Captain Judd...

[Donstuie]

Whatever happens, I only hope that everyone accepts the decision whether they agree with or not, and recognise that we've got the best people in place to make these sorts of decisions now.

So if they pick Judd, then Judd's the guy it should be. Same for Stevo, Simpson or anyone else. Let's just trust their judgment.

 

[Beloved]

This would have to be the most ridiculous post I've just about seen.

You find me - a premiership captain, Norm Smith, Brownlow and most importantly AFL MVP medallist (awarded by his peers - which included Carlton players) and a guy that has the respect amongst the whole playing group, - that was already playing for the Blues before Judd had joined them and I'd consider him.

The best 'leader' of a group should be elected leader in anything not just football particulalry if the leader has the respect of teammates or workmates.

"paper achievments".......what a stupid, stupid thing to say.

Chris Judd has done nothing at Carlton but receive 'ooh's and ahh's'. Until he steps onto the field and shows that he is a great player for Carlton, not West Coast, then his acheivements mean nothing to me.

Yeah, he's got the respect of our playing group, but he hasn't done anything yet. This is now, not then. At least play him through the NAB Cup then make a decision!

 

[Beloved]

Whatever happens, I only hope that everyone accepts the decision whether they agree with or not, and recognise that we've got the best people in place to make these sorts of decisions now.

So if they pick Judd, then Judd's the guy it should be. Same for Stevo, Simpson or anyone else. Let's just trust their judgment.

That's how it should be.

None of us can change how it pans out, so I just hope we can all get along after the decisions made, and not go back to the Pagan like bickering of last year.

 

[Thrawn]

If he didn't have onfield results to back it up I would agree with you. However his onfield results are what sets him apart from the rest of the AFL.

Yes, but that's not the issue here.

That he has performed these feats wearing a different colour jumper means little to me. As I said earlier, did Barassi have to prove himself in Navy Blue?

Barassi was a different kettle of fish in a different era where we actually had captain-coaches.

Apart from Simpson, the other genuine contenders have had their chance in one way or another and not been up to the task.

That's why I reckon Simpson's the man.

In the end even if Judd gets the captaincy, I will support it... don't get me wrong. Even if I disagree with it. I'm confident he'll do a wonderful job, but something is tickling the back of my mind on this one and I can't shake it.

 

[Thrawn]

Chris Judd has done nothing at Carlton but receive 'ooh's and ahh's'. Until he steps onto the field and shows that he is a great player for Carlton, not West Coast, then his acheivements mean nothing to me.

Yeah, he's got the respect of our playing group, but he hasn't done anything yet. This is now, not then. At least play him through the NAB Cup then make a decision!

Hit. Nail. Head.

He's not at West Coast anymore, all I care about is what he does with us - isn't that the most important thing?

 

[SS_Fury]

Some questions:

1) If judd is made captain and hurts his groin round 1 and is out for many weeks, is it still the right decision?

2) Do you think ALL the players are so in awe of judd? You dont think there are atleast a few who are possibly over the judd this, judd that, hype that they are a little peeved at it? If he were made captain do you think this would worsen said players thoughts on judd?

3) Judd hasnt played a game for the blues yet. Is it morally right for someone who hasnt been through the lower points of carltons years recently to slot straight into the captaincy?

Im not trolling, but i think if the blues made judd captain without playing a game it MAY not be the best decision for ALL players. He may have support from most of the club, but surely there is someone which has support from the WHOLE of the club? If i were a player, proud of my club and battled through tough times, and bang, we got a boom recruit who gets all the spotlight, all the attention, all the glory without playing a single game and gets the captaincy, I would be a little pissed at that decision. Just my opinion.

 

[Crippa#9]

Hit. Nail. Head.

He's not at West Coast anymore, all I care about is what he does with us - isn't that the most important thing?

You two gooses still don't get it. There is no one at Carlton that has what Judd brings to the table, so your argumeNt that Judd should be made captain after he's proven himself there is ridiculous to say the least.

Have a think for a minute.....this is Chris Judd we're talking about, perhaps the best leader to pull a guernsey on - and your trying to say he needs to prove himself! You still haven't told me one player with the leadership qualities plus similiar credentials that currently plays for us? I'll help you out. None!

You say you don't want to go back to the Pagan days... well that's exactly what will happen if he's not appointed.

