Captain Vandenberg

[SBI]

No he won't.

 

[bunsen burner]

Clearly Hawthorn are rabble. People wonder whether St Kilda have the cattle but Hawthorn are a bunch of milk cows who are going nowhere fast. The whole list needs a make over - but not the make over from Carson Kressley they would like.

The team needs to be built around Hodge. He's the only definite long term top tier player I see on their list. But why give Hodge the captaincy now? It would probably do more damage than good. The captaincy actually doesn't matter at this point. Hawthorn are so crap that no one captain could rescue them. What you don't want is a good captain who will prop them up - will just delay the inevitable. Better to give it to a Vandenberg, let the team sit on the bottom, pick up top draft picks, then wait for the right time to make big changes at the club incuding installing Hodge as captain. Then build the team around him, the quality draft recruits, and however has managed to swim.

Vandenberg is today's McManus. Decent player, honest battler, but doesn't probably have the skills to be a captain. To be a good captain with his skills, you have to be an out and out leader like a John Worsfold. But remember John Worsfold wasn't trying to lead a herd of milk cows.

And Nick Holland? What's he doing on a senior list?

 

[pazza]

Hodge flew the flag yesterday..something Vandenthug wouldn't know how to do.

 

[Nightwolf]

Hodge flew the flag yesterday..something Vandenthug wouldn't know how to do.

Hodge was one of the worst yesterday...

Bunsen Burner: Not a fan of Mitchell, or Bateman? Fact is, if you read some posts on HHQ, or even the Hawthorn board, people are giving up on Hodge, they are sick of waiting for his potential to show, and a realising he will never be the player us supporters think or want him to be...

 

[Choota]

Clearly Hawthorn are rabble. People wonder whether St Kilda have the cattle but Hawthorn are a bunch of milk cows who are going nowhere fast. The whole list needs a make over - but not the make over from Carson Kressley they would like.

The team needs to be built around Hodge. He's the only definite long term top tier player I see on their list. But why give Hodge the captaincy now? It would probably do more damage than good. The captaincy actually doesn't matter at this point. Hawthorn are so crap that no one captain could rescue them. What you don't want is a good captain who will prop them up - will just delay the inevitable. Better to give it to a Vandenberg, let the team sit on the bottom, pick up top draft picks, then wait for the right time to make big changes at the club incuding installing Hodge as captain. Then build the team around him, the quality draft recruits, and however has managed to swim.

Vandenberg is today's McManus. Decent player, honest battler, but doesn't probably have the skills to be a captain. To be a good captain with his skills, you have to be an out and out leader like a John Worsfold. But remember John Worsfold wasn't trying to lead a herd of milk cows.

And Nick Holland? What's he doing on a senior list?

Pretty reasonable post, to be honest.

Though i'd agree with Nightwolf that Mitchell and Bateman have shown enough to be considered long-term players. Don't agree with his comments on Hodge though. The SCG wasn't suitable for his role at half back.

We're obviously going to struggle for a couple of years yet. Continue to show faith in the likes of Franklin and Thurgood and invest in the draft. What more can you do?

 

[moistie]

Bit harsh on Vandenberg. Whoever captains the Hawks is on a hiding to nothing. Same goes for the coach.

Exactly.

I suspect people will be cursing Vandenberg and Clarkson over the next two seasons, but if things go like many suspect they will (Woodware), Hawks supporters will have a lot to thank these two for.

I agree 100%. We Hawks supporters just have to be patient and soon enough we'll become a powerhouse again.

 

[davey_magik]

You can't expect him to play good in his first match as captain when he has the AFL's no.1 tackler and stopper on him and his team gets absoloutely smashed. I don't know him much as a leader and I think it was a bit strange picking him as captain but I'm sure he will pick up some form soon enough.

 

[Todman]

You should not compare Hawthorn players with Cows. Cows tend to kept upright in wet conditions

 

[Katthawk]

I'll be expecting a cow load of improvement from all prospective, past, and present captains next week. There can only be improvement.

 

[bunsen burner]

Bunsen Burner: Not a fan of Mitchell, or Bateman?

They're ok. Was impressed with Bateman last year. What I'm saying is that Hodge is the only one I see as a definite star. Others will be stars, or good long term players but it remains to be seen which ones will be for Hawthorn. Hawthorns list is so bad it needs a makeover during the next few seasons. And a makeover means most players will be retired, in the VFL, or playing with another club.

I don't see a point in putting Mitchell or Bateman as captain in front of Vandenberg. Much of a muchness.

Fact is, if you read some posts on HHQ, or even the Hawthorn board, people are giving up on Hodge, they are sick of waiting for his potential to show, and a realising he will never be the player us supporters think or want him to be...

