Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

[phantom13]

On the Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

34

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

thing.

Casboult has said he would only take some new vaxx currently in trials in the US, likely not to be available here until like Jan (all kind of irrelevant to my question).

Hes not allowed to train with the group until hes vaxxed yeh?

 

[Gruffles]

What Vaccine to any virus prevents transmission?
What it will prevent is a more serious outcome if you do contract the virus.

Just refer to post #853 in this thread and the subsequent replies if you want to avoid having the same conversation as what has already been had. Also of note is that the bar has now been raised for a vaccine to have to prevent infection... looking forward to the first vaccine ever to be made.

 

[Glenn_]

Just refer to post #860 in this thread and the subsequent replies if you want to avoid having the same conversation as what has already been had.

It's the same argument the anti vaccine crowd throws up every time.
Time and time again they get asked the same response, yet they still have no answer.

 

[Toump Ass]

I really liked the headline "Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

34

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

did his own research into the COVID-19 vaccine" the Age was running with. They've changed it now, which is sad. I thought that headline was really good.

 

[Hawk Dork]

On the Liam Jones thing.

Casboult has said he would only take some new vaxx currently in trials in the US, likely not to be available here until like Jan (all kind of irrelevant to my question).

Hes not allowed to train with the group until hes vaxxed yeh?

Wont be allowed into Qld until after 90%
Might get a 14 day hotel quarantine spot at 80% ??

 

[phantom13]

Wont be allowed into Qld until after 90%
Might get a 14 day hotel quarantine spot at 80% ??

But even after that point dont the AFL rules state he cant be with the club if hes unvaxxed?

If Novavax (or whatever he wants to get) doesnt get cleared until lets say April he cant train at the club.

 

[Glenn_]

On the Liam Jones thing.

Casboult has said he would only take some new vaxx currently in trials in the US, likely not to be available here until like Jan (all kind of irrelevant to my question).

Hes not allowed to train with the group until hes vaxxed yeh?

Correct

 

[Hawk Dork]

Mid season draft maybe ?

 

[Glenn_]

Mid season draft maybe ?

A possibility , definitely.

 

[Trav 20]

What Vaccine to any virus prevents transmission?
What it will prevent is a more serious outcome if you do contract the virus.

It's generally accepted that the smallpox vaccine has been history's best and provided sterilised immunity, along with the measles vaccine, but vaccines don't have to stop replication or transmission to be considered effective. Especially if they succeed in stopping disease or death in the host.

This is where viral loads become important. And they will differ from pathogen to pathogen. Reducing viral loads will reduce transmission. Latest studies show that there's not much difference in the viral loads of vaccinated or unvaccinated individuals when it comes to the delta variant.

But as mentioned in my previous post, many experts believe that mass vaccination in the middle of a pandemic is counter-productive for the reasons in the links.

My issues with the gene therapy treatments (mRNA) centres around the spike protein and it's potential effect on the vascular and neurological systems.

This groupthink that the vaccines are safe, which is constantly spouted here and elsewhere, is far from proven. But when you get 24/7 saturated coverage without allowing any dissenting voices it's understandable that some are left with the beliefs they have.

If you familiarise yourself with the ''trusted news initiative'', which has been implemented globally, you'll understand why there's so little opposition to these experimental treatments in the MSM. And yes, mRNA technology and delivery system has been around for a long time. My concerns are with the spike protein and potentially the lipid nanoparticles in these treatments.

The usual dopes, typically deranged Leftists, will froth at the mouth.

 

[theyellowsash]

It's generally accepted that the smallpox vaccine has been history's best and provided sterilised immunity, along with the measles vaccine, but vaccines don't have to stop replication or transmission to be considered effective. Especially if they succeed in stopping disease or death in the host.

This is where viral loads become important. And they will differ from pathogen to pathogen. Reducing viral loads will reduce transmission. Latest studies show that there's not much difference in the viral loads of vaccinated or unvaccinated individuals when it comes to the delta variant.

But as mentioned in my previous post, many experts believe that mass vaccination in the middle of a pandemic is counter-productive for the reasons in the links.

