Bye Bye Tim

[Belnakor]

I've got some sympathy for Kim Hughes.

Hughes had to captain an Australian team that was in complete disarray post World Series Cricket. He was also undermined by Rod Marsh (great player, sh*t bloke) and Dennis Lillee the whole time.

dunno why you closed the bracket on just Marsh. Lillee also a certified shit bloke.

 

[Leeda]

dunno why you closed the bracket on just Marsh. Lillee also a certified sh*t bloke.

so your are the mandate on the breathing easy marsh hand ball...
hang on.. we are trying hard to shutter.. the delusion..

Pain is qharterizing..

 

[Belnakor]

so your are the mandate on the breathing easy marsh hand ball...
hang on.. we are trying hard to shutter.. the delusion..

Pain is qharterizing..

english please mate

 

[Admiral Byng]

I don't like wicket-keepers being captain, they already have too much else going on each ball without having to drive the team tactics at the same time.

But who else you gunna give the captaincy to? The only established senior players in the side are Smith and Warner, all the rest are questionable, either too young and inexperienced, or fringe players in and out of the test side without being firmly established. We can't give it to Smith or Warner for obvious reasons. Can't give it to Wade, Head, Burns or Harris because you don't want the embarrassment of dropping them for poor form or carrying them because they are the captain, can't give it to Green, Labuschagne or any of the other rookies.

So who you gunna give it to? And don't pick a bowler.

 

[Belnakor]

So who you gunna give it to? And don't pick a bowler.

JL returns to the crease and takes on the role of captain/coach. Couldn't be any worse than Harris.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

dunno why you closed the bracket on just Marsh. Lillee also a certified sh*t bloke.

Quite true.

Either way, with senior figures shitcanning him (Marsh was bagging Hughes in his books whilst Hughes was captain and Marsh was still in the team) and some of the utter hacks in that team, Hughes had no chance.

 

[sherb]

english please mate

Thanks, I was thinking it was just me.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Sorted by average, I've made the qualification 20 tests as keeper.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Pre-World Series Cricket, Marsh was averaging 32.82 but after WSC (and after the West Indians got into him, he averaged 19.33.

 

[Caesar]

Keeping has fallen away badly as well; should only retain his spot if their isn’t a decent replacement in the wings. Hell, Wade would be a better option.

Made some bad drops in Sydney but I’m still not sure we have anyone better behind the stumps. Carey’s glovework is not exactly an upgrade and I’d rather not bring Nevill back.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I've got some sympathy for Kim Hughes.

Hughes had to captain an Australian team that was in complete disarray post World Series Cricket. He was also undermined by Rod Marsh (great player, sh*t bloke) and Dennis Lillee the whole time. The Australian squad that toured Pakistan immediately after Greg Chappell was sacked was essentially made up of some quality in Hughes, Border, Thommo (although well in decline by then), Alderman and Marsh plus a heap of random pub cricketers. Guys like Greg Richie and Geoff Lawson did ok but it was a truly rubbish squad.

I'd call Hughes an outlier. Ian Chappell could have captained that side and they wouldn't have performed much better than they did.

Greg Chappell wasn't sacked, he made himself unavailable to tour. Where Hughes was unlucky was after the 1983-84 season, Chappell, Lillee and Marsh all retired leaving a gaping hole in the team, and to make matters worse they toured the West Indies for 5 Tests (losing 3), and then they returned home for another 5 Test series against the West Indies again. Whoever scheduled that deserved a kick in the pants. 10 Tests in a row against the Windies. Unfortunately, Hughes lost 6 of 8 Tests, and on top of the fact he was struggling for runs, it became a bit much for him.

Hughes played in Border's 1st Test as captain but to no avail. In the 18 innings he batted in those two series, his highest score was only 37, totaling 296 runs @16.44. When you're in that sort of form, it makes captaincy very difficult indeed.

 

[Belnakor]

Quite true.

Either way, with senior figures shitcanning him (Marsh was bagging Hughes in his books whilst Hughes was captain and Marsh was still in the team) and some of the utter hacks in that team, Hughes had no chance.

my old man has book Lillee was involved in written right before WSC where he basically has a massive pot shot at pretty much everyone in the establishment. Its pretty funny to see in hindsight how money hungry Lillee was (and still is)

 

[Fat Nyfe]

For the bowlers, I'd love to see Swepson trialed ahead of Lyon in SA, and Patto for Starc if he's fit. If not, Neser. I feel sorry for a guy like Neser who seems to be in a few Test squads after bowling with an average in the mid to low 20s in the Shield for years, but watches on the sidelines as a guy like Starc just sprays it everywhere like he has for quite a while now and continues to get in on reputation.

