Play Nice Bye Bye Brad #3 [Locked: BS signs 2-year ext. Aug-2017, tied to NM until end 2020]

[Zebrah]

This biggest misnomer in this thread is the idea that there are two clear black and white camps one for one against.

In reality there are two poles and a shitload of grey in the middle.

Yep. Unfortunately the poles are histrionic and excessively repetitive....

 

[Zondor]

Get a load of these Pro Scotts optimistic types. They're the sort of Turkeys that would enjoy smelling a fart unleashed by Half Tonne Mom. The stench of mediocrity has stunk up Hardon St for the last 7 years yet they embrace it, defend it, and are proud of it. Sickening! :stern look

 

[Arden]

Get a load of these Pro Scotts optimistic types. They're the sort of Turkeys that would enjoy smelling a fart unleashed by Half Tonne Mom. The stench of mediocrity has stunk up Hardon St for the last 7 years yet they embrace it, defend it, and are proud of it. Sickening! :stern look

There's nothing wrong with sucking scats.

 

[Horace]

This.
Were also seeing the benefit of this within our own club, with the development of players of players like Dumont and Garner who are playing with real confidence and swagger now because they weren't thrown in the deep end. They were fed senior games here and there then sent back to the VFL with clear directions on facets if the game that they needed to improve. Now they're in the side and they're perfectly equipped to stay there because they didn't have their confidence destroyed. I anticipate seeing the exact same thing happening with Anderson and Clarke.....

This simplistic notion that playing all kids = fastrack premiership is a strategy that's a proven failure.
And what's even more laughable is the way these young North players are placed on a pedestal and portrayed as the second coming of Christ....then 4 posts later the same poster will claim that the club doesn't know how to develop young players....or recruit....

Brad learnt a lot from his first rebuild and is putting those lessons to good use

Good post. And reinforcing the view that "playing all the kids will fast track a premiership" is a fallacy, is the fact that Werribee has lost both of its games so far this year, by quite considerable margins. While there is certainly some talent in the reserves, in my view maybe it is not currently in sufficient numbers to enhance the performance of the senior team to all that great a degree.

Partly this is due to injuries depleting stocks at senior level - Higgins on Saturday, Jacobs, Wright, Waite - but partly also because I think a number of posters over-rate our younger players at Werribee. It is instructive in my view that our highest draft pick for some time, being Simpkin has played 4 of 5, was recalled immediately after missing one week with injury, and looks a class act. Of the other inclusions this year, Preuss has been good and EVW made a very good debut, but others elevated, last year and this year so far, with the exception of Clarke, in my opinion have not shown all that much.

It is also interesting to note that the Bulldogs have had a very strong VFL team for a few years now, while going back to the early 2000's, Geelong built to three flags on the back of strong premiership teams at VFL level. We need Werribee to really up the ante very quickly and start winning games.

Or it may be that we have a number of "good ordinary" footballers, as the late great Captain Blood used to say, on our list. If this is the case then even reincarnating either of the late great Norm Smith or Allan Jeans would not produce any better results than we are seeing.

For this reason alone, sacking Brad now with another year after this on his contract, does not make sense. Leave him there to continue the "development" of the team - in inverted commas as I see many LOLs from those who want him gone now but do I look worried? - and save our money for the future, especially now that we are to have our own standalone VFL club next year, which will need every available dollar then.

 

[Contra Mundum]

This biggest misnomer in this thread is the idea that there are two clear black and white camps one for one against.

In reality there are two poles and a shitload of grey in the middle.

The minimum level critique is Swallow and Thomas are not justifying selection - would send a message if they where dropped and Brad is not big on doing that - we have all said it before dropping senior players for poor form
Is a double whammy - it disciplines the senior players and is encouraging for kids in good form in the 2s who think they are a chance for selection - Brad has never done that


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[kaboom kid]

The minimum level critique is Swallow and Thomas are not justifying selection - would send a message if they where dropped and Brad is not big on doing that - we have all said it before dropping senior players for poor form
Is a double whammy - it disciplines the senior players and is encouraging for kids in good form in the 2s who think they are a chance for selection - Brad has never done that


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Despite being a rabid Pro Scotts Turkey that has drunk from the Kool Aid, I would have to agree.

