Carlton: Are they tanking?

[jo172]

Well after seeing today's Carlton Vs. Collingwood game you have to wonder whether Ratten has been guaranteed the top job so long as he doesn't do anything stupid like win a game!

I mean FFS, you're up, looking good for a win so naturally you take off you're best two players in Fevola and Scotland.

Yet more evidence that all forms of priority picks should be abolished if not the whole concept of the draft itself if it's just going to be rorted like this

 

[Damp Squarie]

I watched the whole game and there is no way Carlton didnt try ...or tank.
Absolutely NO WAY.

Collingwood just shiowed a bit more poise under pressure to stay in touch with the top 4.

 

[GrahamH]

Well after seeing today's Carlton Vs. Collingwood game you have to wonder whether Ratten has been guaranteed the top job so long as he doesn't do anything stupid like win a game!

I mean FFS, you're up, looking good for a win so naturally you take off you're best two players in Fevola and Scotland.

Completely agree, dont suggest this on our team board though. You will get shot down in flames. Wrong about Ratten though, he will be and should be our next coach. We have played some of the most inspiring footy in the last couple of weeks that I have seen in years

 

[Crow-mo]

of course they're not ******* tanking.

Ratten is fighting for his job, and they're shit.

there's no way anyone's promised him the job.

 

[ThePeckers]

of course they're not ******* tanking.

Ratten is fighting for his job, and they're shit.

there's no way anyone's promised him the job.

What if the Carlton board want him to tank. It would make sense. What do they have to gain from winning? Nothing. As long as they get close to winning it will keep the fans hopeful and the board happy.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

What if the Carlton board want him to tank. It would make sense. What do they have to gain from winning? Nothing. As long as they get close to winning it will keep the fans hopeful and the board happy.

There is no way that teams can exhibit that level of control over a game of football, particularly when you are one of the worst teams in the league.

The irony is that if there was no priority draft pick system and Carlton were staring down the barrel of a 14th placed finish, no one would raise an eyebrow if senior players were rested as a precaution or Ratten played a bunch of kids. He would in effect be 'tanking' - not going all out to win - but would be doing it as a sound, practical approach in order to make the club stronger the following season. If Carlton were truly trying to get a priority draft pick then Fevola wouldn't have played at all. Everyone knows he is nursing a thigh injury and apparently had the flu during the week as well.

While the priority pick system remains the tanking issue will continue to raise its ugly head. Every move, every selection and every player that gets sent off for surgery will be highlighted as 'proof' that a club has taken their foot off the gas.

So, by that the logic the priority draft system means that coaches can't do what is in the long term best interests of the club (which might include resting players, trying youngsters, working on new structures and different game plans etc) because it might look bad? Ridiculous.

The best solution I have heard is for the priority picks to only be judged on the first fifteen rounds of a season ie when teams have played each other once. Very few teams abandon all hope that early in the season and the ones who do really need the help. It is always the last 5-6 rounds where the tanking issue gets brought up.

 

[Silvagnis]

Hopefully.

 

[tribey]

I mean FFS, you're up, looking good for a win so naturally you take off you're best two players in Fevola and Scotland.

Didn't Fevola crunch his AC joint a minute before coming off? As for Scotland, he'd already gotten through a power of work for the day, maybe he was spent?

 

[Thrawn]

Hopefully.

No.

Especially not against the likes of Collingwood. Ratten and the players would never do that against them, and you know it.

Didn't Fevola crunch his AC joint a minute before coming off? As for Scotland, he'd already gotten through a power of work for the day, maybe he was spent?

That's right. Fevola was also limping so they had to check him out for a potential serious injury, was only off for two minutes and came back on. Scotland was the hardest worker that day, by the middle of the 4th he couldn't even run and was incredibly fatigued. Leaving him on wouldn't have done us much good, in fact - maybe even a liability. You'd rest him for a few minutes and put him back on. Besides, the players we rotated were doing OK.

The people who are questioning these bench moves, most of them are simply just trying to over inflate such moves in order to show "yes, Carlton are tanking". Any excuse will do it seems, but a little logic and common sense is what's needed. If these same people were actually watching the game, paying attention and looking at the physical state of Scotland and the obvious concern towards Fevola's shoulder and limp... then you'll see a lot of retracted statements.

The first one being topdon in the main "Carlton was tanking against Collingwood" topic of the main board.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Are they tanking?! YES!!!

Has Ratten been promised a job if they lose all the games or promised job regardless?! NO!

 

[Stevie_Crow]

I must admit i had the feeling they were tanking today against Port, they may have just stopped but all of a suddon with about 5 mins to go, the chasing slowed down, the tackles weren't coming and the blocks and shepards looked pretty weak!

They were right in it and then this...

 

[jo172]

Bump

 

[ams4crows]

well it was obviously something like this would eventually arise form within the club speaking the truth...... first time in my life I've ever respected Libba! takes some balls to do what he just did!

