C4's '3 Birds with 1 stone' Idea

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Hello all.

Now this idea is going to sound somewhat "wrong" for all of you diehard Carlton supporters - and more sympathetic I could not be.

However, after watching our side defeat the Doggies and Port Adelaide, and then again watching us succumb to the Hawks and Fremantle in embarresing displays of football, I feel we should just endorse a "youth" policy for the remaining 9 games of season 2007.

By "youth" policy I mean:

• Play Shaun Grigg
• Play Adam Hartlett as a defender as a replacement for Saddington
• Play Kennedy as a forward as a replacement for Whitnall
• Play Joey Anderson
• Play Luke Blackwell etc

Play as many of the kids as possible and give them a taste of senior AFL football. I feel that this approach will have 3 very beneficial outcomes.;

1. We get games into our youth, and give them a chance to test themselves in the senior ranks.
2. We manage to score a priority pick (assuming that we win no more games this season, due to the inexperience of the kids in our side) - this allows us to add a Trent Cotchin to our midfield ranks for season 2008 - a HUGE bonus, as well as another high draft pick such as Grimes/Masten/Kruezer etc.
3. Pagan doesnt meet Pratts expectation of 10 wins - and therefore we obtain a new coach for season 2008 - preferrably a "new generation" coach who knows about the modern game.

Now I know this idea goes against a lot of your thoughts on here, but in all honesty - I am tired of hearing the same old argument of "but too many losses can shatter the confidence of the kids" - while this may be true, it really is only 9 games. And at the same time it gives us a better chance for success in 2008 (ie. new senior coach, new high midfield draft picks.)

Short term pain, for long term gain.

 

[HBF]

Hard to argue with that C4. Get as many games into the kids before the season ends, becuase that's about all we can do in the last 9 games of the year. Give them a taste, and get them to test themselves against players of an AFL quality. All good things if you ask me.

Grigg was almost promoted prior to getting injured, and JK, Blackwell and Joey have all had senior experience, so it's not like we are putting these kids in before they are ready. Also, Mark Austin might be a chance to debut as well, as his last couple of weeks have been pretty good.

 

[BlueBelle]

Even if we do play kids like Grigg, Kennedy and Anderson, we are still more than capable of winning a few more games.

 

[marcmurphy3]

I like your idea but Pagan will won't adhere to it as he is desperately trying to save his job (hopefully he fails).

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Even if we do play kids like Grigg, Kennedy and Anderson, we are still more than capable of winning a few more games.

In all honesty though BG,

As bad as this is going to sound

..... I don't think I want us to win anymore games.

It will only delude us for the time being - and will affect us in the long run (similar to 2004)

 

[blues4flag]

While it might be only 9 games (11, actually counting the last two), going into the preseason having lost our last 11 with absolutely no confidence will do us nothing. On the other hand, winning three or four of our remaining games will give our guys some hope going into the preseason, seeing that improvement is not too far off.

I do, however, agree that it is time we blooded some kids, though there aren't many guys in our 22 who can fairly make way, as quite a few of them are gaining experience themselves. Saddington, Whitnall (who's already out), Bannister, Young (although has done enough to keep his place this week) and maybe Lappin if his form doesn't pick up. Wiggins I feel deserves his spot in the 22 ATM. If Aisake recovers soon, he can replace Ackland.

So, if we going to go down the development route, I'd like to see (Hartlett already in for Whitnall):
OUT: Saddo, Bannister, Young, (Lappin), (Ackland)
IN: Walker, Kennedy, one or two of Blackwell, Anderson, Bower and Grigg, and Aisake if fit.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I agree with the ins. Not sure they should all come in together though. Progressively over the next month or so should do the trick.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

While it might be only 9 games (11, actually counting the last two), going into the preseason having lost our last 11 with absolutely no confidence will do us nothing. On the other hand, winning three or four of our remaining games will give our guys some hope going into the preseason, seeing that improvement is not too far off.