I am glad that they have been retained until now but the time has come. I wanted to see Swallow given a chance as he has been such a great servant and I believe our legends should be treated with dignity and respect. He has had that chance now. Thomas has been very poor for a long time, he doesn't offer the same defensive pressure as he used to and his goalkicking is pretty mediocre. He is never going to get a fair go from the umpires now and that makes him a liability. I believe he only has himself to blame for that. He is clearly a great bloke, a great clubman and a fantastic mentor for the young indigenous players but that's not enough. I think he has lost confidence too. I believe he has the ability to come back and recapture some of his 2013 form but needs an extended period in the VFL to take the pressure off.

Although I think the club is moving in the right direction in general, I felt that selection was a problem this week. Taking one ruckman to Perth this week was a big mistake. Goldies recent injury record is poor and if he went down Sandilands and Fyfe were always going to destroy us. We were lucky it only happened in the last quarter. Plus ruck is one of our strengths and Preuss has been brilliant. I also don't like seeing Ben Brown as the sole key forward, particularly when there is no back up ruckman. Brown is good but not good enough to play as the sole KPF and tends to get dragged up the ground. My ideal balance is Brown, one other KPF, Wood as the mid sized forward with 3 smalls. Majak's form was decent in the one senior game he played so don't understand why he wasn't selected. He clearly won't get games once Waite returns so surely this was an opportunity missed. He's big and he's fast and he creates headaches and matchup difficulties for the opposition. He's a decent kick for goal too. Wood and EVW were good selections I guess.

So Clarke, Daw, Preuss and Anderson would be my ins for this week. Swallow, Thomas, Goldstein and Thompson out. Thompson wasn't that bad last week but we're too top heavy in defence with both him and EVW. Should be two out of EVW, Hansen and Thompson for mine.

 

[Passmore]

This.
Were also seeing the benefit of this within our own club, with the development of players of players like Dumont and Garner who are playing with real confidence and swagger now because they weren't thrown in the deep end. They were fed senior games here and there then sent back to the VFL with clear directions on facets if the game that they needed to improve. Now they're in the side and they're perfectly equipped to stay there because they didn't have their confidence destroyed. I anticipate seeing the exact same thing happening with Anderson and Clarke.....

This simplistic notion that playing all kids = fastrack premiership is a strategy that's a proven failure.
And what's even more laughable is the way these young North players are placed on a pedestal and portrayed as the second coming of Christ....then 4 posts later the same poster will claim that the club doesn't know how to develop young players....or recruit....

Brad learnt a lot from his first rebuild and is putting those lessons to good use

You make so good points there. Carlton fielded 7 teenagers last Friday. That went well.

However, I do think there is an obligation from the MC to move out underperforming players, such as Swallow and Thomas and reward the continued form of some of Clarke, Wagner, Anderson and Mountford. They all have a solid base of preseason form and VFL form.

I'm not sure of the contract status of our assistant coaches, however given Scott is contracted until 2018, if possible it could only help the rebuild to get some fresh eyes on the list to work with him.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

I don't think even the rabid anti Scott brigade are talking about playing the Werribee side in the firsts - that would be foolish and is not required anyway.

What has been suggested is that there are players in the seconds that can help the firsts win (both now and into the future) or at least not do any worse.

2-3 players - maybe 4 max.

Given there are 3-4 underperforming players in the firsts now (and by coincidence mostly the same style of player) its not that hard to do the math.

I think even the pro Scott brigade are coming around to that view - its taken a while but a 0-5 start will get everyone questioning conventional thinking.

So we may have a meeting of the minds so to speak and the prospect of 3-4 changes now looks possible - even likely.

We just have to hope now that when Scott picks the side with the appropriate changes above that Crocker and his MC cronies don't change things around and ring another team through to the AFL using the bat phone

 

[kaboom kid]

You make so good points there. Carlton fielded 7 teenagers last Friday. That went well.

