List Mgmt. Calling All Armchair List Managers: Give Us Your Rebuild

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I think 5 years is being optimistic. When we won the 2017 flag JR8 had been playing 10 years, Cotchin 9 years and Dusty 7 years.

Hawks last flag 9yrs ago and still don't look anywhere near it.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

First things first we need to address the out of contract players this year.
Miller - has the rest of the season to prove that he has a long term future. After 7 years on the list, the opportunity is now there to prove that he is a long term KPD option to partner with Gibcus and Young moving forward.
Prestia - should be final season if we're being honest.
Martin - the call is his, owed us nothing and if he wants to go elsewhere then let him go and take the compo pick and use it wisely, either draft itself or part of packaging up with other picks to get better picks.
Grimes - see Prestia
Ralphsmith - like Miller has the rest of the season to prove he has a long term future.
Graham - ideally he steps up and becomes a part of our midfield moving forward, if not then hopefully he can draw us a good compo pick as a free agent.
Ross - appears to be getting a chance in the midfield with Hopper hurt, if he can become a cog in the middle or wings he stays for 2-3 years
Trezise - has shown plenty since being picked up and has worked his way back into the side, has the opportunity now to cement a spot. Re-sign 2-3 years
Smith - young defender who missed most of last year, but has started the 2024 season showing good signs, if he keeps improving 1-2 years wouldn't hurt at minimum money
McIntosh - one of the big dividers on the list people either love him or hate him. Depending on other retirements/trades/free agency moves, I wouldn't be against keeping him another season as depth. He won't be on big coin so no harm keeping him.
Baker - like Martin, the call is his, if he gets an offer like Brandon did to head to the Suns that's hard to knock back then we should maybe look at cashing in while his value is at its best. Would get us a top 30 pick and possibly a young player that fills another hole in a package deal
Pickett - a lot depends on his court case, but ideally he gets to 100 games for father/son rights and we can make a decision at seasons end whether he remains.
Colina - at this stage you'd have to say time to cut out losses and move on.
Coulthard - injury has put him behind the rest in the pecking order, but he should get a look it at some stage, another who has a lot to prove before seasons end.
M.Rioli - Yze seems to be a fan of what he brings to the forward line defensively, would be nice to see some more impact offensively in the way Pickett impacts at Melbourne, can see him getting another 2 years at this stage.
Lefau - not as raw as Colina or Hayes-Brown, but it was clear yesterday, that he isn't quite ready for AFL, hopefully the taste he got drives him to keep improving, could see him re-rookied at seasons end.
Cumberland - another who divides opinion, some want him in because of what he can do offensively, while others want to see a more rounded game before he gets another shot, in the same boat as Ralphsmith, needs a big 2024 to remain
Mansell - another who seems to have become a Yze favourite with his work ethic over summer, still needs to show consistent form but at this stage should get another 1-2 years.
Naismith - for me this depends on 1. how his body holds up & 2. how Ryan develops as a ruckman. Wouldn't be against a 1 year deal as insurance.
Ryan - like Cumberland & Ralphsmith Ryan needs to have a big year. He needs to prove that he is a capable ruckman at senior level. He doesn't need to be as good as Nankervis is, but he needs to show he can be our number 1 ruck for when Nankervis retires
Campbell - started the season strong and should get rewarded with a senior spot at seasons end if he continues. 2 years no drama at this stage
Green - 2nd year in the system and doesn't really impact the game that much needs a big 2024 also.
Dow - high hopes in the summer have cooled a little with a slow start to the season. Yze seems to be giving him a good chance to prove he belongs but needs to start showing more than he is. Could get a 2 year deal at a bargain price if he steps up.
Nankervis - should be re-signed as a priority as he is clearly our best ruckman still and also captain of the club. Turns 30 this year so a 2-3 year deal could see him through to the end of his career.

In summary plenty that need to show something to remain, while some older guys have big calls to make and others may have their calls made for them, before being given the opportunity to make the announcement themselves.

