Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

[Gruffles]

I just don't get how people can argue that an employee can make a choice but an employer isn't allowed to.

 

[slashin_velvet]

how is it protecting the game when the other players can transmit the virus even tho they are vaccinated like Jones. Dumb logic

Any driver can crash a car, but a drunk driver not wearing a seatbelt is more likely to crash and injure themselves and possibly others in the process. We put rules in place to lower these risks to individuals and society.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

how is it protecting the game when the other players can transmit the virus even tho they are vaccinated like Jones. Dumb logic

He's as dumb as can be especially when he knows there is a vulnerable person in Docherty in the side. That is my view and I aint changing from that. If it mitigates the transmission it is a good thing. Least the anti vax whackos are a minority

 

[slashin_velvet]

I just don't get how people can argue that an employee can make a choice but an employer isn't allowed to.

something something discrimination

 

[LukeParkerno1]

wonder if they'll be able to open up a list spot for the preseason supplementary draft, whatever its called. the one thats just before the season. worst case, they'll get a list spot for the mid season draft, but youd hope something can be sorted out before then

That would be the most sensible thing forgot about the supplementary draft.

 

[Taylor]

there was atleast what, 12 months before a vaccine was first administered after COVID became a worldwide thing? and Ivermectin was just sitting there doing nothing while people died -

The point at which the vaccines existed should be taken from the point that significant investment was put into their creation. That's the point from which the commitment is made and protected.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

So you still haven't given me a good argument as to why mandatory vaccines are good. If it makes society get vaccinated, not an argument.
Society has been coerced into the jabs they never consented. Thats why there is mandates.

You can't even come up with a good argument and case for its sad

I am not wasting my breath trying to convince an anti vaxxer like yourself. Honestly make the choice, I don't care. But don't come whinging when you are banned from certain things. In general society agrees with the mandates to a degree, we are going to be over 90% that's a great thing.

 

[MisterMarcus]

yes they have and this is what you don’t understand. Most people didn’t have a choice.
When you have a mortgage, career, a job and it’s all on the line what else are you supposed to do. That’s not consent it’s coercion. Those people are forced into getting the jab or they lose everything.

There isn’t a choice with these jabs. It’s fu**en coercion and to push the government bullish of get the jab and you’ll rejoin society is fu**en straw man and stupid argument. It’s like saying take this mdma tablet and you’ll rejoin the boys. fu** off. Give me a choice but don’t punish me for my choice

They won't lose anything.

They should easily be able to get another job at one of the squillions of businesses that anti-vaxxers claimed were going to resist the mandate.

 

[Hakim]

He's as dumb as can be especially when he knows there is a vulnerable person in Docherty in the side. That is my view and I aint changing from that. If it mitigates the transmission it is a good thing. Least the anti vax whackos are a minority

Bro the other players can infect Doch just as much as Jones can. Just because they are jabbed doesn't mean they dont pass the virus. They pass the virus the same as an unvaxxed person does. You'd be well aware that vaccinated can still pass the virus but you ignore that

 

[radiojake]

They pass the virus the same as an unvaxxed person does. You'd be well aware that vaccinated can still pass the virus but you ignore that

vaxxed can pass on the virus
not at the same levels as an unvaxxed

if you're argument is so good you shouldn't need to bend the truth

oh what a shame your alias was discovered

goodbye

 

[mouncey2franklin]

yeah totally not trolling.

you do realise youre a known troll, right? im assuming yes.

So when I share opinions which are the same as yours, that makes me a troll?

What does that make you, then?

 

[radiojake]

So when I share opinions which are the same as yours, that makes me a troll?

What does that make you, then?

mate your username is a troll from the outset

 

[BlueE]

To all the newbies (although I wonder how many may just be returning under a different guise?) to the BF Coronavirus board, welcome! Feel free to trawl your way through the other threads to find a treasure trove of information with scientific studies linked on amazing topics such as:

- Vaccine efficacy
- Antibody titre levels for vaccine vs natural immunity (spoiler... natural immunity antibody levels drop at a similar rate to vaccine immunity)
- How covid death reporting is done
- Vaccinated vs non-vaccinated transmission levels
And many more!

As a bonus there are many discussions on vaccine mandates and debates over the effectiveness of lockdowns.

It may be worth your while reading through these discussions before raising the same things for the 50th time.

LOLZ
Vaccine efficacy for stopping Delta transmission is negligible until after second dose then peaks at around 70% effectiveness 5 weeks after second dose and back to negligible for symptomatic protection three months later. Effectiveness against severe infection or death lasts around 4 or 5 months after second dose, then data shows it worse compared to being unvaccinated.