However, I do think there is an obligation from the MC to move out underperforming players, such as Swallow and Thomas and reward the continued form of some of Clarke, Wagner, Anderson and Mountford. They all have a solid base of preseason form and VFL form.

I'm not sure of the contract status of our assistant coaches, however given Scott is contracted until 2018, if possible it could only help the rebuild to get some fresh eyes on the list to work with him.

Agree 100%.......I really like Wagner and Mountford will become a gun I reckon. Both have solid VFL form as you say. Anderson and Clarke just slightly ahead in the queue...Perhaps you're right re assistant coaches, maybe we're a bit North-centric and could do with some outside influences. No more skilful player than Boomer I guess for a skills coach and it was always going to be impossible to keep him away. I have to say I'm impressed with how our defence has improved over the last few weeks, given how poor they were in round 1 and despite a reasonable turnover of players and massive number of forward entries from the opposition. Feather in Brad Greens cap perhaps?

 

[kaboom kid]

I don't think even the rabid anti Scott brigade are talking about playing the Werribee side in the firsts - that would be foolish and is not required anyway.

What has been suggested is that there are players in the seconds that can help the firsts win (both now and into the future) or at least not do any worse.

2-3 players - maybe 4 max.

Given there are 3-4 underperforming players in the firsts now (and by coincidence mostly the same style of player) its not that hard to do the math.

I think even the pro Scott brigade are coming around to that view - its taken a while but a 0-5 start will get everyone questioning conventional thinking.

So we may have a meeting of the minds so to speak and the prospect of 3-4 changes now looks possible - even likely.

We just have to hope now that when Scott picks the side with the appropriate changes above that Crocker and his MC cronies don't change things around and ring another team through to the AFL using the bat phone

Yes, would be nice to see a less adversarial and abusive approach on this board for sure. People seem to forget we all support the same team.

I do feel sorry for the coaching team and match committee in a way. Managing major change in an organisation is always difficult and getting rid of 4 club legends in one fell swoop always had the potential to be destabilising. I am sure that players like Ziebell and Cunnington don't want to hear that we are 'bottoming out', 'playing the kids' and accepting bottom four finishes for the next 3 years...you would just request a trade wouldn't you? I can see why the club has chosen to adopt a patient approach with Lindsay and Andrew, they are club legends and leaders... Unfortunately poor form has placed them in an untenable position. I reckon being dropped might be a bit of a relief for both in a way. It does make me feel very sad, I massively appreciate the contribution of both to our club and hate to seem them go out like this but very few players exit in good form....

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

Yes, would be nice to see a less adversarial and abusive approach on this board for sure. People seem to forget we all support the same team.

I do feel sorry for the coaching team and match committee in a way. Managing major change in an organisation is always difficult and getting rid of 4 club legends in one fell swoop always had the potential to be destabilising. I am sure that players like Ziebell and Cunnington don't want to hear that we are 'bottoming out', 'playing the kids' and accepting bottom four finishes for the next 3 years...you would just request a trade wouldn't you? I can see why the club has chosen to adopt a patient approach with Lindsay and Andrew, they are club legends and leaders... Unfortunately poor form has placed them in an untenable position. I reckon being dropped might be a bit of a relief for both in a way. It does make me feel very sad, I massively appreciate the contribution of both to our club and hate to seem them go out like this but very few players exit in good form....

If my recollection is correct they (LT and AS) have both been dropped before (?) and obviously came back better for it - granted it is harder to accept getting demoted in your older years as it becomes harder to get back into the side but they will know they haven't been contributing to the level required.

Brad has given them 5 matches and we have Adelaide the week after Gold Coast so its not going to get any easier.

 

[Royal Flush]

Dear Brad can we please have a win soon. It's been a while .

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[Istanbul Roo]

Good post. And reinforcing the view that "playing all the kids will fast track a premiership" is a fallacy, is the fact that Werribee has lost both of its games so far this year, by quite considerable margins. While there is certainly some talent in the reserves, in my view maybe it is not currently in sufficient numbers to enhance the performance of the senior team to all that great a degree.