As far as trades & free agency go, for mine this isn't the time to be chasing any more big money big name recruits. Finding some young but ready to go players who can come in and fill holes would be handy. For example if Baker headed to Fremantle, targeting Josh Treacy as a long term KPF option would be where I'd be aiming, unless Fremantle offers up one of their first round picks. If he wanted to go to WCE, then their 2nd round pick and a player or a package of picks would be what I'd hope we'd chase, as WCE aren't giving up a likely top 2 pick for Baker no matter how much some might want it.

Another option that our draft hand could allow us to target is Will Phillips at North, a former top 3 pick who has had to deal with Covid and Glandular fever in his 3 completed seasons which has hindered his development, and with North having a swag of young top end talent, he could be one that looks for opportunity elsewhere.

So getting Treacy & Phillips to replace Baker and a draft pick would address some holes in our list, while also allowing us to maintain a good draft hand, that we could hopefully wheel and deal into another crop of 4-5 top 30 kids at the draft table. At this stage we're likely to have access to a top 10 pick, possibly even top 5. With some smart trading we could end up with a late first and 2-3 picks in the 20-30 range that would give us a nice injection of young talent to keep building the list back up.

Ideally I'd like to see us heading into 2025 with an experienced core of Martin Lynch Vlastuin D.Rioli Short Taranto Nankervis Hopper Broad Graham Bolton Baker Balta & Ross that we build around with kids that have either stepped up this year or a handful of new draftees added at seasons end. IMO that would allow us to remain competitive while still giving plenty of opportunity to the next generation of talent to come through.

Been on the Treacy train for awhile now.Be better than kozi.

 

[_RT_]

Been on the Treacy train for awhile now.Be better than kozi.

Yep, I wasn't as big a fan, but the way he has come back this season, with a bigger body and looking more impressive moving around the forward line, if Baker was to chose Fremantle for 2025, then he is one I'd be pushing for as part of any deal instead of draft picks, as we've got a good hand already in the draft.

 

[SA_Tiger11]

6-8 picks inside the top 20 in the next 3 seasons should do the trick.

Certainly can be done as well.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Yep, I wasn't as big a fan, but the way he has come back this season, with a bigger body and looking more impressive moving around the forward line, if Baker was to chose Fremantle for 2025, then he is one I'd be pushing for as part of any deal instead of draft picks, as we've got a good hand already in the draft.

I'm a bit more greedy.Think Freo need him more for Leadership.Treacy & 2nd for Bakes.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

you start tomorrow!

ON to it!

 

[_RT_]

I'm a bit more greedy.Think Freo need him more for Leadership.Treacy & 2nd for Bakes.

We already own their 2nd and 3rd round picks. Maybe we can get their 2025 R2 pick and get an extra pick for that draft and spread the talent injection across a couple of years.

Anyway it's all hopes and dreams at the moment until we get confirmation that Baker wants out.

 

[DickieKnee]

Hawks last flag 9yrs ago and still don't look anywhere near it.

In reality it's gonna be at least 5 years until we are a finals competitor. Grimes, Prestia probably retire this year. Then we've got Lynch, Dusty, Kmac, Pickett in their twilight years and non of our youngsters are setting the world on fire.

 

[db26]

To me the most important thing right now is backing in the coach to see out the rebuild, don't wanna see some half-assed s**t of "well you had 3-4 few years off ya go" - we were willing to commit with Hardwick long term and it paid off. We should do the same with Yze and put the right people around him to get the most of the players.

correct and needs to be backed on his decisions if that's dropping the veterans so be it. Still not happy why club could not find a position end of year for Balme to mentor him no better person in footy.

 

[beema limapep]

If they wanted to go I'd trade:-

Baker for a late first
Graham for a late second
Dusty for start of second round compo
Bolton for two firsts.
Broad for a late second.

Retire/delist Grimes, Prestia, MacIntosh, Ralphsmith + 2

Senior players left to guide the kids - Short, Rioli, Taranto, Hopper, Lynch, Nank, Vlastuin, Balta, Pickett.

Draft picks (as an example):-
3, 5, 12, 14, 15, 19, 31, 33, 34, 39.

Draft 2 key forwards, 1 key back, 6 mids and 2 rucks.

