Strategy Can we play McGovern as a permanent FF?

[Vhaluus]

Perfect.

Like to see our marking mids in Sloane and Lyons also darting out wide on leads as genuine options but also to create space.

Put Lynch and maybe even Hartigan in that group now, players whos job is to either draw players out wide or take the mark if the players fail to follow them.

Every other player should be set up in space behind our bombing players, ready to intercept the hacked kick out or lay strong tackles if they try and run and carry.

Edit: a slight improvement. 1 of Betts/Cameron should be in front of McGovern for the crumb in front. The other should be mid way between McGovern and Jenkins ready for the over the back crumb from McGovern or the in front crumb from Jenkins.

 

[PrideOf]

We've lost premierships purely by being unable to cope with marking wildcards thrown deep forward (Embley, Hunter).

Great to have our version and should definitely be a tactic we use.

We won two flags with forward wildcards as well.

 

[Realslimshady2]

But the Jenkins marks in the goal square aren't contested, they're running back with the flight of the ball where the forward line is usually fairly empty.

Our attacks one weakness this year has been when we've had a congested forward line and we need to develop game play patterns to deal with it. I'd had a lot of faith in Pyke but he just doesn't seem to be making the changes we need.

In situations where we have that super congested forward line the structure should be McGovern about 30 out dead in front, attempting to give strong leads but also able to contest pack situations with Betts and Cameron ready for the crumb. We should have Walker, Seedsman and Smith all out at about 50-60 metres threatening the long goal if the opposition don't man them closely (and if they are manned closely it's taking the congestion out of our deeper targets). Jenkins in this situation should be right on the goal line to help the long bombs avoid being touched but also to lead out strongly if he sees space open up.

I was replying in response to him playing more up the ground (or more time up the ground).
Having him mark outside/on 50 is okay if he then hits a lead inside 50

 

[beartoo]

Problem is Jenkins accuracy outside of the goal square is questionable.

49--19 so far this year. Not that many were Joes the Geese. He's a good kick for goal from near, far and on an angle.

 

[Shaz2012]

What is meant by permanent FF? To me the role is not clearly defined like in the days of Modra. We have pretty much similar expectations of both McGovern and Jenkins when they are both playing from the square. They should both provide that "FF" lead or pack mark, while trying not to get in each others way. For me we have to squeeze Menzel into the best 22. I think he takes Douglas position as a half forward. Charlie Cameron will spend time on the wing and as a forward pocket. So our forwards starting lineup should essentially be:

Menzel - Walker - Lynch
Betts - McGovern - Jenkins
interchange (1 of 4): Cameron

I dont see the need to define McGovern as the permanent FF. He could take that role throughout the day, depending on matchups and who is on song. Being fluid and flexible makes us harder to shutdown. We do have a weakness in that we don't seem to be playing well against an extra floating defender. McGovern seems to be the only player we have that is willing to break a pack. Eddie also does it to be fair. But I dont see Jenkins or Tex really competing hard for that ball where we are outnumbered by that extra defender.

 

[Realslimshady2]

49--19 so far this year. Not that many were Joes the Geese. He's a good kick for goal from near, far and on an angle.

How many from within say 20m?
What is the ratio 40m+ out?

 

[Realslimshady2]

We won two flags with forward wildcards as well.

I often wonder if we would have won 97 if Modra were playing? Would we have been too Modra focused and wouldnt have had that surprise factor?

 

[TheLeftFist8]

What is meant by permanent FF? To me the role is not clearly defined like in the days of Modra. We have pretty much similar expectations of both McGovern and Jenkins when they are both playing from the square. They should both provide that "FF" lead or pack mark, while trying not to get in each others way. For me we have to squeeze Menzel into the best 22. I think he takes Douglas position as a half forward. Charlie Cameron will spend time on the wing and as a forward pocket. So our forwards starting lineup should essentially be:

Menzel - Walker - Lynch
Betts - McGovern - Jenkins
interchange (1 of 4): Cameron

I dont see the need to define McGovern as the permanent FF. He could take that role throughout the day, depending on matchups and who is on song. Being fluid and flexible makes us harder to shutdown. We do have a weakness in that we don't seem to be playing well against an extra floating defender. McGovern seems to be the only player we have that is willing to break a pack. Eddie also does it to be fair. But I dont see Jenkins or Tex really competing hard for that ball where we are outnumbered by that extra defender.

Menzel for Douglas makes a lot of sense given Douglas predominantly forward now.

 

[Vhaluus]

Menzel isnt even tearing up the sanfl cant see him giving more than douglas unless he recaptures some form

 

[PrideOf]

I often wonder if we would have won 97 if Modra were playing? Would we have been too Modra focused and wouldnt have had that surprise factor?

Shane Ellen kicked five from half back and their whole defensive unit was built around Jamie Shanahan at FB. They had no idea what to do with Jars, let alone having Ellen drift forward.

 

[beartoo]

How many from within say 20m?
What is the ratio 40m+ out?

I wouldn't have a clue, but I've seen him kick them from outside fifty and from the acutest possible angle on the boundary line from 40 odd. How many Joes out of his 49 in your estimation? He's a good kick for goal both on the run and set shot.

 

[beartoo]

Shane Ellen kicked five from half back and their whole defensive unit was built around Jamie Shanahan at FB. They had no idea what to do with Jars, let alone having Ellen drift forward.

IIRC Blight moved Ellen to FF. He didn't kick his goals from half back.

 

[RodnyDangrfield]

Here's an idea, move McGovern to the betts role or deepest forward and let Eddie be the Crumber instead of a 3 on 1 full forward, novel idea of using the best mark in our team in a marking contest and the best crumber in the afl the past 20 years at his feet. Tasty...

 

[Samcro24]

IIRC Blight moved Ellen to FF. He didn't kick his goals from half back.