Partly this is due to injuries depleting stocks at senior level - Higgins on Saturday, Jacobs, Wright, Waite - but partly also because I think a number of posters over-rate our younger players at Werribee. It is instructive in my view that our highest draft pick for some time, being Simpkin has played 4 of 5, was recalled immediately after missing one week with injury, and looks a class act. Of the other inclusions this year, Preuss has been good and EVW made a very good debut, but others elevated, last year and this year so far, with the exception of Clarke, in my opinion have not shown all that much.

It is also interesting to note that the Bulldogs have had a very strong VFL team for a few years now, while going back to the early 2000's, Geelong built to three flags on the back of strong premiership teams at VFL level. We need Werribee to really up the ante very quickly and start winning games.

Or it may be that we have a number of "good ordinary" footballers, as the late great Captain Blood used to say, on our list. If this is the case then even reincarnating either of the late great Norm Smith or Allan Jeans would not produce any better results than we are seeing.

For this reason alone, sacking Brad now with another year after this on his contract, does not make sense. Leave him there to continue the "development" of the team - in inverted commas as I see many LOLs from those who want him gone now but do I look worried? - and save our money for the future, especially now that we are to have our own standalone VFL club next year, which will need every available dollar then.

Horace, how did you become so sensible?

I posted a badly-worded version of this in the Werribee thread. On Saturday our best mids had 22, 20 and 19 possessions each, in the VFL. Its not a performance that screams, 'elevate me to the AFL.'

On the other hand, I really dislike the way the board seems prone to build up certain players and diss others. All footballers have weaknesses - some more apparent or more significant than others. But they try their best in a hugely difficult vocation, and the abuse heaped on some of our players is really unconscionable.

Its the same with the abuse of the coaching staff. They do their best. Their best may not be good enough, and thus over time as this becomes clearer (as far as it ever can, given that the coaching staff are not in control of all the variables that are involved in the process of AFL competition), they will have done their dash. They will be replaced. But why the invective?

 

[Horace]

Horace, how did you become so sensible?

I posted a badly-worded version of this in the Werribee thread. On Saturday our best mids had 22, 20 and 19 possessions each, in the VFL. Its not a performance that screams, 'elevate me to the AFL.'

On the other hand, I really dislike the way the board seems prone to build up certain players and diss others. All footballers have weaknesses - some more apparent or more significant than others. But they try their best in a hugely difficult vocation, and the abuse heaped on some of our players is really unconscionable.

Its the same with the abuse of the coaching staff. They do their best. Their best may not be good enough, and thus over time as this becomes clearer (as far as it ever can, given that the coaching staff are not in control of all the variables that are involved in the process of AFL competition), they will have done their dash. They will be replaced. But why the invective?

Well most would differ with that view Istanbul Roo, but anyway.

I cannot agree more with the rest of what you have posted. I actually abhor the way some posters here so readily impugn our players and coaching staff when our fortunes are fading. Neither the players nor the coaching staff want to achieve anything less than what we want. Some of them, such as Swallow and Thompson, have given their all for this club and were much revered at the peak of their careers. Now they are in decline, they are treated with the utmost disrespect by some posters. As a consequence I have lost all respect for so many of those worst offenders on this board, for the way they so easily forget the times when these very same players were stars of the game and helped us win games.

I work on the basis that if you do not have the intestinal fortitude to say the same things face to face to whoever you are saying it about, then you are an absolute keyboard coward. Often I don't read some threads here because it just disgusts me. No doubt those same posters could not care less how I feel, but it would be nice if before they posted their vitriol, they would just ask themselves a simple question, "How would I feel if someone wrote this about me?" Not hard to do.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not sure though that they are entitled to express it in the hateful abusive way that they often do.

 

[kangaspurs]

We have given the coach a licence to reset and begin a rebuild of sorts towards the next premiership.

Then why is he not rebuilding/resetting? Our team is consistently around the 8th or 9th most experienced and we have lost to sides this season who are less experienced than us. If he has a licence to rebuild then why is he not doing it?

The coach and coaching committee is best placed to know what is required of this rebuild, especially as Scott has been through this process before and (presumably) learnt from the mistakes he made last time.

