I would argue that he'd benefit enormously from an extended run of games to get himself up to AFL speed.

I think we'd all agree that he could have held more marks, kicked straighter and been in a better position a lot of the time, but his contribution to our structure was a positive one. We barely kicked to the pocket at all, even when coming down the wing. His play brought Westhoff and the small forwards into the game. He made us a more dangerous attacking team.

If a player can come from a couple of months of playing in defence at SANFL level and have that sort of impact, i'd love to see how he'd go after 10-15 games in a row, and i'd love to see how he'd go after 60-70 games of AFL experience. There is a damaging AFL footballer in there, we just need to nurse him out.
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I really appreciate your optimism on Butch but honestly if he really was up to it he should've made a better fist of it by now, he would've shown at sanfl level. I like what he offered the side on the weekend but i think it's a mix of attitude and ability. He can hope for a rookie spot or base contract at best.
We want to play finals next year and we can't afford the luxury of blooding Butch for 10-15 games if he can't cut it.


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Hardcore said:
I really appreciate your optimism on Butch but honestly if he really was up to it he should've made a better fist of it by now, he would've shown at sanfl level. I like what he offered the side on the weekend but i think it's a mix of attitude and ability. He can hope for a rookie spot or base contract at best.
We want to play finals next year and we can't afford the luxury of blooding Butch for 10-15 games if he can't cut it.
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Generally i've argued a couple of things on this

1) The SANFL isn't a great place to develop key forwards as they employ AFL style team defence, which with the skill level of the SANFL makes it difficult for marking forwards to have an impact.

2) Schulz may already be gone, and if he's still here he probably only has a season or 2 left. Dixon is looking likely but hasn't signed yet and is injury prone. I'd argue that rather than being a luxury, we're actually a better football team with Butch in the side, and if we want to challenge for and win that flag, we need to pump as many games as we can into him. Imagine if he'd played every game in 2014 and 2015 and was a 65 game AFL player now instead of a 25 gamer. He'd contribute a lot more than structure and presence, and we'd be a better football team.

Unfortunately, because we didn't blood him, we're stuck now with a big hole in our list where we should have a key forward who is just about ready to take over the mantle of our number 1. Butcher has played 25 games, Harvey, Shaw, and Howard 0. If we get Dixon, we're a very lucky football team.
 
R_Gray_Jnr_Jnr said:
Despite his inability at set shots, he is a CULT favourite at the Power. There is no player that draws as much crowd excitement than Johnny Butcher.

Love the butch, hope he stays!!!!
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Pittard is another ;)
 
El_Scorcho said:
Generally i've argued a couple of things on this

1) The SANFL isn't a great place to develop key forwards as they employ AFL style team defence, which with the skill level of the SANFL makes it difficult for marking forwards to have an impact.

2) Schulz may already be gone, and if he's still here he probably only has a season or 2 left. Dixon is looking likely but hasn't signed yet and is injury prone. I'd argue that rather than being a luxury, we're actually a better football team with Butch in the side, and if we want to challenge for and win that flag, we need to pump as many games as we can into him. Imagine if he'd played every game in 2014 and 2015 and was a 65 game AFL player now instead of a 25 gamer. He'd contribute a lot more than structure and presence, and we'd be a better football team.

Unfortunately, because we didn't blood him, we're stuck now with a big hole in our list where we should have a key forward who is just about ready to take over the mantle of our number 1. Butcher has played 25 games, Harvey, Shaw, and Howard 0. If we get Dixon, we're a very lucky football team.
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Ken intimated that Butch will play against the Hawks :)
 
Coobk001 said:
Spot on Ross, Ebert's marking is elite. Not a hope in hell it is a downfall of his.
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Marking is excellent, disposal an issue but perhaps as others have said it's more that the player he should be kicking to is out of position. Might not be totally Ebo's fault. He is a good player.
 
El_Scorcho said:
I'm happy to concede that you haven't always been negative towards him, but you responded to some speculation as to what Butch could offer us in terms of a role going forward with the same tired old "he will not make it" that we read in every single thread from the same posters about him again and again.

It's boring.

If you're going to claim that he isn't going to make it in a thread that has been overwhelmingly positive since the game on Saturday, tell us why. Form an argument.



I justify everything I post. I go into long and detailed analysis of why we need to be picking Butcher (or Harvey, or Shaw, or anybody). I can do it again if you'd like. I've been using the "same old themes" because nothing has happened to make me believe otherwise, and his game on Saturday only reinforced what i've been saying for 2 years. We should have been picking him this whole time. It might be boring because it's repetitive, but it's not boring on content.

And don't kid yourself that nobody is going to rejoice at seeing him delisted. It might not be you, but there will be plenty of regular anti-Butcher types who come in post delisting and remind everyone just how right they were all along. They might preface their statements with "I am as disappointed as anyone", but they'll be reveling in the fact that their boring and relentless negativity turned out to be correct and firing shots at those of us who argued positively. It will absolutely happen.
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I, for one,hope Butch stays.
 
El_Scorcho said:
The size thing is irrelevant, there are plenty of terrible footballers who are taller and heavier.

By saying 2009, you're implying he's experienced. I'd argue that he's still pretty young for a key forward, and most importantly, he's only played 25 AFL games. Less games than Kane Mitchell, Jake Neade or Jarman Impey. He's hard to classify in terms of experience, but I would argue that he'd benefit enormously from an extended run of games to get himself up to AFL speed.

I think we'd all agree that he could have held more marks, kicked straighter and been in a better position a lot of the time, but his contribution to our structure was a positive one. We barely kicked to the pocket at all, even when coming down the wing. His play brought Westhoff and the small forwards into the game. He made us a more dangerous attacking team.

If a player can come from a couple of months of playing in defence at SANFL level and have that sort of impact, i'd love to see how he'd go after 10-15 games in a row, and i'd love to see how he'd go after 60-70 games of AFL experience. There is a damaging AFL footballer in there, we just need to nurse him out.
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Absolute rubbish. Butcher was recruited for his size if he had been 191 cm we probably would not have been remotely interested. I am not implying that Butcher is experienced I am pointing to the fact that Butcher has been on our list for six seasons and has still not made it at AFL level. How many players do we keep on our list for seven seasons without making it?

Butcher is 24 which is hardly veteran but it isn't exactly young either.

Apart from that good goal Butcher had little impact on Saturday if you want my definition of impact look at Rhys Palmer's game for the opposition, that was what I call impact.

As for giving Butcher 70 games of AFL experience- we simply cannot afford it.

You obviously see a different John Butcher than the majority of our supporters and I wonder what you will do with your time if Butcher is delisted.

Finis.
 
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