Byrnes, do that every week

[eliiiiza]

It's definitely a confidence issue, we all saw last week what he can do when he has the confidence in himself to have a run and take the time to make a decision. Yesterday he was like, "Oh shit, I've got the ball, what do I do, WHAT DO I DO!???!?!?!"

Very, very frustrating.

 

[The Casey Cat]

It's definitely a confidence issue, we all saw last week what he can do when he has the confidence in himself to have a run and take the time to make a decision. Yesterday he was like, "Oh shit, I've got the ball, what do I do, WHAT DO I DO!???!?!?!"

Very, very frustrating.

Yes sadly after one week doing everything we want from Shannon he was back to some bad habits against North. Topped off by his run where he was so confused he forgot to bounce the ball. Just should not happen. Will probably be safe for this week but would need to return to Sydney game like decisiveness and efficiency to play finals I'd think.

 

[Reg Hickey]

I know all you arm chair experts will be saying well why should Selwood give it to him as he'd only miss etc. So I've said it now to save you the trouble and the answer to that is codswallop. Playing the team game is what has got Geelong to the top and a there are a few players out there who seem to be starting to forget it.

The simple factor you're missing here is that to play that team game you have trust your teammates, and there are some signs that Shannon's teammates don't necessarily have that trust in him. You pointed them out yourself - he gets clear often but they don't always give it to him.

And why would they trust him? Even just on Sunday he showed his own dismal decision making just before half time with that ridiculous 40m no-bounce run up the wing. I'm sure the other players notice these things.

He was running towards an open goal you say? Well, he also badly missed a sitter in the first quarter running into an open goal. And he does it all the time - his career scoring stands at 26.47 (!!). I'm sure they notice that too.

He does get a lot of the ball - I don't think any of us are questioning that. The problem is that he regularly butchers it by either running himself into trouble, or missing easy shots on goal that any AFL level player should be kicking. His field (ie. non-goal) kicking on his left is OK, but he has no right side at all, and he has got to be the worst handballer in the AFL right now - he looks as if he was just shown how to do it yesterday.

Bottom line - his skills and decision making are not up to AFL standard, and he showed that again on Sunday. How many chances do we need to give him?

 

[g-thing]

.

He was running towards an open goal you say? Well, he also badly missed a sitter in the first quarter running into an open goal. And he does it all the time - his career scoring stands at 26.47 (!!). I'm sure they notice that too.

I don't think he does it all the time. That's just wrong. 8 goals 9 behinds this year shows that waht you have just said is another exaggeration.

His career stats are getting better all the time.

 

[darren forssman]

I don't think he does it all the time. That's just wrong. 8 goals 9 behinds this year shows that waht you have just said is another exaggeration.

yeah, buddy franklin should take kicking lessons from him.

seriously, the one thing that all shannon haters and lovers agree on is that his kicking for goal is awful.

 

[canny30]

It's definitely a confidence issue, we all saw last week what he can do when he has the confidence in himself to have a run and take the time to make a decision. Yesterday he was like, "Oh shit, I've got the ball, what do I do, WHAT DO I DO!???!?!?!"

Very, very frustrating.

A lot of that comes down to being one sided too....opposition teams aren't stupid, they know he only has one side so they cover it.....and that leads to crap like his non bounce run down the wing.

He isn't up to it at the end of the day.

 

[ant0s]

Shannon played a good game in my opinion. He had 17 or 18 possessions most of which he won for himself - no kick to kicks in the back pocket for instance.

I also reckon he would have found that game very frustrating. He often ran into space to get open to find himself ignored and the ball kicked to a contest. Watch the replay and see how often he was free with his arms open. Talk about unrewarded running.

A classic example was Selwood's very poor decision making towards the end of the game. A simple over the top hand pass would have had Byrnes running towards an open goal but Selwood chose the wrong option and kicked to Lonergan in a one on one contest which he lost.

I know all you arm chair experts will be saying well why should Selwood give it to him as he'd only miss etc. So I've said it now to save you the trouble and the answer to that is codswallop. Playing the team game is what has got Geelong to the top and a there are a few players out there who seem to be starting to forget it.

mmmright. Selwood has barely made a mistake in 2 years of AFL football. His name should not be mentioned here.

 

[Reg Hickey]

He was running towards an open goal you say? Well, he also badly missed a sitter in the first quarter running into an open goal. And he does it all the time - his career scoring stands at 26.47 (!!). I'm sure they notice that too.

I don't think he does it all the time. That's just wrong. 8 goals 9 behinds this year shows that waht you have just said is another exaggeration.

His career stats are getting better all the time.

You can't be serious. He does do it all the time. Its 7.9 this year and 26.47 for his career, and that proves it. And over 53 games its less than a goal every two games - that is an appalling return for a "goal sneak".

Varcoe for example has kicked the same number of goals (26.11 in fact) in only 30 games, doesn't butcher the ball nearly as much, and is four years younger so likely has plenty more scope for improvement. Its no contest.