There is no evidence of this considering that our last build under this coach was a failure, without a single top 4 H&A finish.

No evidence that he's learning from his mistakes either. So far this season is almost a mirror image of 2013.

You calling for all the old/useless players to be dropped for a "true" rebuild is based on a flawed hypothesis that young players development only requires game time. This is flat out false, and has been shown time and time again by perennial underachievers like Melbourne and Carlton who are STILL s**t, 15 years later.

Other teams like Sydney and Geelong have shown how bringing in kids into an older team that already has all the gameplans, structures etc set up fast tracks the development of their youth.
There is no point in bringing in ALL the kids at once and then having other teams cut us up like we were playing witches hats all game. They will not learn by us being on the end of 100 point smashings.

I've seen this myth posited by a few people who are pleased with the way we're heading. And it is a myth. Also a straw man response to many well reasoned arguments about our selection.

Very few people are suggesting that we field a team with 10 or 11 18/19 year olds. Most reasonable people simply just want to see old, underperforming players replaced with younger guys who are in good form in the VFL or in the pre-season. It would make us better in the short term, less experienced and would also contribute to the rebuild/reset.

How exactly will replacing, say, Swallow, Thomas, and Thompson with a combination of Clarke, Anderson, Wagner, Mountford and Durdin turn our competitive losses into 100 point smashings? I'll give you a hint, it wouldn't. In fact, it might even make us a better side in the short term, turning a few of those close losses into wins, as well as undeniably making us better in the long term.

What is happening at the moment, while really frustrating for the supporters, is actually the best case scenario. We are being competitive whilst still notching up the losses we need to get some talent in the draft this year.

No it's not the best case scenario, we're persisting with old players who aren't contributing now and have no place in our future. If they were still alright now despite having little chance of being part of our future success then I don't have a problem with them being selected. ie. Gibson. It's not the best case scenario to pay lip service to a rebuild by giving debutantes one game then casting them to the curb, imploring they work on their deficiencies in the VFL while older players are given continued leeway to fix their limitations in the seniors.

Scott is not to be judged on a weekly win loss. He should be judged at the end of the year based on how the youth are progressing.

Save your bile till then. I'm sure you can think of another topic to post about if you try really hard.

Edit: Pretty sure we won an intraclub in Feb, must be embarrassing to be that wrong

Agreed, he should be judged on his record in the last 18 matches, which sits at 3 wins, his deplorable record in close matches, and his inability to hold on to 5 goal leads.

He should be judged on his garbage rhetoric where he blames a rookie team, despite the side he picks being nothing of the sort.

He should be judged on his last 8 years where he has had plenty of time to build a list yet couldn't coach a team to be consistently good enough throughout the Home and Away season to finish in a top 4 position and give us a genuine shot at a flag, despite finals performances demonstrating that the talent on the list was clearly there.

 

[Mav]

Well most would differ with that view Istanbul Roo, but anyway.

I cannot agree more with the rest of what you have posted. I actually abhor the way some posters here so readily impugn our players and coaching staff when our fortunes are fading. Neither the players nor the coaching staff want to achieve anything less than what we want. Some of them, such as Swallow and Thompson, have given their all for this club and were much revered at the peak of their careers. Now they are in decline, they are treated with the utmost disrespect by some posters. As a consequence I have lost all respect for so many of those worst offenders on this board, for the way they so easily forget the times when these very same players were stars of the game and helped us win games.

I work on the basis that if you do not have the intestinal fortitude to say the same things face to face to whoever you are saying it about, then you are an absolute keyboard coward. Often I don't read some threads here because it just disgusts me. No doubt those same posters could not care less how I feel, but it would be nice if before they posted their vitriol, they would just ask themselves a simple question, "How would I feel if someone wrote this about me?" Not hard to do.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not sure though that they are entitled to express it in the hateful abusive way that they often do.

I've been told on more than one occasion that I'm a s**t footballer. Generally I just laugh, blow the whistle, give a free kick against them and laugh again!