Target 1 best free agent to help the kids come through.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

In reality it's gonna be at least 5 years until we are a finals competitor. Grimes, Prestia probably retire this year. Then we've got Lynch, Dusty, Kmac, Pickett in their twilight years and non of our youngsters are setting the world on fire.

5yrs is alot better than the hawks rebuild.Id take it atm.
Hopefully 4 of the class of 21 make it and we get 90% of our draftees right in this draft.
Minor concern that we haven't replaced Clarke yet.

 

[TigerImposter]

correct and needs to be backed on his decisions if that's dropping the veterans so be it. Still not happy why club could not find a position end of year for Balme to mentor him no better person in footy.

Balme and Yze hate each other apparently it stems back to during Balme’s tenure at Melbourne when Yze was playing under him.

 

[TigerImposter]

If they wanted to go I'd trade:-

Baker for a late first
Graham for a late second
Dusty for start of second round compo
Bolton for two firsts.
Broad for a late second.

Retire/delist Grimes, Prestia, MacIntosh, Ralphsmith + 2

Senior players left to guide the kids - Short, Rioli, Taranto, Hopper, Lynch, Nank, Vlastuin, Balta, Pickett.

Draft picks (as an example):-
3, 5, 12, 14, 15, 19, 31, 33, 34, 39.

Draft 2 key forwards, 1 key back, 6 mids and 2 rucks.

Target 1 best free agent to help the kids come through.

Fxxk Short off as he’s a turnover merchant.

 

[DickieKnee]

In reality it's gonna be at least 5 years until we are a finals competitor. Grimes, Prestia probably retire this year. Then we've got Lynch, Dusty, Kmac, Pickett in their twilight years and non of our youngsters are setting the world on fire.

Yep we really need to nail our first round picks especially the low picks. We need kids who look like they are going to be A graders from day 1. Lids, Cotchin, Dusty types.

 

[Sol23]

If they wanted to go I'd trade:-

Baker for a late first
Graham for a late second
Dusty for start of second round compo
Bolton for two firsts.
Broad for a late second.

Retire/delist Grimes, Prestia, MacIntosh, Ralphsmith + 2

Senior players left to guide the kids - Short, Rioli, Taranto, Hopper, Lynch, Nank, Vlastuin, Balta, Pickett.

Draft picks (as an example):-
3, 5, 12, 14, 15, 19, 31, 33, 34, 39.

Draft 2 key forwards, 1 key back, 6 mids and 2 rucks.

Target 1 best free agent to help the kids come through.

I like it.
I’d throw shorty up for trade aswel- he’s got value atm but he’s also pretty replaceable.

 

[rammmbo]

Ok my rebuild would require yze hopper Tarranto prestia be removed or traded out and under no circumstances do we ever recruit a player who is slow or under 190kgs 85kg .All players must be able to jump more than 700mm off the ground .Being able to play football is a must as well .

 

[db26]

Balme and Yze hate each other apparently it stems back to during Balme’s tenure at Melbourne when Yze was playing under him.

Strange that because Balme was full of praise for him when appointed and during the process.

 

[TigerImposter]

Strange that because Balme was full of praise for him when appointed and during the process.

Balme was excluded from the process though and has been moved on.




Although he was Melbourne coach when the teenaged Adem Yze was recruited to the Demons, Balme was not included in the coaching process to find Damien Hardwick’s replacement. He was not explicitly told, but it became clear over the pre-season he would no longer sit in the coaches’ box on match days.

“I’m not really part of match committee any more,” said Balme, “and they made a conscious decision not to have me involved [with Yze’s appointment] and I accepted that.”

 

[db26]

Balme was excluded from the process though and has been moved on.




Although he was Melbourne coach when the teenaged Adem Yze was recruited to the Demons, Balme was not included in the coaching process to find Damien Hardwick’s replacement. He was not explicitly told, but it became clear over the pre-season he would no longer sit in the coaches’ box on match days.

“I’m not really part of match committee any more,” said Balme, “and they made a conscious decision not to have me involved [with Yze’s appointment] and I accepted that.”

I remember hearing him on sen 1116 or something.

This Balme exit looks messy to me , don't like it one bit for a bloke that transformed our footy department seems like are few people not on the same page.