GIVE THE BEST MAN THE JOB - NO MATTER WHO THE F**K HE'S PLAYED FOR IN THE PAST! HE'S CARLTON NOW AND UNTILL HE'S FINISHED AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!

fools!

 

[SS_Fury]

hes the best player....leader, well, only the players would know that one

 

[Beloved]

You two gooses still don't get it. There is no one at Carlton that has what Judd brings to the table, so your argumeNt that Judd should be made captain after he's proven himself there is ridiculous to say the least.

Have a think for a minute.....this is Chris Judd we're talking about, perhaps the best leader to pull a guernsey on - and your trying to say he needs to prove himself! You still haven't told me one player with the leadership qualities plus similiar credentials that currently plays for us? I'll help you out. None!

You say you don't want to go back to the Pagan days... well that's exactly what will happen if he's not appointed.

GIVE THE BEST MAN THE JOB - NO MATTER WHO THE F**K HE'S PLAYED FOR IN THE PAST! HE'S CARLTON NOW AND UNTILL HE'S FINISHED AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!

fools!

He was the best man at West Coast! Not Carlton!!!

 

[marcmurphy3]

He was the best man at West Coast! Not Carlton!!!

This is a dumb logic. What do you thinks going to happen? He is all of the sudden going to be a dud just because he changed clubs. Despite not playing a game for us , Judd is the best player at the Carlton football club.

Also lets all remember that the reason Whitnall probably got captain and the reason a majority of this board wanted him captain was simply because he deserved it for service and he played longer for us (I voted Stevens last year BTW).

Look how that turned out.

Don't think that will happen with Stevens but my point is the captaincy shouldn't go to who has played the longest for us (although obviously the guy needs the players respect but Judd certainly has that) or who deserves it the most it should go to the player who is best suited for that job, whether that be Judd or Stevens. i believe it to be Judd but others might have different opinions. All I'm saying though is that this should be the criteria for captain.

 

[Beloved]

This is a dumb logic. What do you thinks going to happen? He is all of the sudden going to be a dud just because he changed clubs. Despite not playing a game for us , Judd is the best player at the Carlton football club.

Also lets all remember that the reason Whitnall probably got captain and the reason a majority of this board wanted him captain was simply because he deserved it for service and he played longer for us (I voted Stevens last year BTW).

Look how that turned out.

Don't think that will happen with Stevens but my point is the captaincy shouldn't go to who has played the longest for us (although obviously the guy needs the players respect but Judd certainly has that) or who deserves it the most it should go to the player who is best suited for that job, whether that be Judd or Stevens. i believe it to be Judd but others might have different opinions. All I'm saying though is that this should be the criteria for captain.

Who knows? We havn't seen Judd in action so it's far too early to tell if he will opperate he did during his time at West Coast.

You make a strong valid point about Whitnall though.

 

[Crippa#9]

Who knows? We havn't seen Judd in action so it's far too early to tell if he will opperate he did during his time at West Coast.

You make a strong valid point about Whitnall though.

Eddie,

You still can't seem to answer my question, whether Judd has played 100 games or 0 games at Carlton, the day he signed was the day he became Carlton's best player - there is a reason why West Coast were such a force and Judd was, by popular belief, the main reason for this - tell me a player more credentialled at Carlton to lead the boys over the next 7-8 years than Chris Judd and I'd happily endorse him.

The fact is there isn't and Judd is the man to do this.

All this bullsh*t talk about him needing to do what he's done in a Carlton guernsey to gain respect what a load of crap! He has the respect of the entire football world let alone those at Carlton!

 

[Blueinblood]

If Judd is made captain it is a disgrace. Are we tuning into the soccer where the best player is the captain

 

[Thrawn]

You two gooses still don't get it.

Playing the man now, huh?

There is no one at Carlton that has what Judd brings to the table, so your argumeNt that Judd should be made captain after he's proven himself there is ridiculous to say the least.

It isn't ridiculous. Because he hasn't. He needs to prove himself as a leader for the club first.

Have a think for a minute.....this is Chris Judd we're talking about, perhaps the best leader to pull a guernsey on - and your trying to say he needs to prove himself! You still haven't told me one player with the leadership qualities plus similiar credentials that currently plays for us? I'll help you out. None!

Credentials are not as relevant because we are discussing him as a leader, not how good a player he is. And whether you like or not he has not done anything for our club yet, so I find his appointment a little premature. Give him a season to actually go out on the field, and lead before we throw the captaincy at him.

fools!

Oh I'm so sorry for disagreeing with you.

