Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

[Funk]

Why do the so called progressives always sound like nasty shitty little authoritarians?

because they’ve watched too many of Dictator Dan’s indoctrination sessions

 

[Toump Ass]

The demographics of the currently unvaccinated.

That’s awesome. Did you conduct the research yourself?

I can’t find any Australian data on vaccine hesitancy and race/ethnicity/melanin but am very interested.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Un-vaccinated people both endanger those who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, such as being immune-compromised or too young, and they provide a population where the virus can survive and mutate within, leading to variants which can then affect those who are vaccinated.

Social media has done one thing, allowed the vocal minority a space where they can find like-minded people and amplify their opinions. Conspericy theories like the anti-vax movements are the outcome of such situations .........

That assumes that those immuno compromised people won't die of the common cold, flu, bronchitis already right?

At our current vaccination rate - deaths from COVID will be less than from other infectious respiratory disease.

Or do we not care about immune compromised people dying of bronchitis and pneumonia?

 

[Northernsoul74]

All of those are stopping you doing something. None are forcing you to do something.

We don't mandate fat people eat vegetables - and last i checked heart disease will kill more people than COVID ever will.

You can’t catch and pass on “fat”.

 

[Xtreme]

Doors were open until late Nov 24 then its a fresh official exemption every few months if you want to live a normal life

At the rate the check ins are being done in recent weeks, I'm pretty confident my weekly routines won't be impacted at all

 

[Sir_Loin]

Do you mandate that of fat people eating burgers? Don't call an ambulance if you are having a heart attack?

What about the ambulance at footy grounds? sorry mate - you broke your leg - but you took unneccessary risks playing a combat sport.

Didn’t know there was a vaccine for those examples. If they took the fat vaccine and the broken leg vaccine then I’d allow it.

 

[Funk]

I might believe that if so many of these progressives weren't Dan Andrews bootlickers in Victoria.

They are angrier at a few anti-vaxxers than they are of a lying corrupt Premier whose actions lead to the death of hundreds of people.

That's a prime example of people dying needlessly on a large scale.

POTY

 

[Bombermania]

Research in England and in The Netherlands has also shown that an un-vaccinated person is no greater threat than a vaccinated person in passing on the virus to other people. I’ve had my jabs so it makes absolutely no difference to me whether the person next to me has been vaxed or not.

Being vaccinated isn't meant to stop someone from getting the virus but to lessen its impact.

 

[coryne]

That assumes that those immuno compromised people won't die of the common cold, flu, bronchitis already right?

At our current vaccination rate - deaths from COVID will be less than from other infectious respiratory disease.

Or do we not care about immune compromised people dying of bronchitis and pneumonia?

Um that is why you should be vaccinating against PREVENTABLE diseases, so ppl are not dying from them. That is both the people protected directly by the vaccine and those protected through herd immunity due to the population that they live in being vaccinated.

 

[Mego Red]

sit on your high horse and call someone you’ve never met before pathetic. Maybe he has a good reason. Perhaps you are the pathetic one ?

What's his good reason?

If there's a health issue that prevents him from taking the vaccine, he can get an exemption.

Otherwise, if it's just that he's read a few Facebook posts and is scared of the vaccine, he's just a science denier.

And considering how tiny an inconvenience it is to get the vaccine, I think that's pathetic.

 

[sherb]

Fair cop - but a seat belt is different to permanent medical treatment though.

There is one thing no one ever has an answer for - what is the long (or medium) term safety of the vaccine?

That one stumps everyone.

For me the unknown risk was inconsequential to the risk of COVID - it's why i got vaccinated. But it is a valid concern.

I get that - although I guess my analogy is more directed at those who refuse the vaccine because they don't like the government telling them what to do.

And yes the long term safety of the vaccine can be questioned, as only time can answer that question.

However, as you point out, it comes down to balancing out the risk. And also, doing a bit of research into how the covid 19 vaccine was developed so quickly.

Do both those things (which I did) and any sensible, logical person would take the vaccine (except those with valid reasons not to, eg medical).

 

[sherb]

even figuratively

You win oh brave Knight of the Steak.

 

[Schulzenfest]

All of those are stopping you doing something. None are forcing you to do something.

We don't mandate fat people eat vegetables - and last i checked heart disease will kill more people than COVID ever will.

The 'vaccine mandate' isn't forcing you to do something either. Imposing restrictions on you for not doing something is not the same as forcing you to do it.

 

[H00t]

Hmmm you can go outside cross the road and get hit by a bus....

There are risks in all aspects of life. Personally I'm fine with living my life as normal with "the fleeting beast" (Brett Duttons words) lurking around the corner, thats an acceptable risk in my eyes.