My issues with the gene therapy treatments (mRNA) centres around the spike protein and it's potential effect on the vascular and neurological systems.

This groupthink that the vaccines are safe, which is constantly spouted here and elsewhere, is far from proven. But when you get 24/7 saturated coverage without allowing any dissenting voices it's understandable that some are left with the beliefs they have.

If you familiarise yourself with the ''trusted news initiative'', which has been implemented globally, you'll understand why there's so little opposition to these experimental treatments in the MSM. And yes, mRNA technology and delivery system has been around for a long time. My concerns are with the spike protein and potentially the lipid nanoparticles in these treatments.

The usual dopes, typically deranged Leftists, will froth at the mouth.

claiming the vaccine doesnt reduce transmission: check
references to gene therapy: check
media coverage conspiracy: check
political swipe at those damn dopey lefties: check

 

[LukeParkerno1]

claiming the vaccine doesnt reduce transmission: check
references to gene therapy: check
media coverage conspiracy: check
political swipe at those damn dopey lefties: check

It’s the anti vax BINGO!

 

[Trav 20]

claiming the vaccine doesnt reduce transmission: check
references to gene therapy: check
media coverage conspiracy: check
political swipe at those damn dopey lefties: check

Disprove one.

Can't: check.

 

[phantom13]

Disprove one.

Can't: check.

Usually incumbent on the person making the claims to prove them but i am a deranged lefty, frothing at the mouth.

 

[Trav 20]

4 October, 2021

A new study from the University of California, Davis, Genome Center, UC San Francisco and the Chan Zuckerberg Biohub shows no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people who tested positive for the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2. It also found no significant difference between infected people with or without symptoms.

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Disprove one.

Can't: check.

Back to believing something off Facebook then, good on you. It's your life.

Just don't whinge when you are excluded from certain things. It is why the mandates are fantastic. Force people to make a decision and whatever choice you make you live with the consequences it's that simple really.

 

[Glenn_]

It's generally accepted that the smallpox vaccine has been history's best and provided sterilised immunity, along with the measles vaccine, but vaccines don't have to stop replication or transmission to be considered effective. Especially if they succeed in stopping disease or death in the host.

This is where viral loads become important. And they will differ from pathogen to pathogen. Reducing viral loads will reduce transmission. Latest studies show that there's not much difference in the viral loads of vaccinated or unvaccinated individuals when it comes to the delta variant.

But as mentioned in my previous post, many experts believe that mass vaccination in the middle of a pandemic is counter-productive for the reasons in the links.

My issues with the gene therapy treatments (mRNA) centres around the spike protein and it's potential effect on the vascular and neurological systems.

This groupthink that the vaccines are safe, which is constantly spouted here and elsewhere, is far from proven. But when you get 24/7 saturated coverage without allowing any dissenting voices it's understandable that some are left with the beliefs they have.

If you familiarise yourself with the ''trusted news initiative'', which has been implemented globally, you'll understand why there's so little opposition to these experimental treatments in the MSM. And yes, mRNA technology and delivery system has been around for a long time. My concerns are with the spike protein and potentially the lipid nanoparticles in these treatments.

The usual dopes, typically deranged Leftists, will froth at the mouth.

So given that hospitalisation/ICU numbers are on the decline along with case numbers, wouldn't you say the vaccinations available have been effective?

Yes the vaccination isn't for everyone, and that's why it's imperative to get professional advice from your GP if you have concerns.

Given that one potential side effect of Covid is neurological , including seizures,strokes, loss of consciousness and those more likely to experience the more severe sides of covid are the non vaccinated. When weighed against the small number of cases that have adverse reactions, and the even smaller fatal side effects , wouldn't it be better to be vaccinated than not for those with no medicals concerns.

 

[HairyO]

On the Liam Jones thing.

Casboult has said he would only take some new vaxx currently in trials in the US, likely not to be available here until like Jan (all kind of irrelevant to my question).

Hes not allowed to train with the group until hes vaxxed yeh?

So he wont have any of the vaccines tested on billions of people but will have the vaccine not yet released. Interesting position to take.

