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List Mgmt. Cam Joyce

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gasometer
  • Start date Start date
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Gasometer said:
In the Random thoughts thread someone posted we took Liam Anthony...nek pick was Rory Sloane....Kieran Harper...nek pick Luke Parker.....

Was he responsible?

Do we just take the good with the bad?
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I think this is Bryce Lewis domain.
 

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Don't rate him at all.
 
We seem to have done pretty well with our later draft picks and picked up some good free agents. But I think we've underachieved with our early draft picks.

Also, we failed to capitalise on the academy system last year by trading with clubs needing points to pick up academy players.
 
some he's nailed, last years draft ehe hit for six. some he's failed, 2011 was a shocker from memory.

certainly the continuing to draft similar players was an issue thats cost us.
 
The Shaft is another Dick who needs to be moved on. :stern look
 
Needs to sign a young star this trade period imo
 

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Good or bad, Im leaning towards good.
The comments about poor drafts though can surely be reflective of not having any high picks. How many of our current players were top 10 picks?
Off the top of my head: Wells, Cunnington, JZ, Higgins, LMac.
The list of players in the teens is probably only slightly longer.

Its a tough gig when you are performing well as a team, and you dont trade into early picks by giving away decent players.

One comment I have, is that I never feel like we win a trade. I would like to feel that a bit more. The Pies got Greenwood for not much, and we paid a big price for Anderson. Id think he could improve in this area quite a lot, but the players he's taken in the draft, Im pretty happy with!
He has also nailed the FA arena. Better than every club apart from the Hawks, Id suggest!
 
His last few drafts have been great. 2010 & 2011 stand out as very ordinary. And I never liked Cunnington at pick 5 in 2009 either. I understand why we went with an all in approach for 2016.

Overall I'd say that Cam Joyce isn't the problem as such, and I'm pretty happy with him.

One issue is the lack of superstars and I know people will say we haven't been drafting high enough to get stars. But too often our picks feel safe. I'd like to see him take a few more risks with draft selections but maybe that will come as we get a few more picks in the next couple of years.
 
the Ziebull said:
For me we need to get rid of the other over 30s at years end

And trade in young guns

Then see how we are placed for the years to come and reevaluate if we need a new list manager
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the problem is, what do we have with any currency that will get trades done? Avg draft picks? If we were to be ruthless and serious about the clubs future where does a ruckman who'll be 29 next season currently at the top of his game fit in to the next premiership tilt? While I'm not suggesting we trade out Goldy, looking at it from another angle, we dont get return from retiring top 22 players apart from salary cap and spots on the list. Does the club seriously think within the next 3 seasons the young guys will develop enough to have another tilt at a flag? Perhaps we can do a deal with the suns, to take our first pick and fringe player for D Swallow given he becomes a free agent next season. But apart from those sorts of deals, don't see us as having any chips to play with at the trade table unless really ruthless decisions are made.
 
Tough to know from the outside:

What priorities is he being given (by coach, FD, board etc)?
What picks were available?
What needs did we have at the time?
What talent was available?

Hard to take to many speculative picks when the guts have been picked from the draft before our first pick and we knew we needed to close the gap. I can understand the "safe" focus. It's probably not unfair to say that the sure bet extremely skilled mids go in the top 5-10 and after that it is a lot harder to pick obvious ones. When you need all your picks to come good that's tough. If we go in to the next couple of drafts with 6+ picks we can be more speculative with some of them.

Edit: BTW, I'm happy enough to be somewhat ruthless but I don't see any value in destroying the list of everyone over 28 for the sake of it. I may be living in a dream world but I don't see a huge drop next year and would like to see us pushing for finals and potentially higher while resetting the list. I think some of us (and the club perhaps) underestimate how much changing of the guard has already occurred.
 
generalleftfield said:
His last few drafts have been great. 2010 & 2011 stand out as very ordinary. And I never liked Cunnington at pick 5 in 2009 either. I understand why we went with an all in approach for 2016.

Overall I'd say that Cam Joyce isn't the problem as such, and I'm pretty happy with him.

One issue is the lack of superstars and I know people will say we haven't been drafting high enough to get stars. But too often our picks feel safe. I'd like to see him take a few more risks with draft selections but maybe that will come as we get a few more picks in the next couple of years.
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Ben McKay was a risky one, and seen as quite a reach at the time. Looks so far to be a good one too. It's about balance I think. The Dogs for example took Christian Howard with their first a few years ago, which was considered a massive reach, were laughed at, and he turned out to be a dud. You win some you lose some
 

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The Dingrel said:
the problem is, what do we have with any currency that will get trades done? Avg draft picks? If we were to be ruthless and serious about the clubs future where does a ruckman who'll be 29 next season currently at the top of his game fit in to the next premiership tilt? While I'm not suggesting we trade out Goldy, looking at it from another angle, we dont get return from retiring top 22 players apart from salary cap and spots on the list. Does the club seriously think within the next 3 seasons the young guys will develop enough to have another tilt at a flag? Perhaps we can do a deal with the suns, to take our first pick and fringe player for D Swallow given he becomes a free agent next season. But apart from those sorts of deals, don't see us as having any chips to play with at the trade table unless really ruthless decisions are made.
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I think we could absolutely have another crack at a flag in 3-4 years. A large portion of our best 22 will be hitting their peak years at about that time, coupled in with some of our kids coming on and throw in a free agent or two. I'm very optimistic about our future
 
Would replace our development coaches first.

The recruiting team is seen as a pretty good one within footy circles.
 
Only Forwards said:
This is actually a good analogy for exactly how little us rank and file actually understand of the internal workings of the club.
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I only know his name because 2 or so years ago I asked on BF. He is always sitting beside Scotts.
 
Only Forwards said:
This is actually a good analogy for exactly how little us rank and file actually understand of the internal workings of the club.
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Its the same in all sports. In relation to recruiting/drafting its never up to just one guy, and you never really get to find out who was really pushing for this player or that player. But ultimately there is one guy who has "GM list management" after his name.
 

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