I think judging by the past 2 games - its clear we still don't have the "young" cattle to compete with other such sides who dominate through the midfield (ie. Hawthorn, Geelong, WCE etc). Therefore I feel a priority pick this year (giving us picks 1 and 3) would allow us to bolster our young midfield stocks with the class of Cotchin/Palmer/Masten etc.

4 wins that would take us to 11th/12 on the ladder would be a waste I feel - Im aware that the Hawks won their final 4/5 games last season, which lead into a successfull 2007 - but IMHO we are nowhere near their level yet. Our midfield really needs to be adressed this draft where there isn't as much depth as there was in the previous draft.

IMO we NEED to take advantage of the Priority Pick system. That was originally put in place to help teams like us.

 

[recently blue]

I'm all for it. I'd like to see Benjamin in too.

 

[HBF]

I'm all for it. I'd like to see Benjamin in too.

Later in the season perhaps. Shows glimpses, but he is very much a project player, and I suspect he'll debut later next season, along with Hampson.

 

[walkers a legend]

i think bower should get a run for rest of season he seems to be an emergency every week and give kennedy atleast five more games

 

[blues4flag]

I think judging by the past 2 games - its clear we still don't have the "young" cattle to compete with other such sides who dominate through the midfield (ie. Hawthorn, Geelong, WCE etc). Therefore I feel a priority pick this year (giving us picks 1 and 3) would allow us to bolster our young midfield stocks with the class of Cotchin/Palmer/Masten etc.

4 wins that would take us to 11th/12 on the ladder would be a waste I feel - Im aware that the Hawks won their final 4/5 games last season, which lead into a successfull 2007 - but IMHO we are nowhere near their level yet. Our midfield really needs to be adressed this draft where there isn't as much depth as there was in the previous draft.

IMO we NEED to take advantage of the Priority Pick system. That was originally put in place to help teams like us.

I understand what your saying, but I think it's more a problem of lack of experience as opposed to lack of talent. When you consider:

Anderson
Bower
Hartlett
Jackson
Austin
Benjamin
Edwards
Flint
Grigg
Hampson
Jacobs
Aisake

that's 12 guys who are either yet to debut or have played 5 games or less (not including Jameison, Raso and Young, who IMO won't be part of our future). Say we win 3 more games, which will get us at the very worst picks 4 (which can use on a gun young mid) and 21, another two quality kids, not including the more speculative third and fourth round picks. At worst, you'd think a third will make it, which is another 5 or 6 young players to add to our starting 22. I believe we have the players, all they need is time and experience to get there.

For that reason, I agree with playing the kids for the remainder of the season - however, I'm completely against tanking. If we can get half a dozen games into guys like Kennedy, Grigg, Aisake, Anderson, Bower etc. (not all, but hopefully at three) in the remaining nine games, and if they can play in a few wins, that'll do a lot for their confidence and the confidence of the playing group.

 

[BlueBelle]

We are lacking experience not talented kids.

80% of our list are talented kids!!!!!!

 

[Thrawn]

I'm all for trying out different kids and seeing what they can do, but at the same time I want the team to at least try and win some games. None of this tanking nonsense please.

 

[one_twelve112]

Investing some gametime in the kids now will benefit the team in the longterm but may result in some serious thumpings in the coming weeks. The Pies have debuted 9 players this year, I can't see any reason why we should give a couple more of our youngsters a run given the situation we're in.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I also feel that if we follow this plan and end up obtaining the priority pick, pick #2 can be used to lure a CLASS player to the club.

I know many of you are against using high draft picks - when trading for players, but a Chris Judd would definatley warrant a #2 selection in my book.

 

[blues4flag]

I also feel that if we follow this plan and end up obtaining the priority pick, pick #2 can be used to lure a CLASS player to the club.

I know many of you are against using high draft picks - when trading for players, but a Chris Judd would definatley warrant a #2 selection in my book.

It'll take more than a number 2 pick to get Judd. Proven gun, arguably best player in the AFL, for a draftee who might or might not make, and almost definitely won't be as good as Judd.