 

[Mad Dog]

no-one could be that hopeless without meaning it.

I had dismissed it up until the way Fev was handled late in the Essendon game

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Makes a complete mokery of the whole draft system. Carlton weren't the first to do it and won't be the last. Richmond start doing it from about round 5.

 

[RoosterLad]

What a club they have become. Proud, arrogant and cocky... yet they cheated by rorting the salary cap and now they have tanked for several years in order to get some draft pics.

I read on another forum, that the draft picks should be a lottery similar to the NBA. Maybe the bottom 3 or 4 can go into the lottery and see who does get the number one pick. As it stands, the draft system is a joke and rewards clubs who don't want to win every game they play, while those who want to battle their way into the 8 get ****ed over with a mid-range draft pick.

 

[Dogga79]

Makes a complete mokery of the whole draft system. Carlton weren't the first to do it and won't be the last.

The best solution I have heard is the lottery system. The last 4 or 3 teams names go into a hat to decide who gets the first pick. This gives no incentives to finish last and ruin the last few rounds of the season.

 

[Dogga79]

What a club they have become. Proud, arrogant and cocky... yet they cheated by rorting the salary cap and now they have tanked for several years in order to get some draft pics.

I read on another forum, that the draft picks should be a lottery similar to the NBA. Maybe the bottom 3 or 4 can go into the lottery and see who does get the number one pick. As it stands, the draft system is a joke and rewards clubs who don't want to win every game they play, while those who want to battle their way into the 8 get ****ed over with a mid-range draft pick.

Haha you beat me to it.

 

[RoosterLad]

Haha not by much though mate.

 

[jo172]

I liked the idea where after 15/16 rounds only the team's coming 14th/15th/16th get to have a shot at the top 3 picks.

The catch being the team ranked 14th at the end of the season gets #1 pick, 15th #2 etc.

Also, priority picks must be abolished along with the competitive balance fund.

 

[RoosterLad]

Agree with that jo, delete priority picks.

 

[Mad Dog]

What a club they have become. Proud, arrogant and cocky... yet they cheated by rorting the salary cap and now they have tanked for several years in order to get some draft pics.

I read on another forum, that the draft picks should be a lottery similar to the NBA. Maybe the bottom 3 or 4 can go into the lottery and see who does get the number one pick. As it stands, the draft system is a joke and rewards clubs who don't want to win every game they play, while those who want to battle their way into the 8 get ****ed over with a mid-range draft pick.

I'd like to see the Top 8 picks in a lottery for the bottom 8 sides.......then as normal ....ie pick 9 to the 8th placed side etc.

...and no PPs.

whether sides tank or not........the incentive and perception needs to be removed.

 

[dplggr47]

Get rid of priority picks.

If Carlton weren't tanking, then that means they really are that bad...
2007 15th 4 wins
2006 16th 3 wins 1 draw
2005 16th 4 wins 1 draw
2004 11th 10wins
2003 15th 4 wins
2002 16th 3 wins
...3 wooden spoons and 2 runner up wooden spoons.

not even Richmond have been that bad;
2007 16th 3 wins 1 draw
2006 9th 11 wins
2005 12th 10 wins
2004 16th 4 wins
2003 13th 7 wins
2002 14th 7 wins
2001 4th 15 wins
...2 wooden spoons and omg, made the top 4 only 7 seasons ago. so Terry Wallace's 5 year plan seems to be going well...start strong realising the target won't be reached without more priority picks.

so, can any AFL team really be as bad as Carlton have been? to go through entire seasons to only win 3-4 games? that's gotta be tanking! or, like i said, perhaps they're just really really bad. sure, the club has history, but IMO, they're kinda a waste of space on the ladder; there to make up the numbers; if they suddenly start playing well this season and threaten the top 8, then you'll know that they've been tanking and waiting for this moment, when they finally have the best player in the AFL (Judd), some quality imports (Stevens, Scotland), some not so good freebie imports (Cam Cloke) and enough priority picked/high draft players (kreuzer/gibbs/murphy/walker) to challenge the best.

 

[jo172]

It's been 5 years since Carlton last made the finals. As you have a 50% chance of making the finals each season the chance of them being that bad without a little bit of effort to be that bad is 3.125%.

Make of that what you will.

 

[macca23]

Get rid of priority picks.

If Carlton weren't tanking, then that means they really are that bad...
2007 15th 4 wins
2006 16th 3 wins 1 draw
2005 16th 4 wins 1 draw
2004 11th 10wins
2003 15th 4 wins
2002 16th 3 wins
...3 wooden spoons and 2 runner up wooden spoons.

What really gets me is when they say they would never tank - because they're a proud club.

Those 6 years are really something to be proud of.

132 games

28 wins, 2 draws and 102 losses.