Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[Sonny Hayes]

Are Hawks fans gonna turn their back on Scrimshaw as quickly as they did Burton? He's looking very average.

Was BOG before getting injured against the Giants, 2nd game back from injury and still settling in. Was definitely not his best game tonight and was rushed with ball in hand but he has looked very solid since moving across.

 

[threesixpio]

I love Scrimmerz. Got him for a pack of chips too.

 

[La Dispute]

Oh boy, haven’t Hawks fans moved on quickly from last weeks demolition at the hands of Sydney’s NEAFL side to take the scalp of the mighty 12th-placed Blues.

‘Could this be the firestarter?!’

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Oh boy, haven’t Hawks fans moved on quickly from last weeks demolition at the hands of Sydney’s NEAFL side to take the scalp of the mighty 12th-placed Blues.

‘Could this be the firestarter?!’

meh most still know where we are at as a club, after a month of oppo shit flinging I don’t even blame the ones that are biting back. It’s a shame it’s all this thread is but it’ll just continue as always.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Oh boy, haven’t Hawks fans moved on quickly from last weeks demolition at the hands of Sydney’s NEAFL side to take the scalp of the mighty 12th-placed Blues.

‘Could this be the firestarter?!’

maybe we need a new thread ?

Can Carlton succeed despite gorging on the elite end of the draft?

 

[boncer34]

maybe we need a new thread ?

Can Carlton succeed despite gorging on the elite end of the draft?

Not all teams with top end draft picks win premierships. But all premiership teams have top end picks.

That hasn't changed on the back of one win.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Not all teams with top end draft picks win premierships. But all premiership teams have top end picks.

That hasn't changed on the back of one win.

And for a very obvious reason... It was the only reason to build a list.

Since free agency 2 teams have attempted to rebuild on the run through trade and free agency. Far too small of a sample size to say it can't work despite the fact i think the Hawks are going to need to hit the Draft over the next 2 - 3 years.

 

[HairyO]

Face it, we'd be unbeaten if it wasnt for Covid.

We would be 8 - 1 if Breust didnt get a fractured skull.

So we will end the season 12 - 5. Not too shabby.

Good enough for 3rd or 4th.

 

[threesixpio]

Oh boy, haven’t Hawks fans moved on quickly from last weeks demolition at the hands of Sydney’s NEAFL side to take the scalp of the mighty 12th-placed Blues.

‘Could this be the firestarter?!’

22 out the last 23. Ahhh

Carlton is almost literally the reverse of Hawthorn. And yes this thread is about Hawthorn but Carlton is just such a great contrast when one considers lost building....or sorry I meant list building ...typo

 

[La Dispute]

22 out the last 23. Ahhh

Carlton is almost literally the reverse of Hawthorn. And yes this thread is about Hawthorn but Carlton is just such a great contrast when one considers lost building....or sorry I meant list building ...typo

I’m getting a more ‘two sides of the same coin’ vibe from both clubs at the moment.

Hawthorn are bringing in mature players en masse, but aren’t good at it. Carlton have brought in a plethora of draft picks, but aren’t good at it.

The Hawks strategy was supposed to keep them in contention however, and they are currently sitting 13th - one below the mighty Blues. I think it’s becoming obvious which approach is hurting the club more.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I’m getting a more ‘two sides of the same coin’ vibe from both clubs at the moment.

Hawthorn are bringing in mature players en masse, but aren’t good at it. Carlton have brought in a plethora of draft picks, but aren’t good at it.

The Hawks strategy was supposed to keep them in contention however, and they are currently sitting 13th - one below the mighty Blues. I think it’s becoming obvious which approach is hurting the club more.

One of the key differences is Hawthorn is coming off a relatively recent period of unparalleled success. Losing a generational team with little access to high draft picks for over a decade is a tough position to build from (but obviously a price any supporter would pay). They sought to regenerate the list through trading in young proven talent rather than draft lottery, but they weren't trying to contend every year - they still sought to regenerate/rebuild but through a different path. FA misses and recent results would suggest it has been unsuccessful but the draft alternatives would have produced worse results to this point. Can you imagine Hawthorn's performances with the draftees selected instead of Mitchell, JOM, Impey, Scrimshaw, etc. We'd make Adelaide look amazing.

Good on Carlton (and other long term rebuilding teams) for their list looking in a healthier spot but how could it not? - they've spent a very long time list building with access to high draft picks and trade assets that Hawthorn didn't have.

 

[Pessimistic]

I’m getting a more ‘two sides of the same coin’ vibe from both clubs at the moment.

Hawthorn are bringing in mature players en masse, but aren’t good at it. Carlton have brought in a plethora of draft picks, but aren’t good at it.

The Hawks strategy was supposed to keep them in contention however, and they are currently sitting 13th - one below the mighty Blues. I think it’s becoming obvious which approach is hurting the club more.