 

[TheTimeCometh]

the swans game flatters those stats.

 

[g-thing]

You can't be serious. He does do it all the time. Its 7.9 this year and 26.47 for his career, and that proves it. And over 53 games its less than a goal every two games - that is an appalling return for a "goal sneak".

Varcoe for example has kicked the same number of goals (26.11 in fact) in only 30 games, doesn't butcher the ball nearly as much, and is four years younger so likely has plenty more scope for improvement. Its no contest.

Biased, biased, biased.

Start thinking mate and try being honest. I like Travis, has a great future and I won't bag him but there is a great difference in his goal kicking and Byrnsies. Travis doesn't make the distance from anything further than 35 metres out hence those shots don't get counted in the missed stats! Try doing his stats with those factored in. He gets his goals from close range and good luck to him.

You go back and have a look, "Varcoe lining up, 40 metres out, on a slight angle, doesn't make the distance, etc"

While I'm at it and let me state I revere Gablett (absolute champion) as much as the next Cat's fan but just to show the level of bias here, count up Gablett's ratio of goals to behinds this year and tell me it is significantly different to Byrnsies.

 

[darren forssman]

You go back and have a look, "Varcoe lining up, 40 metres out, on a slight angle, doesn't make the distance, etc"

i did see him slot one against sydney on the run from 40-50m out.

apart from that, yeah, most of his goals would have come closer in.

what are the stats on shannons goals from inside 30m v. outside 30m?

 

[Catman]

Biased, biased, biased.

Start thinking mate and try being honest. I like Travis, has a great future and I won't bag him but there is a great difference in his goal kicking and Byrnsies. Travis doesn't make the distance from anything further than 35 metres out hence those shots don't get counted in the missed stats! Try doing his stats with those factored in. He gets his goals from close range and good luck to him.

You go back and have a look, "Varcoe lining up, 40 metres out, on a slight angle, doesn't make the distance, etc"

While I'm at it and let me state I revere Gablett (absolute champion) as much as the next Cat's fan but just to show the level of bias here, count up Gablett's ratio of goals to behinds this year and tell me it is significantly different to Byrnsies.

You don't see many Geelong games, do you?

 

[Cohzee]

Biased, biased, biased.

Start thinking mate and try being honest. I like Travis, has a great future and I won't bag him but there is a great difference in his goal kicking and Byrnsies. Travis doesn't make the distance from anything further than 35 metres out hence those shots don't get counted in the missed stats! Try doing his stats with those factored in. He gets his goals from close range and good luck to him.

You go back and have a look, "Varcoe lining up, 40 metres out, on a slight angle, doesn't make the distance, etc"

While I'm at it and let me state I revere Gablett (absolute champion) as much as the next Cat's fan but just to show the level of bias here, count up Gablett's ratio of goals to behinds this year and tell me it is significantly different to Byrnsies.

I wish I had the footage of Varcoes snap from 50 against Freo I think it was.

 

[AM]

You don't see many Geelong games, do you?

That's 24K

 

[g-thing]

You don't see many Geelong games, do you?

And which part of my post does this highly illuminating comment relate to - I made several points - rejecting them all? some? C'mon Einstein spit it out.

As a matter of fact I think I may have missed watching two or three Geelong games in the last four years or so.

 

[canny30]

And which part of my post does this highly illuminating comment relate to - I made several points - rejecting them all? some? C'mon Einstein spit it out.

As a matter of fact I think I may have missed watching two or three Geelong games in the last four years or so.

....then you don't know what you are watching.....pretty much anyone who actually tries to defend Byrnes' ability knows very little about the game......the people who defend him because they feel sorry for him at least have a validd excuse....you are just talking rubbish

 

[Reg Hickey]

Biased, biased, biased.

Start thinking mate and try being honest. I like Travis, has a great future and I won't bag him but there is a great difference in his goal kicking and Byrnsies. Travis doesn't make the distance from anything further than 35 metres out hence those shots don't get counted in the missed stats! Try doing his stats with those factored in. He gets his goals from close range and good luck to him.

You go back and have a look, "Varcoe lining up, 40 metres out, on a slight angle, doesn't make the distance, etc"

While I'm at it and let me state I revere Gablett (absolute champion) as much as the next Cat's fan but just to show the level of bias here, count up Gablett's ratio of goals to behinds this year and tell me it is significantly different to Byrnsies.

Mate, I have tried very hard to give Shannon the benefit of the doubt. I really have. But enough is enough. You need to open your eyes and take a long, hard, objective look at what Byrnes delivers.

Don't think that I'm just shooting from the hip here either. I posted quite a long analysis of Byrnes on Cats Claw last year, that basically breaks down and evaluates his strengths and weaknesses, and concludes that his skills and decision making are well short of AFL standard. I couldn't be bothered retyping it all, but if I get inspired I might go and search for it and repost it here later.