 

[Horace]

I've been told on more than one occasion that I'm a s**t footballer. Generally I just laugh, blow the whistle, give a free kick against them and laugh again!

Probably easier to hear being in a position where you have some power over them to retaliate.

 

[Mav]

Probably easier to hear being in a position where you have some power over them to retaliate.

They were 10 year old kids, they deserved it.

 

[Istanbul Roo]

Well most would differ with that view Istanbul Roo, but anyway.

I cannot agree more with the rest of what you have posted. I actually abhor the way some posters here so readily impugn our players and coaching staff when our fortunes are fading. Neither the players nor the coaching staff want to achieve anything less than what we want. Some of them, such as Swallow and Thompson, have given their all for this club and were much revered at the peak of their careers. Now they are in decline, they are treated with the utmost disrespect by some posters. As a consequence I have lost all respect for so many of those worst offenders on this board, for the way they so easily forget the times when these very same players were stars of the game and helped us win games.

I work on the basis that if you do not have the intestinal fortitude to say the same things face to face to whoever you are saying it about, then you are an absolute keyboard coward. Often I don't read some threads here because it just disgusts me. No doubt those same posters could not care less how I feel, but it would be nice if before they posted their vitriol, they would just ask themselves a simple question, "How would I feel if someone wrote this about me?" Not hard to do.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not sure though that they are entitled to express it in the hateful abusive way that they often do.

We agree! Maybe its our Fitzroy backgrounds ... or maybe not!

 

[Horace]

We agree! Maybe its our Fitzroy backgrounds ... or maybe not!

I reckon it might be the former.

 

[kaboom kid]

Well most would differ with that view Istanbul Roo, but anyway.

I cannot agree more with the rest of what you have posted. I actually abhor the way some posters here so readily impugn our players and coaching staff when our fortunes are fading. Neither the players nor the coaching staff want to achieve anything less than what we want. Some of them, such as Swallow and Thompson, have given their all for this club and were much revered at the peak of their careers. Now they are in decline, they are treated with the utmost disrespect by some posters. As a consequence I have lost all respect for so many of those worst offenders on this board, for the way they so easily forget the times when these very same players were stars of the game and helped us win games.

I work on the basis that if you do not have the intestinal fortitude to say the same things face to face to whoever you are saying it about, then you are an absolute keyboard coward. Often I don't read some threads here because it just disgusts me. No doubt those same posters could not care less how I feel, but it would be nice if before they posted their vitriol, they would just ask themselves a simple question, "How would I feel if someone wrote this about me?" Not hard to do.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not sure though that they are entitled to express it in the hateful abusive way that they often do.

At the risk of sounding like an old Fogey I'm afraid that's the modern age we live in Horace, social media and internet forums are fertile grounds for keyboard warriors that can't communicate face to face and just pour bile over everything.....

You are absolutely spot on with the treatment of our players....some of the vitriol directed towards Swallow in particular has been disgusting. He won countless games for us in his prime. The same is true of the coaching staff who are probably working massive hours and doing everything they can to get us over the line. We are not Richmond or Collingwood supporters after all. North supporters have a decent reputation that is hard earned, it would be good to keep it that way. I really hate hearing our fans abuse our players at the football too....often by overweight or unhealthy looking individuals who likely have never even played the game. I thought the way Travis Cloke was booed by the Collingwood supporters recentlywas disgraceful. At least our supporters got behind Drew in the West Coast game. I'm not saying the coaches and staff shouldn't be criticised, they just shouldn't be abused.

 

[kaboom kid]

Then why is he not rebuilding/resetting? Our team is consistently around the 8th or 9th most experienced and we have lost to sides this season who are less experienced than us. If he has a licence to rebuild then why is he not doing it?


There is no evidence of this considering that our last build under this coach was a failure, without a single top 4 H&A finish.

No evidence that he's learning from his mistakes either. So far this season is almost a mirror image of 2013.


I've seen this myth posited by a few people who are pleased with the way we're heading. And it is a myth. Also a straw man response to many well reasoned arguments about our selection.