Antibodies are expected to decrease as wide durable, long lasting memory Tcells are formed. This is only been shown in recovered COVID patients. But becasue there are 6 other human corona viruses including four common cold corona viruses, cross protection from memory TCells people already have, occurs in many when confronted with SARS CoV 2.

These are experimental products (only Comirnaty approved for over 16s), that haven't completed long term peer reviewed safety trials and won't until 2023. FDA have only just ordered nine different heart inflammation trials which won't be completed until 2023-2025. TGA had to admit that TTS that has never occured before after a vaccine is directly related to the COVID injection, but they haven't proved any of the other 624 deaths are not related, even though they claim they're a coincidence.

Because of this it is especially important autopsy or take note of strong signals from each countries reporting adverse event notification systems. Australia's TGA warn there are many times higher than expected rates of heart inflammation especially after the second Pfizer dose in young men and although many countries (US, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, France, Germany, Ontario,) have banned the Moderna hotshot (more than 3x mRNA per dose than Pfizer) or age restricted it to over 30s, over 24s or over 18s because of the serous heart inflammation risks, Australia are still jabbing 12 year olds and over.

In Australia comparison the DAEN (database of adverse events notifications) reports show only 59 deaths total in the last 50 years after 75 different vaccines, compared with over 624 in seven months after COVID injections.

Myocarditis over the last 50 years after vaccinations = 5 cases and /1 death V 487 cases / 3 deaths in 7 months.

Pericarditis over the last 50 years after vaccinations = 5 cases V 1253 cases.

Thrombocytopenia: 23 cases /1 death V 613 cases /30 deaths.

ITP: 9 cases/ 1 death V 102 cases/ 5 deaths.

Thrombosis and deep vein thrombosis: 2 cases V 1349 cases and 27 deaths.

Increased D dimer: 3 cases V 1126 and 30 deaths.

Blindness: 2 cases V 53 cases.

Miscarriages 17 V 78

110 deaths from cardiac events

Many more serious adverse events and deaths including the 236 reports with 134 deaths generally from adverse events after immunisation category.

Safety information & education

This section includes links to articles about the general safety of medicines and medical devices, including how the safety of products i

apps.tga.gov.au

Vaccinated V unvaccinated transmission levels "no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people who tested positive for the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2. It also found no significant difference between infected people with or without symptoms."

No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant

We found no significant difference in cycle threshold values between vaccinated and unvaccinated, asymptomatic and symptomatic groups infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta. Given the substantial proportion of asymptomatic vaccine breakthrough cases with high viral levels, interventions, including...

www.medrxiv.org

When they analysed the data, the researchers found wide variations in viral load within both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, but not between them. There was no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated, or between asymptomatic and symptomatic groups.

 

[H00t]

It would have prevented the use of the vaccines if there was an alternative treatment to the virus. The emergency use protocols wouldn't allow for them.

So while I don't think that there is a known viable alternative, it's also not in the interests of anyone for them to find it to be that there are while trying to roll out a vaccine program.

And you can look at that from both sides. The people who want the vaccines out because they believe them to be the best option for saving lives want as many people to have access as possible and the people who want to sell as many vaccines as possible want as many getting out as they can.

It doesn't really matter than the process of blocking the polymerase of the new drug is almost as good as something already on the market, or that the effect of something else (the I word) is a third better at it than the product it was tested against. Both the options compared to it are cents on the dollar of the new drug price.

I think it is more than a little disingenuous to suggest that doctors and medical companies have been sitting on a potential cure because they would rather push out the vaccine.

The fact is viruses are super hard to treat it’s why despite having antivirals for the flu the recommendation is always get the flu shot. Because the flu shot works significantly better. Same with the vaccine for Covid.

Any potential anti-viral is evaluated on its potential to work against COVID-19. The reason no more is heard is because they aren’t effective.

The most effective drug so far has been dexamethasone. And it’s only effective in severe cases where inflammation is the biggest risk. It’s not recommended in non severe cases as before that point as it’s not effective. And potentially harmful as it can reduce the bodies ability to fight Covid.

 

[dopefish]

Looking forward to getting a third one up me, actually.

That's what he/she said!

 

[projectv]

yes they have and this is what you don’t understand.

You can cry about it all you like but the title of this thread is "player refuses vaccination".

That means a choice was made.

See you on your next alt account!

 

[faible]

LOLZ
Vaccine efficacy for stopping Delta transmission is negligible until after second dose then peaks at around 70% effectiveness 5 weeks after second dose and back to negligible for symptomatic protection three months later. Effectiveness against severe infection or death lasts around 4 or 5 months after second dose, then data shows it worse compared to being unvaccinated.