Something that has always irked me about Starc too is how he's celebrated for firing out the tailenders and always brought back on against them. **** me, if any bowler worth their salt got treated to as many spells against bunnies as Starc does, they'd have inflated figures as well. You should be celebrated for firing out batsmen, not bowlers. Cummins would average under 20 with the ball if he was gifted as many wickets as Starc gets. Cummins often doesn't get the new ball, and doesn't get the tailender spells.

 

[big_e]

I don't like wicket-keepers being captain, they already have too much else going on each ball without having to drive the team tactics at the same time.

But who else you gunna give the captaincy to? The only established senior players in the side are Smith and Warner, all the rest are questionable, either too young and inexperienced, or fringe players in and out of the test side without being firmly established. We can't give it to Smith or Warner for obvious reasons. Can't give it to Wade, Head, Burns or Harris because you don't want the embarrassment of dropping them for poor form or carrying them because they are the captain, can't give it to Green, Labuschagne or any of the other rookies.

So who you gunna give it to? And don't pick a bowler.

I find the "only batters can be captain" thing quite odd.

For a start, Kapil Dev, MS Dhoni and Imran Khan have all won World Cups as captains.

One of our most beloved captains was Richie Benaud. The captain for our first series win in India was Adam Gilchrist.

Yet the attitude persists.

 

[Tigerssaints]

First loss at the Gabba in over 3 decades to India's C team. Most disgraceful captain ever.

Pathetic
THE FACT THE NSW 4 SUPER BOWLERS ,LIKED THEY DID IN ENGLAND FAILED
TIM didnt bowl the balls
Cummins V/C no help
Tim did not asked to be capt ,Smith and Warner CHEATED
never hear any NSW common tators having a shot at there own

 

[Caesar]

I find the "only batters can be captain" thing quite odd.

For a start, Kapil Dev, MS Dhoni and Imran Khan have all won World Cups as captains.

One of our most beloved captains was Richie Benaud. The captain for our first series win in India was Adam Gilchrist.

Yet the attitude persists.

Keeping wicket and captaining is tough, but bowling and captaining requires a very exceptional person. It’s very hard to maintain the necessary detachment in the field.

There have been some brilliant bowling captains, but even a lot of the good ones were often prone to under- or overbowling themselves (e.g. Akram).

I have no doubt Cummins would be a good leader of men and probably quite tactically competent, but I mostly don’t want to see him captain because his bowling is too important to the side.

 

[Voice of the G]

Keeping wicket and captaining is tough, but bowling and captaining requires a very exceptional person. It’s very hard to maintain the necessary detachment in the field.

There have been some brilliant bowling captains, but even a lot of the good ones were often prone to under- or overbowling themselves (e.g. Akram).

I have no doubt Cummins would be a good leader of men and probably quite tactically competent, but I mostly don’t want to see him captain because his bowling is too important to the side.

Why not Cummins captain,use Paine to assist him with setting up the fields.A wicket keeper is in the best position to organise field placings but important both Cummins and Paine work together.As mentioned trying to keep and be captain is not an easy job especially if your bowlers are letting the side down.Lets move on,no need to hit the panic button,we were beaten by a very good Indian side with great depth and the difference most likely would have been the 5th day of the last 2 tests.Why the over reaction with Harris,failed in the 1st innings and got 30 odd in the 2nd worth another chance in SA.Same with Lyon,has nearly 400 test wickets,give him another chance in SA.

 

[Caesar]

Why not Cummins captain,use Paine to assist him with setting up the fields.A wicket keeper is in the best position to organise field placings but important both Cummins and Paine work together.

I mean... this is essentially what happens now with Paine as captain and Cummins as VC.

IMO making Cummins captain only enters into the discussion when we’re talking about Paine being dropped.

 

[Voice of the G]

I mean... this is essentially what happens now with Paine as captain and Cummins as VC.

IMO making Cummins captain only enters into the discussion when we’re talking about Paine being dropped.

At the moment Paine is the best keeper in Australia so why would you drop him.Not sure why bowlers can not be captain as we have no batsman at the moment that I would recommend as a captain.Down the track I would be looking at Inglis as a keeper and Carey as a batsman only but I suspect they will go with Carey as the keeper.

 

[Caesar]

At the moment Paine is the best keeper in Australia so why would you drop him.Not sure why bowlers can not be captain as we have no batsman at the moment that I would recommend as a captain.Down the track I would be looking at Inglis as a keeper and Carey as a batsman only but I suspect they will go with Carey as the keeper.

