Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[bungalow_bill]

Wonder if the Hawks will apply for a PP

Will hit the draft hard for a few years and be back up by end of the decade

 

[Boristown]

Correct...if you go through the list of our players 23 and under it is incredibly grim..there is not a single player on the list I can see that will be a “star” of the competition...there’s 23 players on the list below and we will be lucky if 5 have successful AFL careers and play 100+ games.

Love what will day has shown, but he isn’t a “superstar” type of player. Every club has a Will day if not, 3 or 4.

Worpel is the same. Will be a solid 200 game player, but he’s just going to be a decent inside midfielder.

Hardwick is solid but in a poor team like ours will be exposed badly like he was today against Papley.

Damn, what a list of nobodies.

 

[Red Bull]

Yep, Hawks fans are historically huge bandwagoners.

Going to be plenty of pets without Hawks scarves the next few years.

How will the club fund Dingley ?

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Yep, Hawks fans are historically huge bandwagoners.

Going to be plenty of pets without Hawks scarves the next few years.

What can i say. The casuals always jump on the most attractive propositions.

Not everyone breathes footy.

Ive always seen having bandwagon fans as something to be proud of but you do you.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Not pretty, but assuming they all play on, including Burgoyne, isn't it the same number of 30+ players that the Cats will have by round 1 next year (assuming all their players go on)?

Two key differences.

1. We'll likely end in the 8 so in with a shot at the glory.
2. Thanks to trading last October we will likely end this draft having selected 6 players inside 40, and 5 of those inside the first round.

 

[Bradkli]

Today was huge for a lot of people still hurting from 5 years ago. A lot of the regulars itt get more excitement from hawks losing than they do their own team winning. Which is fine btw, im not going to judge.

We suck right now but our list is in a good position to recover with our best players (gunston aside) still 24-26.

Our time will come again in a year or two, its the nature of the beast. Some teams capitalise on their time in the sun, some dont. I just hope we continue to avoid wasting our time up top like so many other teams do when it is their turn.


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

“Our time will come again in a year or two..” cmon mate...you’re dreaming...

we have a bottom 3 midfield and forward line, neither which will get better over the next few seasons.

We also have no replacement for James Frawley who has been a wonderful player for us but he’s just about cooked....

How do you think we will get better when we have no elite midfielders, no key forwards and no key defenders?

the worst thing about our current team is the lack of leadership!! Ben Stratton is our captain...just say that 5 times and let it sink in

 

[hk89]

I really don’t get this logic at all. Burton is the ultimate utility and can play in all parts of the ground.

Problem is that Burton is a jack of all trades , master of none. He's been in the system for 5 years now. He's a good player, but simply hasn't come on from his 2017 season which still stands out as an outlier against is other years. Not backing up in 2018 was understandable, but 2019 still wasn't at 2017 levels, and so far 2020 isn't either. He's still got time to fulfil the potential he showed when he won runner up in the rising star, but surely he's looking more likely to be a solid contributor than a star at this stage.

We swapped him for a double AA player who is currently badly out of form. Yes, Wingard is not the type of player to lift a shift team off the bottom, but when a team is playing well he looks a million dollars. Just the kind of player that has people dig the boots in when the rest of his team mates are playing like shit. Sure we gave up a handy early pick too, but given Burton looks unlikely to be a super star, and Wingard has looked good when we are in form, I don't think Hawks fans are shedding too many tears over this. Keep in mind Burton was an Adelaide boy with a SA girlfriend. There was no certainty we were going to keep him going forward anyway.

 

[Pinnell]

Today was huge for a lot of people still hurting from 5 years ago. A lot of the regulars itt get more excitement from hawks losing than they do their own team winning. Which is fine btw, im not going to judge.

We suck right now but our list is in a good position to recover with our best players (gunston aside) still 24-26.

Our time will come again in a year or two, its the nature of the beast. Some teams capitalise on their time in the sun, some dont. I just hope we continue to avoid wasting our time up top like so many other teams do when it is their turn.


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

A year or two? Still delusional

 

[Gavin Excell]

Sicily shits on Burton. And Scrismhaw has more upside than Burton too.

Unless Burton can play as an inside midfielder, he’s not a big loss!

Nah

Burton Is a very good footballer

 

[Gavin Excell]

Today was huge for a lot of people still hurting from 5 years ago. A lot of the regulars itt get more excitement from hawks losing than they do their own team winning. Which is fine btw, im not going to judge.

We suck right now but our list is in a good position to recover with our best players (gunston aside) still 24-26.

Our time will come again in a year or two, its the nature of the beast. Some teams capitalise on their time in the sun, some dont. I just hope we continue to avoid wasting our time up top like so many other teams do when it is their turn.


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

A year or two?

 

[Bradkli]

Nah

Burton Is a very good footballer

Our supporters are so delusional..they still try to justify the Omera trade and think it was a good trade...

 

[Great8]

Our time will come again in a year or two,

 

[WWSD]

Nah

Burton Is a very good footballer

Is he now? Has he improved? When he played for Hawthorn, he was labeled as a half back flanker who doesn’t play on an opponent.

 

[hk89]

Two key differences.

1. We'll likely end in the 8 so in with a shot at the glory.

Hard to see you winning a prelim though, but who knows given the wildcard nature of the season. Maybe Geelong will be COVID free by then, and they can play it down there.

2. Thanks to trading last October we will likely end this draft having selected 6 players inside 40, and 5 of those inside the first round.

