Butterss must stay

[fossman]

1. What about some questions of Westaway. I can't believe you people want to elect him based on "i'll earn more and spend more". it just beggars belief.

2. Three clubs earn more than us simply because they get AFL handouts. There are also four clubs which sell games interstate, thereby massively boosting their coffers. This drivel that we have the lowest revenue is just that - drivel.

Drivel? Football is a business, in order to be succesful over time the growth of revenue is imperative. RB's failure in terms of revenue and inability to maintain major sponsors has to be a problem.

 

[Fehring]

Drivel? Football is a business, in order to be succesful over time the growth of revenue is imperative. RB's failure in terms of revenue and inability to maintain major sponsors has to be a problem.

So, another person who manages to ignore what I say and not address Westaway and Fairy Floss First at all.

Nevertheless, I'll answer your email: Our revenue has been on an upward trend for a long time. It took a hit this year because we pulled out of Tassie which lost us 1) money from the Tassie Govt and 2) about 3000 Tassie members.

If we don't replace Vodafone and Bill Express, that would be a massive problem but it's only been a week. We will clearly replace them.

 

[Persevering Saint]

If Butterss does stay (which he won't after the 5,000 proxies, sheesh, St Kilda, what are you doing?!), it will be a tremendous turning point for our club. We will be putting our hands up to be a mature, stable side. Shallow upstarts offering even shallower promises will never rise up to bite our oh-so-gullible butts again. If Butterss stays, the only way he'll leave is PROPERLY, either because of a decent rebel group that has some substance, or more likely, through a stable transfer of board seats over years. At the same time, he will have been a little shaken by this whole experience, and will be more careful before mouthing off in the future.

 

[Fehring]

If Butterss does stay (which he won't after the 5,000 proxies, sheesh, St Kilda, what are you doing?!).

The Age and the Hun reported this. Presumably they didn't count the votes. They don't say anywhere that they got to look at the forms, and I didn't see the Fairy Floss First team show one proxy vote when they made the announcement.

 

[roostersgal4eva]

1. What about some questions of Westaway. I can't believe you people want to elect him based on "i'll earn more and spend more". it just beggars belief.

2. Three clubs earn more than us simply because they get AFL handouts. There are also four clubs which sell games interstate, thereby massively boosting their coffers. This drivel that we have the lowest revenue is just that - drivel.

I think it runs deeper than 'i'll earn more and spend more"

From an outside looking inward, having a good list is not enough when the coaches or the facilities are substanded or the medical team are not at the standard to get players injuries right!

Therefore the fact that the main way that Saints have a profit is because they spend less on the football department (I believe thats what the new ticket is claiming) would be a concern wouldnt it?

Its not for me to decide who is the better group - thats for Saints members but as I have a respect for the club, I hope the right decision is made by looking at both sides objectivey

 

[sauce_head]

http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/whiff-of-feud-puts-judd-off-saints/2007/09/19/1189881594879.html

Great, whilst I do not necessarily want Judd, it seems old StKilda habits die hard. Not taken seriously by the rest of the competition again. I hope MacGuire sticks around, but can you blame him?

If this board challange has the vested interest of the club at heart, why did it not raise the issues it has with the current board.

There goes our stability, there goes our president, there goes our CHB, there goes our hard earned respect of the rest of the league and there go our chances for next season, and probably the decade.

Thanks Fairy Floss First, your self centred attempt to rise on the back of an issue under control has merely destabalised the club.

Back to the 1980s and guaranteed holidays in September.

Thanks MacGuire, good luck with your next club, who can blame you?

 

[Fehring]

I think it runs deeper than 'i'll earn more and spend more"

From an outside looking inward, having a good list is not enough when the coaches or the facilities are substanded or the medical team are not at the standard to get players injuries right!

Therefore the fact that the main way that Saints have a profit is because they spend less on the football department (I believe thats what the new ticket is claiming) would be a concern wouldnt it?

Its not for me to decide who is the better group - thats for Saints members but as I have a respect for the club, I hope the right decision is made by looking at both sides objectivey

You say Fairy Floss First "run deeper" but then you justify it by referring to the current administration. WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME ONE ACTUAL POLICY THAT WASTEAWAY HAS? ONE THING HE'LL SPEND MONEY ON? ONE WAY HE'LL INCREASE REVENUE?