Getting an injection that will harm me if I did get it, is an unacceptable risk for myself. Hence why I have an exemption (which I haven't even needed to show to many people anyway lol).

No one is blaming people with a medical exemption like yourself.

But that is also why people who can get vaccinated should. To protect those who can’t.

As for risk management most things can kill you. But the risks are different. Compare driving with and without a seatbelt.

And COVID is killing a lot more than what the vaccine is. For people without a previous reaction to a vaccine, the vaccine is way safer.

 

[Mego Red]

Why are you calling people who don’t want an pharmaceutical product without full approval they don’t need morons?

Nice. Another science denier, who somehow thinks he's smarter than every doctor and scientist in every country around the globe.

 

[Ih8bombers]

No the research says that the both have the same viral load at peak, BUT (and this is the clear distinction) that vaccinated people clear it out of the system quicker.

So if you are contagious for 2 days approx when you are vaccinated, compared to 5-9 days approx for someone unvaccinated, who is the more likely based on that stat alone to spread the virus?

And good that you had your jab, but there are genuinely immunocomprimised people who can't get the jab, and then have to hope the anti-vaxx community don't go out in big numbers and cause a super spreader event like they did at the Melbourne protest.

I won’t question your understanding of this, particularly your point on how long one is contagious for, mainly because I just don’t know whether this is accurate or not.

My point however is that when 90-95% of the population looks like it will be vaccinated, I really can’t see how in a fully open setting that yhe 5% pose a greater threat than the 95%. Using your figures, in a population of 4 million, 200000 being contagious for 5 days simply is not as bad as 3.8 million being contagious for 2 days.

Unfortunately people will get sick, people will die from/with COVID. I do believe though that as a result of the current vax numbers and the greater understanding of how to deal with it in the hospital system, that they will be greatly reduced. For me, the effects of lockdowns, the division and the segregation of the community will become, perhaps might already be the greater problem.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

And COVID is killing a lot more than what the vaccine is. For people without a previous reaction to a vaccine, the vaccine is way safer.

I’m not doubting this stat at all but I reckon the risk of dying would be significantly less in 18-35 year old fit and healthy athletes.

 

[V23]

Don't even bother arguing with the anti-vax people, they've got the collective IQ of a shoe. If it were up to me, the people choosing not to be vaccinated would be excluded from society (besides necessities) permanently. Society would only improve by locking out this group of illogical simpletons.

As for the Carlton player, more than happy for their contract to be torn up if they remain unvaccinated, no matter who it is.

 

[Mego Red]

I still think the injection is akin to playing russian roulette, while I know the same can be said for running the gauntlet with the virus itself.

You can still get an adverse reaction to the vaccine even without pre existing conditions.

It's playing Russian roulette if there were no bullets in the gun.

 

[H00t]

I still think the injection is akin to playing russian roulette, while I know the same can be said for running the gauntlet with the virus itself.

You can still get an adverse reaction to the vaccine even without pre existing conditions.

The difference is with COVID the gun is significantly more loaded than with the vaccine.

You can but you also get severe reactions from COVID without pre existing conditions

 

[Mego Red]

Haha nah your 100% assumptions are pathetic.


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It's a great example of the cultural problems at Carlton.

Someone cares more about their own fears from reading posts on Facebook than they do for how they could help protect a champion of the club by getting a shot.

 

[Hawk Dork]

I still think the injection is akin to playing russian roulette, while I know the same can be said for running the gauntlet with the virus itself.

You can still get an adverse reaction to the vaccine even without pre existing conditions.

you sound like youve done your own research

 

[sherb]

'Science' is no more than a method of inquiry and is the new religion. 'Science denier' is the new 'god denier'. It is not 'stupid' to question said method when it has proven incredibly fallible, especially historically.

And you seem to be asserting that said method is not only infallible, but is not a method but rather an objective state of knowledge - which is not true. Thousands of 'doctors' and 'scientists' do not support blanket medical treatment for people who do not need to be vaccinated.

We use the benefits and discoveries of science all the time.

No need to get all narky about it now just because it doesn't suit your views on vaccination.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

It's a great example of the cultural problems at Carlton.

Someone cares more about their own fears from reading posts on Facebook than they do for how they could help protect a champion of the club by getting a shot.

A Crows fan talking about culture problems.

Now I’ve seen it all.

 

[sherb]

It's a great example of the cultural problems at Carlton.

Someone cares more about their own fears from reading posts on Facebook than they do for how they could help protect a champion of the club by getting a shot.

Nah, that's just rubbish.

It's a reflection on the individual, not the club.