Very few people are suggesting that we field a team with 10 or 11 18/19 year olds. Most reasonable people simply just want to see old, underperforming players replaced with younger guys who are in good form in the VFL or in the pre-season. It would make us better in the short term, less experienced and would also contribute to the rebuild/reset.

How exactly will replacing, say, Swallow, Thomas, and Thompson with a combination of Clarke, Anderson, Wagner, Mountford and Durdin turn our competitive losses into 100 point smashings? I'll give you a hint, it wouldn't. In fact, it might even make us a better side in the short term, turning a few of those close losses into wins, as well as undeniably making us better in the long term.


No it's not the best case scenario, we're persisting with old players who aren't contributing now and have no place in our future. If they were still alright now despite having little chance of being part of our future success then I don't have a problem with them being selected. ie. Gibson. It's not the best case scenario to pay lip service to a rebuild by giving debutantes one game then casting them to the curb, imploring they work on their deficiencies in the VFL while older players are given continued leeway to fix their limitations in the seniors.



Agreed, he should be judged on his record in the last 18 matches, which sits at 3 wins, his deplorable record in close matches, and his inability to hold on to 5 goal leads.

He should be judged on his garbage rhetoric where he blames a rookie team, despite the side he picks being nothing of the sort.

He should be judged on his last 8 years where he has had plenty of time to build a list yet couldn't coach a team to be consistently good enough throughout the Home and Away season to finish in a top 4 position and give us a genuine shot at a flag, despite finals performances demonstrating that the talent on the list was clearly there.

I massively respect you opinion KS and think you post some great stuff but I would have to respectfully disagree with you on this. I believe doing a solid apprenticeship in the VFL is likely to make the younger players better prospects long term. Giving the young players one game in the seniors then sending them back to the VFL is a good strategy. It gives them encouragement that they are close to selection but exposes and reinforces their deficiencies which they can then go back to the VFL and work on. It also makes them hungry and desperate to get another chance. To use an EPL analogy, I believe Harry Kane has hugely benefited from his loan spells in League 1 in the Championship early in his Tottenham career. He's such a mature and composed player now and has huge confidence in his ability...Would that be the case if he played in Spurs 1st side from the get go....I'm not so sure. Compare that to someone like Saido Berahino who had it all too young and too early...He got ahead of himself and fell out with the club and coach. Look at him now, he is a burnt out shell, a shadow of the player he once was. Two years ago I thought he would be a great signing for Spurs but now I wouldn't touch him with a bargepole...Young players can get ahead of themselves. There's nothing wrong with making them really work for senior games. Mountford and Durdin were poor in their debuts but I'm tipping that next time they get a chance they'll make a better fist of it. That's what happened with Dumont, in and out for a little while, now he's an automatic selection in midfield and held his own against Nat Fyfe.

 

[Gasometer]

Well most would differ with that view Istanbul Roo, but anyway.

I cannot agree more with the rest of what you have posted. I actually abhor the way some posters here so readily impugn our players and coaching staff when our fortunes are fading. Neither the players nor the coaching staff want to achieve anything less than what we want. Some of them, such as Swallow and Thompson, have given their all for this club and were much revered at the peak of their careers. Now they are in decline, they are treated with the utmost disrespect by some posters. As a consequence I have lost all respect for so many of those worst offenders on this board, for the way they so easily forget the times when these very same players were stars of the game and helped us win games.

I work on the basis that if you do not have the intestinal fortitude to say the same things face to face to whoever you are saying it about, then you are an absolute keyboard coward. Often I don't read some threads here because it just disgusts me. No doubt those same posters could not care less how I feel, but it would be nice if before they posted their vitriol, they would just ask themselves a simple question, "How would I feel if someone wrote this about me?" Not hard to do.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not sure though that they are entitled to express it in the hateful abusive way that they often do.

I suspect they would be the first to pull out the Kodak and take a selfie.

 

[Gasometer]

Scotts is on Footy Classified tonight

 

[Saintly2]

Edit: Pretty sure we won an intraclub in Feb, must be embarrassing to be that wrong

In fact i heard that North played North in that intraclub and North still found a way to lose.