 

[fossman]

So, another person who manages to ignore what I say and not address Westaway and Fairy Floss First at all.

Nevertheless, I'll answer your email: Our revenue has been on an upward trend for a long time. It took a hit this year because we pulled out of Tassie which lost us 1) money from the Tassie Govt and 2) about 3000 Tassie members.

If we don't replace Vodafone and Bill Express, that would be a massive problem but it's only been a week. We will clearly replace them.

Fehring, I wasn't pretending to have any answers re RB or Westaway, just interested to get the impressions of Saints fans on the revenue etc. Thanks for your forthright response.

There is no doubt that the media have failed to scrutinize the Fairy Floss First challange. The media insist on dealing only in rumour and personalities and not what Saints fans really need, which is detail about the guts of either groups future plans for the club.
A properly organized debate between the factions detailing their plans regarding revenue, sponsors, development etc is needed so that members can make an informed decision. As you infer, simply stating that you will spend more on footy without revealing exactly where the money will come from is meaningless.

 

[sammm]

1. patrick smith has his first friend at a club in rod butterss after attacking st kilda for decade and being escorted off our grounds less than 18 months ago

2. PS was shown the door at the age and now works at the australian where he doesn't even have a desk, works from home and the australian newspaper values AFL for comedy value. He has NO friends at any club and hasn't broken a story in 10 years till he became butterrs best friend.

PS is a joke.

3. greg westaway started gregories transport 25 years ago and built it into a several hundred million dollar business employing over a 1000 people which he owns solely, sounds like a successful person to me. as CEO and owner of such an enormous entity he doesn't really need the stress of running a football club for no remuneration.

4. Nathan burke and AT are successful outside AFL and dont need the stress of AFL running.

5. 2 of the current board have defected

6. Danny frawley has switched to endorsing the rival ticket.

7. Fox a business opponent of westaway has endorsed his ticket

should the rival ticket be successful both caroline wilson and Patrick Smith lose their inside contacts at st kilda. They have no advantage in the rival ticket succeeding.

RB has been a highly efficient and effective manager of st kilda and I applaude what he has done. with the lowest turnover of almost anyclub he has returned million dollar profits. However his big mouth and attitude of archie fraser has cost st kilda staff and sponsors. Like elliot at carlton RB needs st kilda, not that st kilda needs RB.

RB has also let his personal emotions dictate decisions made for the club, that would suggest he is failing his duties as a director.

that in itself suggests its time for RB to move on.

anyone who takes patrick smiths articles ever as gospel, a reflection of truth and anything other than an editorial is naive in itself.

when did danny frawyley endorse the Westaway ticket?

 

[sammm]

well this gives more answers from FF
http://www.stkildafootyfirst.com/answers.html

Q & A
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q What are the exact details of the EGM?
A Tuesday 23 October at Kingston Town Hall, 979-985 Nepean Hwy, Moorabbin at 7pm

Q With the inference of drugs and alcohol at Board level, I feel you gave the current incumbents (and their allies in the media) something that could divert attention from the REAL issues. I have no doubt about your integrity but perhaps we can keep the debate confined to the issues of Footy First at St Kilda.
A We agree that this issue overshadowed the real reasons Footy First is challenging. Greg Westaway has repeatedly stated that this was not a stunt. It was simply a reference to the type of policies we, as a board, will adopt to ensure St Kilda is the most professional club in the AFL and every chance and opportunity presented will be capitalised on to deliver members our second premiership.

Q What will be the changes to the membership packages? To put it bluntly what’s in it for me?
A We agree that changes needs to be made with regards to acknowledging our loyal and passionate members. Without locking into exactly what it will be, Footy First will seek input from the members. It is evident when you look around other AFL clubs that St Kilda is a long way behind membership incentives.