Not a huge age difference. I suppose the difference is the guys not playing. How long do Carlton keep the 'young Turks' tag?

 

[WWSD]

Essendon, Carlton, Melbourne and St Kilda aren’t really a good example of how to rebuild.

Really, only Richmond and West Coast supporters can come in here and gloat as they’ve tasted success recently.

 

[Scotland]

I reckon most people would take Carlton's 25 and under group over Hawthorn's.

They just wouldn't take much else.

Same goes for replacing over 30s. Realistically Hawthorn have a better core of players in their prime than Carlton, but they are both middling sides.

 

[WWSD]

Are Hawks fans gonna turn their back on Scrimshaw as quickly as they did Burton? He's looking very average.

Are Essendon supporters going to ignore Dodo’s horrible recruits over the years?! McGrath and Parish are prime examples.

They look very average.

 

[Scotland]

Essendon, Carlton, Melbourne and St Kilda aren’t really a good example of how to rebuild.

Really, only Richmond and West Coast supporters can come in here and gloat as they’ve tasted success recently.

St Kilda built a fantastic list in the mid 2000s and then brought in Ross Lyon who played a negative brand of football. He achieved similar results at Freo with a good list but not as strong.

Carlton and Melbourne are good examples of how to waste draft picks.

 

[WWSD]

I reckon most people would take Carlton's 25 and under group over Hawthorn's.

They just wouldn't take much else.

Same goes for replacing over 30s. Realistically Hawthorn have a better core of players in their prime than Carlton, but they are both middling sides.

Hawthorn have two top 25 picks this year and Downie as a NGA player. That’s three 18 year olds coming in.

Burgoyne, Henderson and Puopolo are all retiring. The list will balance itself out. Whether or not Hawthorn can recruit a highly talented kid with it’s first round pick I’m not too sure.

There are a number of youth on the Hawks list who will get games soon like Maginness, Walker, Jiath and Jones.

The strange thing is, Hawthorn’s youth is not that bad. The problem is that it’s not “enough” when you stack it up against the rest of the league.

 

[Todman]

Are Essendon supporters going to ignore Dodo’s horrible recruits over the years?! McGrath and Parish are prime examples.

They look very average.

Or the fact that they could have offloaded injury prone Joe Daniher for a first round pick.

 

[WWSD]

Or the fact that they could have offloaded injury prone Joe Daniher for a first round pick.

Sydney offered two 1st round picks I think.

 

[Todman]

This video talks about the Oakland "A"s who used the moneyball method.


My assessment: Good players can get you to the finals but you need the cream to get to the top.

 

[satadaynitefeva]

Love that this thread is the genius of a druggy supporting muppet.....

Draft, draft, draft he says. Druggies get a number 1 pick rewarded to them for being cheats and they come up with McGRATH......hahahaha. If you tried for a month you couldn't come up with a better argument as to why the draft is no guarantee of anything......well maybe exhibits Demons, Saints, Blues, Suns......but seriously, McGRATH????

Think about it deeply for a minute. Your club could have picked anyone in the country........and you come up with McGRATH?????? Wow!!!

The epitome of a back pocket plodder, as vanilla as they come, the sort of talent you find in the 40s, not at number one!! Way to kick yourself in the face druggy supporter.

 

[freddy mercury]

Love that this thread is the genius of a druggy supporting muppet.....

Draft, draft, draft he says. Druggies get a number 1 pick rewarded to them for being cheats and they come up with McGRATH......hahahaha. If you tried for a month you couldn't come up with a better argument as to why the draft is no guarantee of anything......well maybe exhibits Demons, Saints, Blues, Suns......but seriously, McGRATH????

Think about it deeply for a minute. Your club could have picked anyone in the country........and you come up with McGRATH?????? Wow!!!

The epitome of a back pocket plodder, as vanilla as they come, the sort of talent you find in the 40s, not at number one!! Way to kick yourself in the face druggy supporter.

Yeah, **** em.

 

[HairyO]

Are Hawks fans gonna turn their back on Scrimshaw as quickly as they did Burton? He's looking very average.

Has had an up and down season so far. But he looks far better than Burton did in Burton's 3rd season (ignoring Burton's 1st where he only played a couple of games).

And he cost us chump change and allowed us to get Wingard.

Im incredibly happy with him so far.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Are Essendon supporters going to ignore Dodo’s horrible recruits over the years?! McGrath and Parish are prime examples.

What do they have to do with Hawthorn?

Hawthorn would kill for McGrath by the way. Being one of the worst tackling teams in the league (soft) you could do with one of the best tacklers in the game.

But enough about that. Let's talk about Hawthorn's quality up-and-coming youth:















Day, I guess.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Love that this thread is the genius of a druggy supporting muppet.....

"You support x team so therefore you can't have an opinion on my team reeeeeeeeeeee "