 

[Nightwolf]

Tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank..

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank..

You should be proud !

we're taking the Hawthorn approach - tank all our games for Priority Picks, Trade some senior players (ala. Fev)

But ... we're not going to whore ourselves out to another state and alienate our members and history.

 

[bibi01]

IMO, no players should be handed a carlton jumper, just because they have been drafted to the club, every player should be made to earn their first game.

in saying this, the current afl system does not cater too well for this approach.

i would like to see how our younger players go at afl level, but agree we need to have a staggered approach to blooding our young players.

we also need to make decisions on the likes of bannister, saddington etc. Are they in our 2008 pans
Yes- then play them if their form warrants
No- then do not play then at afl if there is a kid in better form.

lets not forget
anderson and jackson- injured while playing afl
grigg, edwards, aisake and flint (2006)- injured the week or 2 prior to an afl call up.

we need to be smart in how we manage our kids. each player handles situations differently, we need to recognise who may be able to step up and who still needs time.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

IMO, no players should be handed a carlton jumper, just because they have been drafted to the club, every player should be made to earn their first game.

If that was the case the same rule must apply - every player should deserve their spot in our 22.

Currently, if this mentallity was in place - we'd only have 4-5 players selected automatically every week.

Also; Edwards, Aisake and Grigg would be in the squad already...

 

[Mayesy_23]

Great plan. Just need to add Voss as either an assistant or a senior coach next year.

 

[Bluebear]

Tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank..

News just in.

Gibbs, Murphy, Setanta and Simpson all being rested due to "fatigue" and Carrazzo out with a case of leather poisoning.

Carlton have received approval to play some under 16's this week, and have eased in betting for Sunday's clash to $1.75.
Dees still at $4.

 

[bibi01]

If that was the case the same rule must apply - every player should deserve their spot in our 22.

Currently, if this mentallity was in place - we'd only have 4-5 players selected automatically every week.

Also; Edwards, Aisake and Grigg would be in the squad already...

i agree every player should deserve their spot in the 22, hence my next line in the original post

"in saying this, the current afl system does not cater too well for this approach."

if we were able to 'seriously' implement this approach then we would have more than 4 or 5 as things may not have got to this stage/

 

[reg_lower91]

Hello all.

Now this idea is going to sound somewhat "wrong" for all of you diehard Carlton supporters - and more sympathetic I could not be.

However, after watching our side defeat the Doggies and Port Adelaide, and then again watching us succumb to the Hawks and Fremantle in embarresing displays of football, I feel we should just endorse a "youth" policy for the remaining 9 games of season 2007.

By "youth" policy I mean:

• Play Shaun Grigg
• Play Adam Hartlett as a defender as a replacement for Saddington
• Play Kennedy as a forward as a replacement for Whitnall
• Play Joey Anderson
• Play Luke Blackwell etc

Play as many of the kids as possible and give them a taste of senior AFL football. I feel that this approach will have 3 very beneficial outcomes.;

1. We get games into our youth, and give them a chance to test themselves in the senior ranks.
2. We manage to score a priority pick (assuming that we win no more games this season, due to the inexperience of the kids in our side) - this allows us to add a Trent Cotchin to our midfield ranks for season 2008 - a HUGE bonus, as well as another high draft pick such as Grimes/Masten/Kruezer etc.
3. Pagan doesnt meet Pratts expectation of 10 wins - and therefore we obtain a new coach for season 2008 - preferrably a "new generation" coach who knows about the modern game.

Now I know this idea goes against a lot of your thoughts on here, but in all honesty - I am tired of hearing the same old argument of "but too many losses can shatter the confidence of the kids" - while this may be true, it really is only 9 games. And at the same time it gives us a better chance for success in 2008 (ie. new senior coach, new high midfield draft picks.)

Short term pain, for long term gain.

i tell ya what, im pushing for that idea of c4 being our coach next year... nice work m8