Q Why does a group have to take over from a board that has delivered a gradual increase in profits? The current Board has been eating the future of the Football Club by not increasing the revenue and by not reinvesting in the football department. Here’s an example closer to home. If you do not spend adequate money in the upkeep of your house, your investment will crumble over time. While you can argue you saved more money over the year it will only cost you more in the long run. Profit for profit sake does not deliver premierships. Where is your plan?

A Over the next month we will continue to answer members’ questions. To ask the team to deliver a detailed and meaningful plan now is not appropriate given we do not have access to the specifics of the current financial situation. Member’s confidence should lie in the team that has been presented on the Footy First ticket who, combined, has business, financial, legal and football expertise. To provide a properly prepared business plan takes time. What we will commit to is providing a business plan to the public by the start of season 2008, and posting it on saints.com.au just as Hawthorn and Geelong have openly communicated their business plans with their respective members. A business plan is not the same as an annual report. The annual report they talk of is a retrospective look at the 2006-07 season with no plan for the future.

Q Why not show the AFL your business plan? Currently the existing board is making a profit. Can you prove to us members that your board will? The AFL signing off on your plan would be a step in the right direction.
A The AFL does not exist to run clubs. It was the current Board’s suggestion for St Kilda Footy First to lodge a business plan. The St Kilda FC Board is elected by members; not the AFL. The current board shirked its responsibility to listen to its members when it attempted to hand over the decision to the AFL.

Q What money or fundraising is Greg Westaway bringing to the club eg Richard Pratt at Carlton?
A Greg Westaway has provided sponsorship to the club for over 20 years in varying capacities and will continue that financial support.

Q Why call for an EGM and destablising the club rather than waiting for the Annual General Meeting to put your ticket up?
A To wait for the AGM would destabilise the Club. Due to overwhelming support and a desire for change in leadership at the club it is a case of … why wait? The next AGM is six months away at a time when the players are preparing to head into season 2008.

Q Where is the money coming from to fund all of these plans which involve additional and significant expenditure?
A Footy First is confident it can raise the Club’s revenue from $21M, the lowest in the AFL, to at least the average of Victoria based clubs by the securing and maintaining sponsors and providing better service to members. In addition to these two traditional revenue streams, a properly resourced administration team along with the expertise on the Footy First ticket the Club will be in a better position to identify alternate revenue streams.

Q How did you get access to the membership database?
A Under the Australian Corporations Act, any current St Kilda Football Club member can access the membership database. This is the channel St Kilda Footy First utilised and therefore all activity relating to members’ details is aboveboard. St Kilda Footy First does not intent to contact members again by post or SMS, however, if you wish to have your details removed from St Kilda Footy First records, please email StKilda Footy First

Q What will Michael Klim bring to the Football Department?
A Michael Klim is an elite athlete. He will bring diversity in high performance training to our Club in order to get the best possible results from our players who are themselves elite athletes. He is equipped with knowledge of the best possible technology available to measure player performance and manage injuries. Klim adds another dimension to a rounded group of footy specialists. Whether he has a weekly role or a guest role will be determined. We would welcome the Senior Coach as a permanent figure on that sub committee, if not a representative from the coaching department. As stated, we are also serious about recruitment and the List Manager of St Kilda will round out that group. Footy First want completely transparent lines between the business, board and football departments, therefore football representatives from the board, and a strong legal opinion in Mordy Bromberg QC will comprise the Footy First sub committee.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q Do you intend to bring Grant Thomas back to St Kilda?
A No. This is a fresh start for St Kilda.
No one on this ticket has had a conversation with Grant Thomas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q What Changes do you intend to make to St Kilda? You’ve shown us the facts; where are the solutions?
A Greater support to Coach Ross Lyon in terms of increased budget for more personnel and recruitment
New footy sub-committee comprising former players Nathan Burke, Andrew Thompson and Mordy Bromberg QC. Michael Klim joins the group to give the best possible advice on high performance, elite athletic training. St Kilda’s senior coach and recruitment/list manager strongly urged to join the committee.
Better communication with all supporters and incentives for members
Offer better value to sponsors, especially mid-tier sponsors
Increase staff levels to support membership, marketing, merchandise and other administration areas of the club