I watched bits of yesterday's game and although he didn't lead by example ot get heaps of kicks, he's clearly to me a class player. To just him off one game is fickle, and to judge him against Judd is fickle, and to judge him negatively on his progress so far is fickle. Some players playing in crap teams take a bit longer too.

I don't think Hawk supporters should be too worried about Hodge. I'd just be resigned to the fact that the Hawks will be near the bottom for a couple of years. As bad as it sounds it's not such a bad thing. Picking up the best talent in the country a couple of years in a row is better than sitting mid table with a list that will most likely go backwards before forwards.

 

[mattyc2422]

And Nick Holland? What's he doing on a senior list?

Final year of his (ridiculous) contract. After 2005, he's goooooorn.

Fairly sure the same goes for Barker.

Hello Cap Room.

 

[HIG]

They're ok. Was impressed with Bateman last year. What I'm saying is that Hodge is the only one I see as a definite star. Others will be stars, or good long term players but it remains to be seen which ones will be for Hawthorn. Hawthorns list is so bad it needs a makeover during the next few seasons. And a makeover means most players will be retired, in the VFL, or playing with another club.

I don't see a point in putting Mitchell or Bateman as captain in front of Vandenberg. Much of a muchness.

I watched bits of yesterday's game and although he didn't lead by example ot get heaps of kicks, he's clearly to me a class player. To just him off one game is fickle, and to judge him against Judd is fickle, and to judge him negatively on his progress so far is fickle. Some players playing in crap teams take a bit longer too.

I don't think Hawk supporters should be too worried about Hodge. I'd just be resigned to the fact that the Hawks will be near the bottom for a couple of years. As bad as it sounds it's not such a bad thing. Picking up the best talent in the country a couple of years in a row is better than sitting mid table with a list that will most likely go backwards before forwards.

Excellent post.

The bunson burner is scorching a lot of our own supporters with his words of wisdom. Very fickle, our supporters...

It's going to be a long slog. A lot of Hawk supporters, who i'd thought had accepted our rebuilding plight after such a crap year last year, seem to have forgotten that it's going to be a tough return to the big time.

Next week should see some sort of relief, (at least a more competitive showing) but i'd expect a fair few performances like the one on the weekend - and what more could you expect with so many youngsters in the side?

As for those being blasted on this thread;
Hodge - had an average game on the weekend and we're entitled to expect more from him, but ffs, you'd have thought he was our worst! He had 16 touches (granted a few of them were off the mark) playing exclusively in front of Barry Hall with the ball going straight over his head. Lets face it, his position was essentially obsolete on the day - why not move him elsewhere?

Vanders - Had a shocker. Plain and simple, but he's not going to play that badly again any time soon. He'll lead the club as well as can be expected for the next couple of years until someone who has deserved the right to lead the club ahead of him takes over.

 

[scottydeewah]

Vanders - Had a shocker. Plain and simple, but he's not going to play that badly again any time soon. He'll lead the club as well as can be expected for the next couple of years until someone who has deserved the right to lead the club ahead of him takes over.

We will be having the conversation again next week, and the week after, and the week after that. The guy is a 2nd rate player, at best.

And the **********head who thinks I am still on about 1989 you are just stupid. Go and read my other posts regarding Hawthorn before you make such ignorant comments.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

Fact is, if you read some posts on HHQ, or even the Hawthorn board, people are giving up on Hodge, they are sick of waiting for his potential to show, and a realising he will never be the player us supporters think or want him to be...

Giving up on Hodge? What are you on about? I'm on HHQ and here all the time and don't know anyone who is giving up on him. Sure, people concede it was a mistake taking him before Judd and Ball but everyone I've heard still thinks, or should I say knows, he will be a gun. Speak for yourself.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

We will be having the conversation again next week, and the week after, and the week after that. The guy is a 2nd rate player, at best.

And the **********head who thinks I am still on about 1989 you are just stupid. Go and read my other posts regarding Hawthorn before you make such ignorant comments.

89 Syndrome.

 

[Crawf]

Could not have picked a better captain from the hawks list, he may not be the greatest player but he is a work horse and a player who can get a team reved up!!

 

[Yardie]

Could not have picked a better captain from the hawks list, he may not be the greatest player but he is a work horse and a player who can get a team reved up!!

Agree totally. We need someone who can show that determination is the key. We may get hit to the ground a few times but need to keep on getting back up from the canvas.

 

[scottydeewah]

Could not have picked a better captain from the hawks list, he may not be the greatest player but he is a work horse and a player who can get a team reved up!!

Agree totally. We need someone who can show that determination is the key. We may get hit to the ground a few times but need to keep on getting back up from the canvas.