 

[Thrawn]

You still can't seem to answer my question, whether Judd has played 100 games or 0 games at Carlton, the day he signed was the day he became Carlton's best player - there is a reason why West Coast were such a force and Judd was, by popular belief, the main reason for this - tell me a player more credentialled at Carlton to lead the boys over the next 7-8 years than Chris Judd and I'd happily endorse him.

Just because you're the best player, doesn't make you the best captain or leader for that matter. You're talking of Judd the player, not Judd the captain. Why should we put him ahead of someone like Simpson who has busted his arse for years, and has already proven himself as a leader in this club? Somebody who acutally bled for this club and has been here for quite some time?

Because Judd has a premiership medallion, and multiple AAs? Or because he's the most gifted player?

All this bullsh*t talk about him needing to do what he's done in a Carlton guernsey to gain respect what a load of crap! He has the respect of the entire football world let alone those at Carlton!

This is got nothing to do with him getting respect, as he already has it. This all has to do with showing himself as a leader on the field, with our team. There's the point you so conveniently ignore.

 

[Thrawn]

This is a dumb logic. What do you thinks going to happen? He is all of the sudden going to be a dud just because he changed clubs. Despite not playing a game for us , Judd is the best player at the Carlton football club.

It's also dumb logic to assume the best player makes the best captain or leader. Not necessarily. And no one's saying he'll suddenly become a dud - but appointing him captain based on zero games and no on field action is premature IMO.

To be a good leader of this club you have to show your leadership on the field in our team, and then maintain it.

If he does become captain, I'll support that even if I have my reasons to disagree with it.

 

[Crippa#9]

Thrawn,

Your argument as to giving the leadership to perhaps someone who has bled for the club is a little far fetched. Sure Simmo and Stevo and the like have bled and fought for this club and worked their arse off.......but for what? another 15th position finish? Have you seen them both lift a premiership cup? win a Brownlow? be awarded MVP - A Players's choice award?

Why award someone the leadership just because they've been a good servent to the club? There are other ways of doing this e.g Leadership group. Have we not learned from the Whitnall appointment? I don't want to sound too direspectful but that sounds like what your saying right? You are basically saying don't give the captaincy to the most capable man, give it to the man that works his arse off. Well in my opinion if your lucky enough to be playing AFL as a job and getting paid well for it you should be working your arse off - this is requirement for every player i'd suspect.

You have the game's most respected player and a PROVEN LEADER choose to join your club but some of you feel he needs to bleed for the club first! What, do you not think he'll get near the ball playing for Carlton? Do you think the likes of Murphy, Gibbs, Walker, Kreuzer - the future of our club - want to see him bleed in the gurnsey before they're willing to endorse him? I strongly doubt it. These players seem to look up to and respect Judd more than any other teammate - this is why, logically, Judd should be named captain and lead our young list up the ladder. After all that is why he chose to play for this great club in the first place - to lead us back to glory.

 

[Donstuie]

How about everyone S'ingTFU and letting the people in charge make a decision, and then accepting it?

 

[Thrawn]

Your argument as to giving the leadership to perhaps someone who has bled for the club is a little far fetched.

Why?

Those who have worked hard for the club should get captain ahead of someone who hasn't done anything for the club yet, regardless of how good a player this person may be.

Sure Simmo and Stevo and the like have bled and fought for this club and worked their arse off.......but for what? another 15th position finish?

"For what" is not really relevant, because regardless the outcome they still bled and fought for this club. It's not their fault the rest of the team was shit.

Have you seen them both lift a premiership cup? win a Brownlow? be awarded MVP - A Players's choice award?

No, but those shiny credentials makes one an established player. But the best leader ... based on, what? How good his resume looks as far as individual accolades go? You seem to be rating Judd as a player first and foremost instead of a leader.

Why award someone the leadership just because they've been a good servent to the club?

It's not just being a good servant - it's showing good to great leadership through good and bad times, something Simpson has already done.

Have we not learned from the Whitnall appointment? I don't want to sound too direspectful but that sounds like what your saying right?

No. I'm saying it's best for Judd to find his feet first at our club before we go throwing the captaincy at him, giving even more burden, expectation and pressure on his shoulders. And as far as Lance Whitnall goes, at the time of appointment he was the best candidate at the time - try not to look at it through the benefit of hindsight. He was our reigning B&F, showed the most leadership on the field out of anyone else and came off a year where not only he did well, but he lead well from the back half. But let's leave that for another topic, shall we?