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q How will you maintain a strong financial state if you plan on increasing spending in the Football Department?
A The only revenue streams we currently have are membership and sponsorship. In order to become a successful and viable club we need to diversify our revenue streams. We are not privy at this stage as to where the $1M profit is held. Whether it is a case of reinvesting to survive will be determined by our strong financially focused Board representatives.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q Where will we base our elite training facilities?
A Our preferred option is to remain at Moorabbin. We will ensure that discussions are re-ignited with Kingston City Council as soon as possible to allow the redevelopment of Moorabbin to progress forward.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q Is everyone on the ticket a St Kilda member and when did they join?
A Yes. Greg Westaway, Simon Grant and John Gdanski are life-long members of the Club. Nathan Burke and Andrew Thompson are life members. Chris Brandt has been a member for the majority of his life, except periods spent living overseas. Dana Nelson is a first year member in 2007.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q How will you lure more sponsorship (including potentially a naming rights sponsor)?
A For years St Kilda has been talking about creating a sponsorship sub-committee. Footy First has already acted. The Saints Revenue Advisory Committee is ready to go.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q How will you look after members better?
A The Footy First team hears St Kilda FC members’ concerns that other clubs offer greater incentives for those supporters willing to back their club by becoming a member . We are open to suggestions about how St Kilda FC can do better. More direct, and timely, communication is paramount. Acknowledgement for continued support is definite.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q What will you put in place to increase membership?
A Better incentives for members. Regular, quality and direct communications with members.

 

[NeilElvis]

My vote will go to FF for a number of reason;

#1 Butterss has embarrassed the club too many times over the past year

#2 Members have been treated with contempt since the board lost David Friend.

#3 We have seen nothing from the current board as to their plan

#4 Sponsors have been lost regularly and one is suing the club

#5 The Steve Baker case was handled in a grossly incompetent manner

#6 The appointment of Ken Sheldon smells of 'jobs for the boys'- all RB's talk after GT's departure was about 'best practice'. Sheldon has continual probs actually doing his job... best practice (St.Kilda style).

That of the top of my head is a nice mix of personality and operational issues.

The sooner the current board re-signs the better.

 

[Fehring]

My vote will go to FF for a number of reason;

#1 Butterss has embarrassed the club too many times over the past year

#2 Members have been treated with contempt since the board lost David Friend.

#3 We have seen nothing from the current board as to their plan

#4 Sponsors have been lost regularly and one is suing the club

#5 The Steve Baker case was handled in a grossly incompetent manner

#6 The appointment of Ken Sheldon smells of 'jobs for the boys'- all RB's talk after GT's departure was about 'best practice'. Sheldon has continual probs actually doing his job... best practice (St.Kilda style).

That of the top of my head is a nice mix of personality and operational issues.

The sooner the current board re-signs the better.

Not one of those reasons has anything to do with Fairy Floss First, yet you're going to vote for them despite the fact that our financial position is sound.

The FFF diatribe posted by Sammm (thanks for that, Sammm) gave no answers at all about what they'll do. Total Fairy Floss. all they managed to do was once again spread the ridiculous notion that we have the lowest revenue stream, despite the fact that this is only the case if you include AFL handouts to poor clubs. We stand on our own two feet, play all of our games in Victoria, regularly play finals, make big profits. Then Fairy Floss First offers ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and you fall for the mirage.

 

[Saint4Life]

Rod must go imo.

Sent my vote off... I simply dont trust him anymore. It is cleary evident with his relationship to the players/staff & comments this year.

Whilst I have great respect for him turning things around money wise, he has lost his edge. Removing Grant was a risk he took and he has to take responsibility for his actions which did not see us make the finals! Loosing sponsers, loosing key staff, how long do we have to put up with it for... really?

Now is the time for him to go, a new fresh board, and it now will create new opportunities for sponsers who might not want to deal with the current board.

Tnx.

 

[Fehring]

Rod must go imo.

Sent my vote off... I simply dont trust him anymore. It is cleary evident with his relationship to the players/staff & comments this year.

Whilst I have great respect for him turning things around money wise, he has lost his edge. Removing Grant was a risk he took and he has to take responsibility for his actions which did not see us make the finals! Loosing sponsers, loosing key staff, how long do we have to put up with it for... really?