Antibodies are expected to decrease as wide durable, long lasting memory Tcells are formed. This is only been shown in recovered COVID patients. But becasue there are 6 other human corona viruses including four common cold corona viruses, cross protection from memory TCells people already have, occurs in many when confronted with SARS CoV 2.

These are experimental products (only Comirnaty approved for over 16s), that haven't completed long term peer reviewed safety trials and won't until 2023. FDA have only just ordered nine different heart inflammation trials which won't be completed until 2023-2025. TGA had to admit that TTS that has never occured before after a vaccine is directly related to the COVID injection, but they haven't proved any of the other 624 deaths are not related, even though they claim they're a coincidence.

Because of this it is especially important autopsy or take note of strong signals from each countries reporting adverse event notification systems. Australia's TGA warn there are many times higher than expected rates of heart inflammation especially after the second Pfizer dose in young men and although many countries (US, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, France, Germany, Ontario,) have banned the Moderna hotshot (more than 3x mRNA per dose than Pfizer) or age restricted it to over 30s, over 24s or over 18s because of the serous heart inflammation risks, Australia are still jabbing 12 year olds and over.

In Australia comparison the DAEN (database of adverse events notifications) reports show only 59 deaths total in the last 50 years after 75 different vaccines, compared with over 624 in seven months after COVID injections.

Myocarditis over the last 50 years after vaccinations = 5 cases and /1 death V 487 cases / 3 deaths in 7 months.

Pericarditis over the last 50 years after vaccinations = 5 cases V 1253 cases.

Thrombocytopenia: 23 cases /1 death V 613 cases /30 deaths.

ITP: 9 cases/ 1 death V 102 cases/ 5 deaths.

Thrombosis and deep vein thrombosis: 2 cases V 1349 cases and 27 deaths.

Increased D dimer: 3 cases V 1126 and 30 deaths.

Blindness: 2 cases V 53 cases.

Miscarriages 17 V 78

110 deaths from cardiac events

Many more serious adverse events and deaths including the 236 reports with 134 deaths generally from adverse events after immunisation category.

Safety information & education

This section includes links to articles about the general safety of medicines and medical devices, including how the safety of products i

apps.tga.gov.au

Vaccinated V unvaccinated transmission levels "no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people who tested positive for the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2. It also found no significant difference between infected people with or without symptoms."

No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant

We found no significant difference in cycle threshold values between vaccinated and unvaccinated, asymptomatic and symptomatic groups infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta. Given the substantial proportion of asymptomatic vaccine breakthrough cases with high viral levels, interventions, including...

www.medrxiv.org

When they analysed the data, the researchers found wide variations in viral load within both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, but not between them. There was no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated, or between asymptomatic and symptomatic groups.

I see you've made your monthly outing from the conspiracy board where people don't bother to actually assess what you write and just hit the like button and nod. Gruffles might actually bother reading it, lucky you.

 

[MisterMarcus]

LOLZ
Vaccine efficacy for stopping Delta transmission is negligible until after second dose then peaks at around 70% effectiveness 5 weeks after second dose and back to negligible for symptomatic protection three months later. Effectiveness against severe infection or death lasts around 4 or 5 months after second dose, then data shows it worse compared to being unvaccinated.

Antibodies are expected to decrease as wide durable, long lasting memory Tcells are formed. This is only been shown in recovered COVID patients. But becasue there are 6 other human corona viruses including four common cold corona viruses, cross protection from memory TCells people already have, occurs in many when confronted with SARS CoV 2.

These are experimental products (only Comirnaty approved for over 16s), that haven't completed long term peer reviewed safety trials and won't until 2023. FDA have only just ordered nine different heart inflammation trials which won't be completed until 2023-2025. TGA had to admit that TTS that has never occured before after a vaccine is directly related to the COVID injection, but they haven't proved any of the other 624 deaths are not related, even though they claim they're a coincidence.

Because of this it is especially important autopsy or take note of strong signals from each countries reporting adverse event notification systems. Australia's TGA warn there are many times higher than expected rates of heart inflammation especially after the second Pfizer dose in young men and although many countries (US, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, France, Germany, Ontario,) have banned the Moderna hotshot (more than 3x mRNA per dose than Pfizer) or age restricted it to over 30s, over 24s or over 18s because of the serous heart inflammation risks, Australia are still jabbing 12 year olds and over.

In Australia comparison the DAEN (database of adverse events notifications) reports show only 59 deaths total in the last 50 years after 75 different vaccines, compared with over 624 in seven months after COVID injections.

Myocarditis over the last 50 years after vaccinations = 5 cases and /1 death V 487 cases / 3 deaths in 7 months.