To your points, its true that Varcoe sometimes doesn't make the distance, but neither do Stokes, Johnson, Chapman, Ablett and others. There's a many factors that contribute to that. But often he does too, as a few have already pointed out. If you've watched as much football as you claim you should also know that often young players don't have the kicking penetration that more mature players do, so that will likely improve for him anyway.

I would also point out two more things - Byrnes often has his shots from very close range as well (those are the ones he tends to get - eg. in the GF from about 6 inches out at full pace after NAblett's handball over the top), and my stats don't include all of his out of bounds! I don't have exact numbers on that, but I suspect there's more than just a few. I'm sure others will back me up on that. (By the way, I notice that I am the one here who can back my observations up with stats - you are just posting statements as if they are facts. Where's your evidence?).

Finally, I can't believe you are bringing Gaz into this. They are very, very different players, but lets just ignore for a minute the fact that Gaz is probably the premier midfielder in the competition and delivers a huge amount to the team every week. And that he doesn't play forward very much at all anymore.

You asked for goalkicking, so lets just look at pure goalkicking stats. Ablett this year has kicked 22.19 from 17 games, and over his career he has 187.147 from 142 games. His first 55 games he scored 71.48. So his averages are:
This year: 1.16 goals/game, 54% accuracy
Career: 1.32 goals/game, 56% accuracy
First 55 games: 1.29 goals/game, 60% accuracy

Byrnes has averaged 0.5 goals/game at 36% accuracy over his 53 game career, and 0.9 goals/game at 44% accuracy this year. And that doesn't include the out on the fulls.

So you asked me for the stats - there they are. Where's the "bias"? Looks pretty black and white to me.

 

[Catman]

And which part of my post does this highly illuminating comment relate to - I made several points - rejecting them all? some? C'mon Einstein spit it out.

Firstly, the biased comment directed to Reg Hickey. You are just as biased.

Secondly, Varcoe does not get all his goals from close range. Yes, it's a high percentage but from memory he has kicked at least four goals from 35m or further this season.

1. v Carlton - 45m snap that went through post high.
2. v Adelaide - 40m out, slight angle, went through easily.
3. v Fremantle - 50m snap on the full.
4. v Sydney - 40m out on the run.

But if you want to say Trav gets easy goals, then Byrnes is the king of them. How many times is he conveniently in the goal square for the easy handball over the top into an open goal? His percentage would be just as high as Varcoe's I reckon.

Thirdly, his goals to behinds ratio compared to Gaz is:

Byrnes: 0.78:1 - 7.9 for the season.
Ablett: 1.29:1 - 22.17 for the season.
Varcoe: 2.75:1 - 11.4 for the season.

Comparing his ratio to Varcoe would be more appropriate considering they play similar roles. Look at the results - it's not pretty for Shannon.

While it's an improvement on past seasons, it's nowhere near good enough for a forward with over 50 games experience to be into the red when it comes to converting for goal. He'll remain a fringe player while he continues to waste the footy in front of goal.

As a matter of fact I think I may have missed watching two or three Geelong games in the last four years or so.

Then you should be aware of Byrnes' many deficiencies, especially as he's been in the AFL system for six years and has shown little signs of improvement. In reality he's probably gone backwards since his debut.

 

[sarah.13]

Brynes has played his last game for the cats. There is no doubt about his commitment but his decision making is poor and leads him into coughing up the ball or putting other payers under the pump.
With Stokes and Chapman we have the small forward position covered. The coaches obviously see Varcoe as a better proposition in the future.Has far better vision and skills is 4 years younger and will be a star in the future.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Brynes has played his last game for the cats. There is no doubt about his commitment but his decision making is poor and leads him into coughing up the ball or putting other payers under the pump.
With Stokes and Chapman we have the small forward position covered. The coaches obviously see Varcoe as a better proposition in the future.Has far better vision and skills is 4 years younger and will be a star in the future.

Agreed. He's stiff to get the chop this time as Trav is not exactly setting the world on fire right now but Shan was just back to his annoying indecisive play last week and it's not good enough. Will need injuries to get another look in this year I'd think.

 

[catempire]

Shannon as a late in. What odds?

 

[ciaobella]

What is it with people on here trying to justify Byrnes' spot in the side?? The kid aint good enough. Plain and simple! The last player I can think of that has received as much negative feedback as this guy was Kingsley and it took about the same time for the club to finally piss him off as well. Obviously the club is veeeeery patient and gives players a loooong time to prove themselves. Too long sometimes!

 

[darren forssman]

c'mon guys, a bit of positivity, we dont want scotty2hotty chief of the positive police to start banging on in this thread about all the negative vibes.

 

[Reg Hickey]

Firstly, the biased comment directed to Reg Hickey. You are just as biased.

Are you saying I'm biased??

 

[Reg Hickey]

Shannon as a late in. What odds?

Apparently he hasn't made an appearance in the curtain raiser, and rumour has it its because he WILL be a late in ...

Oh dear ...

Brynes has played his last game for the cats.

Not so fast!!