Now is the time for him to go, a new fresh board, and it now will create new opportunities for sponsers who might not want to deal with the current board.

Tnx.

Getting a whole new board with NO experience and a footy sub-committee with ONE YEAR's footy dept experience between them is a disaster. OUR NEXT FOOTY SUB COMMITTEE IS GOING TO HAVE MICHAEL KLIM ON IT.

Fair dinkum. A couple of bumps in the road, and you just go to water.

 

[sauce_head]

A few choice quotes from Fairy Floss First:

Without locking into exactly what it will be, Footy First will seek input from the members
No policy here except to survey the members.

To ask the team to deliver a detailed and meaningful plan now is not appropriate given we do not have access to the specifics of the current financial situation.
Their improved spending plan is based on information they may have. Without an accurate apraisal, how can they guarnatee anything more than the current board? They may as well PROMISE a premiership next year as well.

Greg Westaway has provided sponsorship to the club for over 20 years in varying capacities and will continue that financial support.
Greg Westaway has therefore purchased his position on the board and will have a direct financial card to play should there ever be a move made to remove him. That is scary - that is what you would be voting for.

We are not privy at this stage as to where the $1M profit is held. Whether it is a case of reinvesting to survive will be determined by our strong financially focused Board representatives.
Already here we witness a caveat to not increase spending. So what DO you stand for, given you have no information on which to base your assessment of spending?

We will ensure that discussions are re-ignited with Kingston City Council as soon as possible to allow the redevelopment of Moorabbin to progress forward.
The discussions are already ongoing. We are in the position of strength, not Kingston, which is how we are currently playing it, for the best facilities AND growth result, a look around is natural (especially when negotiating). Fairly Floss First have already closed this door to alternative revenue streams and potentially better facility packages, by the above statement.

The Saints Revenue Advisory Committee is ready to go.
A committee for revenue. Nothing solves problems like more meetings.

Please, has this been prepared by a first year business student?

At least fairy floss smells nice, this smells of Sh!t....

And I am unconvinced by Klim. Can somebody show me his CV? Perhaps we should be getting the AIS facilities advisors instead, those who actually do the work?

 

[Persevering Saint]

Are these people serious?!?!

Q What are the exact details of the EGM?
A Tuesday 23 October at Kingston Town Hall, 979-985 Nepean Hwy, Moorabbin at 7pm

Boy, glad I got that info from you... wasn't gonna get that anywhere else!

A We agree that this issue overshadowed the real reasons Footy First is challenging. Greg Westaway has repeatedly stated that this was not a stunt. It was simply a reference to the type of policies we, as a board, will adopt to ensure St Kilda is the most professional club in the AFL and every chance and opportunity presented will be capitalised on to deliver members our second premiership.

Can you say "backpeddle" boys and girls...?

Q. What's in it for me?
A We agree that changes needs to be made with regards to acknowledging our loyal and passionate members. Without locking into exactly what it will be, Footy First will seek input from the members. It is evident when you look around other AFL clubs that St Kilda is a long way behind membership incentives.

Fluff, fluff and more fluff.

To ask the team to deliver a detailed and meaningful plan now is not appropriate given we do not have access to the specifics of the current financial situation.

Crap. You have two board members on your team, who should have had some access to such records. Maybe you can't know specifics, but you can make significantly less general predictions.

Member’s confidence should lie in the team that has been presented on the Footy First ticket who, combined, has business, financial, legal and football expertise.

So do Butterss and the rest of the existing team.

What we will commit to is providing a business plan to the public by the start of season 2008...

... About five months after you want us to vote you in... sure!

The AFL does not exist to run clubs. It was the current Board’s suggestion for St Kilda Footy First to lodge a business plan. The St Kilda FC Board is elected by members; not the AFL. The current board shirked its responsibility to listen to its members when it attempted to hand over the decision to the AFL.

Nice try at dodging the fact that you don't HAVE a business plan! I don't want the AFL to make the decision about our board, but I DO want to know whether they think you're completely incompetent, because they have enough experience with AFL club books to be able to tell us. THAT'S Butterss' point. If you can show you're competence to the AFL, they'll tell the members to trust you. In which case, Butterss, club man that he is, will resign to spare the club a potentially bloody election.