Sure, if you pick well it might be ok, but you've probably got more of your high volume contributors in your 30+ bracket than we do. For want of a better measure, using supercoach averages for this year (not sure if it includes this round), none of our top 5 is in the 30+ age bracket by round 1 next year. 3 of your 5 will be, and Duncan was only 3 months off making it 4/5.

Age wise you are worse off than us because we've already moved the load to younger players in a way Geelong as not. The last 4 weeks doesn't have a lot to do with falling off a massive age cliff, it is a bunch of players playing poorly, across the entire age range (and yes some are falling off the age cliff, but out of form (or injured) sub-30 year olds is a bigger problem for us).

 

[Gavin Excell]

Is he now? Has he improved? When he played for Hawthorn, he was labeled as a half back flanker who doesn’t play on an opponent.

He's always been a good player and good for Port too.
Not sure why you want to diminish him as a player

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

A year or two? Still delusional

A year or two?

Yeah why not. Laugh at me if you like it doesn't bother me, nothing wrong with being optimistic. Our best players are still at a good age (Sicily, Wingard, JOM, Mitchell) and we are not as desperate for kids as people make out. Once Burgoyne, Frawley, Smith, Shiels and Bruest retire it isn't like we are going to be nothing but kids.

Things change fast in this game.

I get it. I know Big Footy love to make definitive, aggressive statements with no accountability, but we will be fine.

 

[bigboysdontcry]

Correct...if you go through the list of our players 23 and under it is incredibly grim..there is not a single player on the list I can see that will be a “star” of the competition...there’s 23 players on the list below and we will be lucky if 5 have successful AFL careers and play 100+ games.

Love what will day has shown, but he isn’t a “superstar” type of player. Every club has a Will day if not, 3 or 4.

Worpel is the same. Will be a solid 200 game player, but he’s just going to be a decent inside midfielder.

Hardwick is solid but in a poor team like ours will be exposed badly like he was today against Papley.

Wow..what a lacklustre list of youth!

Compare that to the bulldogs 23 and under:

Lewis Young (21)
Josh Dunkley (23)
Bailey Smith (19)
Josh Schache (22)
Rhylee West (20)
Louis Butler (18)
Cody Weightman (19)
Ed Richards (21)
Latham Vandermeer (21)
Beku Khamis (20)
Patrick Lipinski (22)
Callum Porter (21)
Fergus Green (23)
Aaron Naughton(20)
Bailey Williams (22)
Brad Lynch (23)
Riley Garcia(19)
Lachie Young(21)
Jordan Sweet(20)
Ryan Gardener(23)
Tim English(22)

All have played AFL games except for 3 players on that list and majority are in best 22.

 

[David Bondo]

If a grub like Sicily is one of your best players you are in trouble. For a start he's a decent player but nothing special. Secondly his sportsmanship is a disgrace. I'd embarrassed to have him as a face of the club.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Is he now? Has he improved? When he played for Hawthorn, he was labeled as a half back flanker who doesn’t play on an opponent.

Sure, if you listen to the idiots. Similar posters are the ones saying we are destined for 5 years at the bottom.

Burton is a good player and will play 200 games.

 

[WWSD]

Wow..what a lacklustre list of youth!

Compare that to the bulldogs 23 and under:

Lewis Young (21)
Josh Dunkley (23)
Bailey Smith (19)
Josh Schache (22)
Rhylee West (20)
Louis Butler (18)
Cody Weightman (19)
Ed Richards (21)
Latham Vandermeer (21)
Beku Khamis (20)
Patrick Lipinski (22)
Callum Porter (21)
Fergus Green (23)
Aaron Naughton(20)
Bailey Williams (22)
Brad Lynch (23)
Riley Garcia(19)
Lachie Young(21)
Jordan Sweet(20)
Ryan Gardener(23)
Tim English(22)

All have played AFL games except for 3 players on that list and majority are in best 22.

How many Premierships have those players won?

That’s like me simply being happy the Kings have better youth than the Lakers.

 

[Bradkli]

He's always been a good player and good for Port too.
Not sure why you want to diminish him as a player

He’s going to be a very good player. He’s been solid for port since being traded there. Every time he plays, he does his job and looks great with the ball in hand...our supporters are always quick to mention how poor his second year was for us after his great debut season and how is hasn’t improved....he’s still young. He was a big loss and we also lost a first round pick.

Interesting how we never hear how poor Wingard was last season (yes, I know he had a interrupted pre-season) and how poor he’s been this season.

 

[Pinnell]

Yeah why not. Laugh at me if you like it doesn't bother me, nothing wrong with being optimistic. Our best players are still at a good age (Sicily, Wingard, JOM, Mitchell) and we are not as desperate for kids as people make out. Once Burgoyne, Frawley, Smith, Shiels and Bruest retire it isn't like we are going to be nothing but kids.

Things change fast in this game.

I get it. I know Big Footy love to make definitive, aggressive statements with no accountability, but we will be fine.

Perfect. Hope you’re hierarchy thinks the same

 

[bigboysdontcry]

How many Premierships have those players won?

That’s like me simply being happy the Kings have better youth than the Lakers.

Only Dunkley , however, I’d comfortably say there are at least 7 players on my list that are better than the hawks best players 23 and under. That’s concerning for the list moving forward.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Perfect. Hope you’re hierarchy thinks the same [emoji28]

Who knows, I trust them.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Foucault1989]

Is he now? Has he improved? When he played for Hawthorn, he was labeled as a half back flanker who doesn’t play on an opponent.

Yeah, and according to Hawthorn fans he was the second coming of Gary Ayres. It goes both ways, oppo fans underrate and bag other players, their fans wrap them up then underrate them when they leave.