If Paine is going to remain in the side then discussion of a new captain is moot

He’s not an awesome captain but he’s not bad enough to contemplate taking the job away from him with no obvious replacement

 

[Voice of the G]

If Paine is going to remain in the side then discussion of a new captain is moot

He’s not an awesome captain but he’s not bad enough to contemplate taking the job away from him with no obvious replacement

If he is going to remain as captain and keeps he needs more support from his team mates especially his bowlers.Not sure what vice captain Cummins offers in advice to Paine.A tough job doing both jobs especially when your team is struggling.

 

[Leeda]

english please mate

sensational blue... Tim Paine is a top bloke, a top keeper, a top captain... he just needs to not be quite so vocal so he won't
be captured in the measure of the perception of a game...

Time will tell..

 

[Tulip]

Direct Smith to go to SA under Paine's captaincy and go out of his way to be a good bloke/leader. The shadowbatting/crease stuff put people off again, but that can be redeemed. He is the only option.

 

[Gethelred]

Keeping wicket and captaining is tough, but bowling and captaining requires a very exceptional person. It’s very hard to maintain the necessary detachment in the field.

There have been some brilliant bowling captains, but even a lot of the good ones were often prone to under- or overbowling themselves (e.g. Akram).

I have no doubt Cummins would be a good leader of men and probably quite tactically competent, but I mostly don’t want to see him captain because his bowling is too important to the side.

Usually over. Knew a person who would open the bowling with themselves and just leave himself on all day from that end. On one hand, it looks like overbowling; on the other, he'd trickle along at 1.5 runs an over if they were lucky, and pick up 3-4 wickets a game. He wasn't lightning, but he was faster than a medium in park cricket. Would run marathons for fun in his spare time, and lacked an ounce of body fat on him.

At the end of it, I think it's less about whether you're a batsman or a bowler but your role and how pivotal to your team's success it is that you accomplish it consistently, and it's the consistency part of it that's vital IMO. See, while Smith's runs have been absolutely vital to our success, he can make runs for fun in trying circumstances without being captain, can and has. Cummins takes wickets at present, but he's also someone who's not the workhorse of the team; he's a strike bowler. To a certain extent, while you can certainly make Cummins captain - he's been a pretty consistent player - you want your captain as a bowler to be more someone like Hazlewood; someone who comes on, goes along at barely any runs an over and takes wickets with discipline and effort. Those are the standards they bring to the team, over just being good.

So, I don't know about making a bowler a captain, as Australian bowlers are very frequently not deep thinkers about the game (or if they are, they don't show it). They hit their lengths, they bowl jaffas, and they go home. But it could be done, if they found the right person whose performance is consistent and consistently good rather than great, and who sets the right standards and is thought of well by the team.

It does help if they can bat a bit, too, though.

 

[Leeda]

Usually over. Knew a person who would open the bowling with themselves and just leave himself on all day from that end. On one hand, it looks like overbowling; on the other, he'd trickle along at 1.5 runs an over if they were lucky, and pick up 3-4 wickets a game. He wasn't lightning, but he was faster than a medium in park cricket. Would run marathons for fun in his spare time, and lacked an ounce of body fat on him.

At the end of it, I think it's less about whether you're a batsman or a bowler but your role and how pivotal to your team's success it is that you accomplish it consistently, and it's the consistency part of it that's vital IMO. See, while Smith's runs have been absolutely vital to our success, he can make runs for fun in trying circumstances without being captain, can and has. Cummins takes wickets at present, but he's also someone who's not the workhorse of the team; he's a strike bowler. To a certain extent, while you can certainly make Cummins captain - he's been a pretty consistent player - you want your captain as a bowler to be more someone like Hazlewood; someone who comes on, goes along at barely any runs an over and takes wickets with discipline and effort. Those are the standards they bring to the team, over just being good.

So, I don't know about making a bowler a captain, as Australian bowlers are very frequently not deep thinkers about the game (or if they are, they don't show it). They hit their lengths, they bowl jaffas, and they go home. But it could be done, if they found the right person whose performance is consistent and consistently good rather than great, and who sets the right standards and is thought of well by the team.

It does help if they can bat a bit, too, though.

blind atmosphere.. are you a hypocrite? teasing the language so it represents your true value?

 

[Gethelred]

blind atmosphere.. are you a hypocrite? teasing the language so it represents your true value?

We're all hypocrites, Leeda.