Q Why call for an EGM and destablising the club rather than waiting for the Annual General Meeting to put your ticket up?
A To wait for the AGM would destabilise the Club.

This kind of challenge ALWAYS destabilises the Club. It's not about the timing, it's about the way you've done it. You already had a few board members, and should've sought for more to be voted in at the AGM. With your faction strong in the board, Butterss would've quit peacefully.

Q Where is the money coming from to fund all of these plans which involve additional and significant expenditure?
A Footy First is confident it can raise the Club’s revenue from $21M, the lowest in the AFL, to at least the average of Victoria based clubs by the securing and maintaining sponsors and providing better service to members. In addition to these two traditional revenue streams, a properly resourced administration team along with the expertise on the Footy First ticket the Club will be in a better position to identify alternate revenue streams.

ANSWER THE QUESTION! Where are you going to get this money? HOW ARE you going to raise revenue - you say you can identify alternatives, so name one, just ONE, as an example. A chook raffle? What? Besides, "Securing and maintaining sponsors etc" is still incredibly vague.

Q What will you put in place to increase membership?
A Better incentives for members. Regular, quality and direct communications with members.

What a brilliant idea! Wow, how clever you are to have thought of that! Oh wait, when Butterss came in we had a very low membership didn't we, and now we're at over 30,000, despite ditching Tassie. Oh, and he also improved the membership incentives from about 2003 onwards.

I've known beer belches with more substance...

 

[Qsaint]

FF have almost 10 000 Proxies, whether you support Butress or not his time is Up hopefully he can step aside and a new board takes over.

He can not continue if he has support of say only 55% of members

 

[The Punter]

It's over people. This was always going to happen. There was a groundswell of dissatisfaction with the current board, and this has carried over. Do not underestimate the effect of having Burke and Thompson on board had on the members.

Hopefully Butterss will move aside so the new board can get to work at getting us some new sponsors, increasing our revenue and spending more on football so we can win a premiership soon.

 

[sauce_head]

It's over people. This was always going to happen. There was a groundswell of dissatisfaction with the current board, and this has carried over. Do not underestimate the effect of having Burke and Thompson on board had on the members.

Hopefully Butterss will move aside so the new board can get to work at getting us some new sponsors, increasing our revenue and spending more on football so we can win a premiership soon.

People have voted out, ot voted in.

Lack of subastance will never stand up to people thinking that the status quo has lost face.

This really is a shambles. We do not even know what the new board are going to do. Same old StKilda, self destructive. **** it.

 

[Persevering Saint]

The really dirty thing about those 10,000 votes is that they're proxies, printed off the Footy-first website. One wonders how many of these people are just voting for FF because they can't be stuffed going to a meeting.

 

[sainter]

The really dirty thing about those 10,000 votes is that they're proxies, printed off the Footy-first website. One wonders how many of these people are just voting for FF because they can't be stuffed going to a meeting.

How is that dirty?

We received an information pack from Footy First in the mail along with a general proxy form. Having digested what they've had to say and after weighing it up with the performance of our current board they've decided that they do want the club to head in a new direction.

Are those 10,000 people somehow not worthy to vote because they don't attend the EGM?

What a silly point.

 

[NeXus_Helen]

People have voted out, ot voted in.

Lack of subastance will never stand up to people thinking that the status quo has lost face.

This really is a shambles. We do not even know what the new board are going to do. Same old StKilda, self destructive. **** it.

None of this would have happened if BUTTHEAD had not sacked Thomas. As I have stated previously, we were better than Geelong however at the end of last year we sacked our coach, they nearly sacked their coach. We missed the top 8, they won the flag.

From the moment BUTTHEAD sacked Thomas it was inevitable that he had to go as well. Unfortunately I have to also admit, it is the same old St.kilda.

 

[cartwright]

ahem, they haven't won it yet.

 

[NeXus_Helen]

ahem, they haven't won it yet.

That's true.....but I think they will.

 

[anton199]

anyone willing to part ways with 3 or 1 grand final ticket/s? PM me!