Honestly this is what I dont understand. Why are you resigned to having a second rate player as your captain because he "is a work horse" or "shows determination"? You guys are resigned to losing and showing a poor performance but saying it is fine as long as you keep at it. This is the AFL not under 9's. Does Crawf not work hard, Joel Smith, Everitt looked like he was going to kill himself last year with his efforts. Honestly I have been talking up your draft picks and publically stating I hope your team can get back on top. But it takes a little more than effort and a good work ethic to make it in the big league.

 

[Spook]

Clearly Hawthorn are rabble. People wonder whether St Kilda have the cattle but Hawthorn are a bunch of milk cows who are going nowhere fast. The whole list needs a make over - but not the make over from Carson Kressley they would like.

The team needs to be built around Hodge. He's the only definite long term top tier player I see on their list. But why give Hodge the captaincy now? It would probably do more damage than good. The captaincy actually doesn't matter at this point. Hawthorn are so crap that no one captain could rescue them. What you don't want is a good captain who will prop them up - will just delay the inevitable. Better to give it to a Vandenberg, let the team sit on the bottom, pick up top draft picks, then wait for the right time to make big changes at the club incuding installing Hodge as captain. Then build the team around him, the quality draft recruits, and however has managed to swim.

Vandenberg is today's McManus. Decent player, honest battler, but doesn't probably have the skills to be a captain. To be a good captain with his skills, you have to be an out and out leader like a John Worsfold. But remember John Worsfold wasn't trying to lead a herd of milk cows.

And Nick Holland? What's he doing on a senior list?

Are you talking about leadership skills or football skills???

As you have never met Vandenburg I think it a bit rich that you (and most other people on this thread) comment on his leadership skills.

Yes....Hawthorn do need as list make over but you can't do it in 1 year.
You also need to see how some go under a different coach. Clarkeson was coached by Pagan and he may have some ideas of re igniting some players we have all written off.

 

[Ramma]

The thing Vanders has to do now is forget that he is Captain (apart from the coin toss!).
He was selected by the players and coaching staff alike for his attributes which aren't all tangible (supporters can't see 'em) - atm he's trying to run around as if he needs to substantiate his position by doing all of the perceived 'Captain-things'.
Just be yourself, Vanders - that's why you were selected in the first place.

And he should be playing as a midfield tagger - get him back to the basics and something he is good at for a while.

 

[Spook]

The thing Vanders has to do now is forget that he is Captain (apart from the coin toss!).
He was selected by the players and coaching staff alike for his attributes which aren't all tangible (supporters can't see 'em) - atm he's trying to run around as if he needs to substantiate his position by doing all of the perceived 'Captain-things'.
Just be yourself, Vanders - that's why you were selected in the first place.

And he should be playing as a midfield tagger - get him back to the basics and something he is good at for a while.

Perfectly Said....I totally agree

 

[bunsen burner]

Are you talking about leadership skills or football skills???

As you have never met Vandenburg I think it a bit rich that you (and most other people on this thread) comment on his leadership skills.

I'll repeat myself. See if you can pick it up:

Vandenberg is an average player. Being a very good player helps towards being a good captain. It's by no means be-all end-all, but have a look at the other captains: Hird, Voss, Reiwoldt, Riccuito, Buckley, Cousins, Treadrea etc. Vandenberg isn't in that league, so to make up for it his other attributes will have over compensate.

It's quite a simple concept: average players have their work cut out for them as captains and in this particular case Vandenberg doubly has his work cut out because he is leading a herd of milk cows.

ps I never at any stage said Vandenberg is a bad captain. How about you stop jumping to ridiculous conclusions?

You also need to see how some go under a different coach. Clarkeson was coached by Pagan and he may have some ideas of re igniting some players we have all written off.

Why would you want to do this though? A flag will never be won with this list. It would just be delaying the inevitable. Finishing bottom for a couple of years is a much better idea from a supporter perspective.

 

[scottydeewah]

And he should be playing as a midfield tagger - get him back to the basics and something he is good at for a while.

That is not a bad comment. He might go alright as a pure stopper.

 

[worthy]

Bit harsh on Vandenberg. Whoever captains the Hawks is on a hiding to nothing. Same goes for the coach. If I was a Hawks supporter I'd rather Clarkson and Vandenberg be the patsies. Two years at the bottom, 4 good top draft selections, a boardroom struggle, a new coach, a new board, a new captain in Hodge, a ray of hope, and a move up the ladder.

I suspect people will be cursing Vandenberg and Clarkson over the next two seasons, but if things go like many suspect they will (Woodware), Hawks supporters will have a lot to thank these two for.

Your probably right, it just leaves a bad taste that we will have to be crap for a while before we become good again.

 

[mocaholic]

His opposite number didn't distinguish himself either just quietly.