Pericarditis over the last 50 years after vaccinations = 5 cases V 1253 cases.

Thrombocytopenia: 23 cases /1 death V 613 cases /30 deaths.

ITP: 9 cases/ 1 death V 102 cases/ 5 deaths.

Thrombosis and deep vein thrombosis: 2 cases V 1349 cases and 27 deaths.

Increased D dimer: 3 cases V 1126 and 30 deaths.

Blindness: 2 cases V 53 cases.

Miscarriages 17 V 78

110 deaths from cardiac events

Many more serious adverse events and deaths including the 236 reports with 134 deaths generally from adverse events after immunisation category.

Safety information & education

This section includes links to articles about the general safety of medicines and medical devices, including how the safety of products i

apps.tga.gov.au

Vaccinated V unvaccinated transmission levels "no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people who tested positive for the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2. It also found no significant difference between infected people with or without symptoms."

No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant

We found no significant difference in cycle threshold values between vaccinated and unvaccinated, asymptomatic and symptomatic groups infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta. Given the substantial proportion of asymptomatic vaccine breakthrough cases with high viral levels, interventions, including...

www.medrxiv.org

When they analysed the data, the researchers found wide variations in viral load within both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, but not between them. There was no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated, or between asymptomatic and symptomatic groups.

Your source:

" medRxiv (pronounced "med-archive") is an Internet site distributing unpublished eprints about health sciences.[1][2][3][4] It distributes complete but unpublished manuscripts in the areas of medicine, clinical research, and related health sciences without charge to the reader. Such manuscripts have yet to undergo peer review and the site notes that preliminary status and that the manuscripts should not be considered for clinical application, nor relied upon for news reporting as established information."

 

[Taylor]

I think it is more than a little disingenuous to suggest that doctors and medical companies have been sitting on a potential cure because they would rather push out the vaccine.

I think it's disingenuous to frame it like that, because everyone can function in a way that is in the best interests of people and a very small few can manipulate the result to suit their financial outcomes. Especially when that group is in control of a significant amount of digital media.

 

[dopefish]

In Australia comparison the DAEN (database of adverse events notifications) reports show only 59 deaths total in the last 50 years after 75 different vaccines, compared with over 624 in seven months after COVID injections.

That myth has already been debunked. Only 9 of those 624 were linked to COVID. LOLZ

 

[theyellowsash]

It would have prevented the use of the vaccines if there was an alternative treatment to the virus. The emergency use protocols wouldn't allow for them.

So while I don't think that there is a known viable alternative, it's also not in the interests of anyone for them to find it to be that there are while trying to roll out a vaccine program.

And you can look at that from both sides. The people who want the vaccines out because they believe them to be the best option for saving lives want as many people to have access as possible and the people who want to sell as many vaccines as possible want as many getting out as they can.

It doesn't really matter than the process of blocking the polymerase of the new drug is almost as good as something already on the market, or that the effect of something else (the I word) is a third better at it than the product it was tested against. Both the options compared to it are cents on the dollar of the new drug price.

Youre right, theres no way we would develop or use vaccines for disease which have treatments...

 

[Taylor]

Youre right, theres no way we would develop or use vaccines for disease which have treatments...

You've misunderstood. If there is an existing treatment for a disease then the vaccine for it must pass through all phases of testing prior to being approved for use.

If there is no treatment then an emergency use can be issued. As was the case with covid-19.

 

[faible]

You've misunderstood. If there is an existing treatment for a disease then the vaccine for it must pass through all phases of testing prior to being approved for use.

If there is no treatment then an emergency use can be issued. As was the case with covid-19.

Alternatively; there simply wasn't a working, pre-existing treatment available.

 

[H00t]

I think it's disingenuous to frame it like that, because everyone can function in a way that is in the best interests of people and a very small few can manipulate the result to suit their financial outcomes. Especially when that group is in control of a significant amount of digital media.

The cost of the cure would be immense. A company would make a killing on it. Also while I may have a massive distrust in big businesses putting money over people’s lives.

What I don’t doubt is the tireless work of our scientists and doctors constantly working to try and save human lives. If there was a cure or effective treatment there would be papers published about it and doctors using it in hospitals to save lives.

These guys aren’t manipulating the results. Unless all researchers from University’s and all medical research companies have banded together to enrich a handful of companies currently making the vaccine.

They’d be working tirelessly to find the cure so they can market it.

 

[theyellowsash]

something something discrimination

discrimination is based on treating people differently based on their very existence. ie being black, female, simply following a certain culture or religion etc.

its not discrimination when you treat people differently based on their own free choices. if i choose to have campaigner tattooed on my forehead, its not discriminatory for people to choose they dont want me around.