You are basically saying don't give the captaincy to the most capable man, give it to the man that works his arse off.

No I'm not. I'm saying it give it to the man that is not only capable, but has been with us for quite a few years - working his behind off to even get close to be considered as captain... one who has already shown he can be a good leader on the field because he's shown it on field in our jumper. Is Simpson not capable enough for you? How about Stevens?

Well in my opinion if your lucky enough to be playing AFL as a job and getting paid well for it you should be working your arse off - this is requirement for every player i'd suspect.

Some try harder than others, and actually mean it with a passion. Those sort of players are in the minority.

You have the game's most respected player and a PROVEN LEADER choose to join your club but some of you feel he needs to bleed for the club first!

Proven leader? Yes, at West coast. What has he done for Carlton again on the field... oh, that's right: nothing.

What, do you not think he'll get near the ball playing for Carlton? Do you think the likes of Murphy, Gibbs, Walker, Kreuzer - the future of our club - want to see him bleed in the gurnsey before they're willing to endorse him? I strongly doubt it.

Because I suddenly think he's not the best choice for captain means that I think he'll fail? Pfft. I'm pretty sure they'd want to see him on the field doing as he pleases, and owning the opposition.

These players seem to look up to and respect Judd more than any other teammate - this is why, logically, Judd should be named captain and lead our young list up the ladder.

And how the hell do you know this? More than any other team mate? They'd respect him for his skills and abilities as a football player, yes, but how about personally? Where it matters when looking at a captain? A lot of the players I assume don't know him as well personally than say, some of the other guys that have been around for yonks. Then he comes and all of a sudden he is everyone's best friend, and is on top of their friends list in a personal sense? Sorry, I don't buy it.

While he may be a fantastic guy personally, saying that he has more respect for than anyone else is a bit rich. I mean, the guy hasn't played a season with us yet. He is in a new environment, let him settle in a bit.

After all that is why he chose to play for this great club in the first place - to lead us back to glory.

Big statement - you're essentially saying the reason he came to Carlton was to be captain. How do you know? From all the interviews I've seen, he seems reluctant on the issue.

I don't think he should be burdened further, just let him play his own game. He already has a lot of pressure on him to perform after injury and make a big statement (which I'm sure he will), but another reason why I wouldn't make him captain is because of the extra pressure. And before you say that he'll be able to cope, we all don't know for sure... and remember, he isn't in West Coast anymore. It is a new environment, with new people, a new coach, a different style of play and gameplan, different expectations, etc.

To assume he will emulate what he did in West Coast just because he's "Chris Judd" isn't very realistic. After all, he is still human.

 

[thylacine60]

Agree 100% with Thrawn. Just wish I knew how to explode quotes the way he does.

 

[marcmurphy3]

its a good debate that seems to have split supporter's.

I'm 100% with BGibbs4.

 

[Donstuie]

I'm not as good with quotes as Thrawn, but I can at least quote for posterity...

How about everyone S'ingTFU and letting the people in charge make a decision, and then accepting it?

 

[thylacine60]

I'm not as good with quotes as Thrawn, but I can at least quote for posterity...

Nice quoting!

 

[Thrawn]

How about everyone S'ingTFU and letting the people in charge make a decision, and then accepting it?

Then that would defeat the purpose of posting on BigFooty, let alone actually having a Carlton board in the first place.

It is a debatable issue at the moment.

 

[true_blue_69]

To give my 2c for what it's worth..... I have to agree with Thrawn on this one.
I have stated it before in another forum also stated it in person to Aissassin (without knowing it was him....lol) at a Saturday Training session.

I do not think Judd should be made captain. Yes he may have the respect & admiration of our players, BUT I feel he should be given time to settle in to the CLUB & get to know the CLUB & PLAYERS!

as Bryce 4 stated earlier & I quote "After all that is why he chose to play for this great club in the first place - to lead us back to glory."

you can lead a club on field as part of a leadership group but you do not have to be a captain to do so.
The times players have ran laps around Princes Park after training with Judd, we do not know that was him leading the players as much as the players just wanting to be like him!!!!!!!! What I mean by that is..... is it Judd leading the players to do this or is it the players just doing it ???

anyway..... let him do what he does best..... PLAY THE FRIGGIN GAME without the pressure of being Captain.

In 12mths time re evaluate the situation

But if he does get the captaincy, it's not something that will piss me off