He only kicked one or two playing forward.

 

[beartoo]

He only kicked one or two playing forward.

Oh, okay. My faulty memory.

 

[mattymac]

We won two flags with forward wildcards as well.

I wanted to say this too. We have been very rigid and predictable for so long. Never see those Blightesque change ups that completely throw the oppo structure

 

[Shaz2012]

Menzel isnt even tearing up the sanfl cant see him giving more than douglas unless he recaptures some form

Menzel has been out with concussion. He kicked two goals and was in the best players on afc.com.au. I agree, he has to earn his spot and I am not saying he has yet. But I think he is best 22 and will really improve us compared to Douglas, who is playing his role mostly as a half forward. Personally, I think Douglas gives us more than Thompson now. So perhaps Thommo goes out of the team and Douglas takes over Lyons role and Lyons takes over completely from Thommo. Its a hard call on Thommo who had nearly 30 touches on the weekend. But I just feel he is the weak link now. Mackay and Thompson or Mackay and Douglas from last weekends side for Tex and Menzel and we have our best 22.

 

[Red mist]

Great Hands to Charles on the weekend. He's so clean. Mister Sheen.

 

[PrideOf]

IIRC Blight moved Ellen to FF. He didn't kick his goals from half back.

Nope. He played most of the third quarter playing at HB and drifting forward. And kicking three goals. The move to FF was Jars.

 

[SydCrow]

He reminds me of Hentschel, which makes me sad and happy at the same time.

 

[Red mist]

18 games!! Gold

 

[Alwaysacrow]

What is meant by permanent FF? To me the role is not clearly defined like in the days of Modra. We have pretty much similar expectations of both McGovern and Jenkins when they are both playing from the square. They should both provide that "FF" lead or pack mark, while trying not to get in each others way. For me we have to squeeze Menzel into the best 22. I think he takes Douglas position as a half forward. Charlie Cameron will spend time on the wing and as a forward pocket. So our forwards starting lineup should essentially be:

Menzel - Walker - Lynch
Betts - McGovern - Jenkins
interchange (1 of 4): Cameron

I dont see the need to define McGovern as the permanent FF. He could take that role throughout the day, depending on matchups and who is on song. Being fluid and flexible makes us harder to shutdown. We do have a weakness in that we don't seem to be playing well against an extra floating defender. McGovern seems to be the only player we have that is willing to break a pack. Eddie also does it to be fair. But I dont see Jenkins or Tex really competing hard for that ball where we are outnumbered by that extra defender.

Good point. I should probably clarify what I meant in my OP. Your right these days there's no permanent FF in AFL but I'd like to see McLovin become the preferred go to man in a contested situation rather than JJ or even Tex. If he leads well and has good delivery I can't see him being out marked too many times and will provide a better contest than Jenkins that's for sure. I wasn't at the game on Sunday and haven't had time to even watch the replay yet, but I will tonight and try to pick up where he was positioned most of the time. I'll be at the game on Saturday night and I'll be watching him closely to see his leading patterns. It looks like Tex will be back so let's hope Mitch still tries to assume that "go to man" role he did in Tex's absence.

 

[TheBigTexan]

Menzel has been out with concussion. He kicked two goals and was in the best players on afc.com.au. I agree, he has to earn his spot and I am not saying he has yet. But I think he is best 22 and will really improve us compared to Douglas, who is playing his role mostly as a half forward. Personally, I think Douglas gives us more than Thompson now. So perhaps Thommo goes out of the team and Douglas takes over Lyons role and Lyons takes over completely from Thommo. Its a hard call on Thommo who had nearly 30 touches on the weekend. But I just feel he is the weak link now. Mackay and Thompson or Mackay and Douglas from last weekends side for Tex and Menzel and we have our best 22.

So essentially you are moving several players out of their current role to fit an unproven player who has been out for a good part of the season with a concussion? I agree Thommo probably needs to hang up the boots, but it would be to fit a strong midfielder (our weakest area at the moment).

Our forward line is doing great - we don't need to be chopping and changing it, ruining chemistry, just to fit Menzel. There are other players who are consistently playing good football in the reserves, in key weak areas who are ahead of him. As such, he's not yet in the best 22 and still needs to earn his spot.

 

[Wouldbetackler]

We won two flags with forward wildcards as well.

Shane Ellen

 

[Shaz2012]

So essentially you are moving several players out of their current role to fit an unproven player who has been out for a good part of the season with a concussion? I agree Thommo probably needs to hang up the boots, but it would be to fit a strong midfielder (our weakest area at the moment).

Our forward line is doing great - we don't need to be chopping and changing it, ruining chemistry, just to fit Menzel. There are other players who are consistently playing good football in the reserves, in key weak areas who are ahead of him. As such, he's not yet in the best 22 and still needs to earn his spot.

Yes. That is what I am suggesting. But remember that when Brad Crouch was out of the team, this was the balance of players that we had. When Brad Crouch came in, Douglas seemed to shift to that forward role. I am basically taking us back to the earlier team formation where Brad Crouch was out of the team, but I am suggesting a direct swap - Crouch for Thommo. So if Douglas moves back to that role he played earlier, then it frees up basically that interchange player, who is a half forward. This is where I want to see Menzel.

To your point about our forward line doing great. I am not so sure if we are doing as great as we were in the early part of the season. I know that we are still kicking 100+ points per game, but I dont think we are playing as well. I reckon we were dropping off, one week at a time and that Geelong game is about where we are at. The wins against the bombers and brisbane are paper over cracks. We still need to be rectifying an overall drop off. I think Menzel will add to that and give us something more. I didnt watch the SANFL game, but I read that Menzel did some good work coming up the ground. This will be needed and I think he can basically fit right into Dougies role and do a better job of it.