 

[Madtiger2006]

We have enough young talent to build on. Pretty competitive. Bring in more kids

 

[Wavvey]

It’s really very simple. Draft high end kids with top selections. It’s not a surprise we drafted Cotchin, Dusty ect with top draft picks then became good eventually. It’s how the system is meant to work lol

 

[Mr Magic]

Ok. Like most of us I’m calling it. We are nowhere near it.

Yes I know it’s early in the season, but losing sucks and I can’t see us winning the next two games. We just can barely play two good quarters let alone four. Realistically 0-5 will see us staring down the barrel of a bottom four finish. The club will be looking at next year and beyond if they aren’t already.

What’s your rebuild look like? How aggressive are we going to be?
A bottom four finish would net us an amazing draft hand. How do we best leverage that?
With a raft of picks we have an opportunity to move up the draft and get some real early picks.

Do we:

accept Baker is gone? (I think he is)
What do we get for him?

see Dusty go to the Suns? What kind of compo pick would that give us? Suns could offer him big coin, could it trigger a high first round pick?

How do we handle the older premiership players? Grimes, Kmac etc. mid season retirements and hit the mid season draft or keep them around for leadership?

Which kids do we get a look at this year? Who is not up to it?

Hopper and Taranto. They were brought in for success. It didn’t work. Do we say to them they can move on if they wish and we will facilitate a trade?

What are the biggest holes in our list and how do we go about filling them?

Who do we trade out or in?

Do your best (or worst)

prepare for some knee-jerk reactions

Tom Brown looked okay on the weekend and needs to get a few more runs to help his development

It is never as bad as it looks nor never as good as it looks

 

[captain cotch 9]

We definatley need 2-3 top ten picks over the next two years.
If that means trading out an established player i think its worth it.
At this stage we arnt winning a flag within the next 5 years but things can turn quickly as we learnt in 2016-17

 

[juss]

Genuinely play the kids and bank a top 3 pick this year, picking up a Harley Reid or a Harry Sheezel or even a Walsh, Ashcroft or Daicos type would do massive wonders for the rebuild.

I'd then look at how we can get into the top 10 again, with any luck, it might be possible with someone like a Gold Coast chasing points. If we could get 1x pick inside the top 3, 1x pick inside the top 10, and then a couple of second rounders inside the top 35, that'd be a great draft haul.

 

[Football Tragic]

I think we need to learn from the mistakes and successes of our recent past.

Strategy #1 - Cut Hard, Finish Low and Play the Kids exclusively
When we decided to go the full rebuild, cutting hard and bringing in 5 players in the Top 20 Picks, we were a debacle. We cut too hard and had no players to shield and guide our young recruits. 4 of the 5 were a bust and so were most of the early picks from the next few drafts. We played Lids in the middle and wondered why he was battered and tagged out of the game.
The strategy was a fail and set us back more than a decade.

Strategy #2 - Build Up a Core

We brought in Cotchin, Jack, Rance, Dusty, Grimes, Astbury and Edwards over a few years. Whether this was through design or accident, I'm unsure but we brought in a Full Forward, Full Back and two gun midfielders. That's the Spine right there. We still had mature leaders to protect and guide these players, but they could learn at VFL Level, then come into the team and develop their craft without being the prime focus and having all the responsibility.

Pathway forward
I think the path is clear. We use our abundance of picks to gain as early picks as we can. We trade out players who are determined to go for quality picks and we use free agency to bring in a quality small forward.

We then use this draft to target a tall forward with our first pick and a quality midfielder with our next. From there, the draft becomes more of a gamble but another midfielder and tall backman would be my next two choices.

We need another core of stars to anchor our team and build around as a foundation. We have a chance to set ourselves up for the future this year with all the picks we have at our use. We won't nail every pick but we need to use this year as Ground Zero and the next few years to layer upon that.

The secret is to not cut too hard during this period. Keep the quality players we already have, to offer leadership and protection for our new recruits.

It won't take us 10 years to rebuild. We have amazing recruiter and player development now. We did not have this in the past. I feel we will rebound quickly.