 

[faible]

So he wont have any of the vaccines tested on billions of people but will have the vaccine not yet released. Interesting position to take.

Novavax is the anti-vaxx vaccine of choice.

 

[Gruffles]

My issues with the gene therapy treatments (mRNA)

What's your definition of a gene therapy treatment?

 

[theyellowsash]

4 October, 2021

A new study from the University of California, Davis, Genome Center, UC San Francisco and the Chan Zuckerberg Biohub shows no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people who tested positive for the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2. It also found no significant difference between infected people with or without symptoms.

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people

29 october, 2021

What is the vaccine effect on reducing transmission in the context of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant?

COVID-19 vaccines that have obtained WHO emergency use listing appear to have high efficacy against severe disease and death, but lower efficacy against non-severe infections, and emerging evidence suggests that protection against non-severe disease declines faster following vaccination than...

www.thelancet.com

They report that peak viral loads showed a faster decline in vaccinated compared with unvaccinated people, although peak viral loads were similar for unvaccinated and vaccinated people.

This study confirms that COVID-19 vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and also accelerates viral clearance in the context of the delta variant.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Novavax is the anti-vaxx vaccine of choice.

Of course it is as it hasn't been approved...then they will move to another one that hasn't been approved when it does.

 

[theyellowsash]

Disprove one.

Can't: check.

What is the vaccine effect on reducing transmission in the context of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant?
COVID-19 vaccines that have obtained WHO emergency use listing appear to have high efficacy against severe disease and death, but lower efficacy against non-severe infections, and emerging evidence suggests that protection against non-severe disease declines faster following vaccination than...
www.thelancet.com

"They report that peak viral loads showed a faster decline in vaccinated compared with unvaccinated people, although peak viral loads were similar for unvaccinated and vaccinated people."

"This study confirms that COVID-19 vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and also accelerates viral clearance in the context of the delta variant."

check. mate.

 

[Trav 20]

So given that hospitalisation/ICU numbers are on the decline along with case numbers, wouldn't you say the vaccinations available have been effective?

Yes the vaccination isn't for everyone, and that's why it's imperative to get professional advice from your GP if you have concerns.

Given that one potential side effect of Covid is neurological , including seizures,strokes, loss of consciousness and those more likely to experience the more severe sides of covid are the non vaccinated. When weighed against the small number of cases that have adverse reactions, and the even smaller fatal side effects , wouldn't it be better to be vaccinated than not for those with no medicals concerns.

I little issue with most of that. Weigh up risk V reward.

But I will say that a 1976 swine flu vaccine was stopped after 20 odd deaths. The rotavirus vaccine was stopped in the late 90s after the deaths of two children. Presently VAERS data is reporting over 18,000 deaths and almost 900,000 adverse events. A 2009 Harvard study concluded only 1% of adverse events were reported to VAERS.

Also, from today's The Age:

More than 10,000 Australians have filed coronavirus vaccine injury claims

More than 10,000 Australians have filed coronavirus vaccine injury claims

The federal government is facing a hefty bill for rare but significant coronavirus vaccine injuries, with at least 10,000 people planning to claim.

www.theage.com.au

Everyone can make their own determination, but in my view the adverse effects world-wide are being greatly minimised.

From the WHO's database:

Covid-19 Vaccine contains the active ingredient(s): Covid-19 vaccine.
Result is presented for the active ingredient(s).
Total number of records retrieved: 2513185.
Distribution
Adverse drug reactions (ADRs)

• Blood and lymphatic system disorders (103217)
• Cardiac disorders (133089)
• Congenital, familial and genetic disorders (1429)
• Ear and labyrinth disorders (83629)
• Endocrine disorders (3815)
• Eye disorders (92577)
• Gastrointestinal disorders (504848)
• General disorders and administration site conditions (1513783)
• Hepatobiliary disorders (5270)
• Immune system disorders (38362)
• Infections and infestations (188965)
• Injury, poisoning and procedural complications (127096)
• Investigations (351229)
• Metabolism and nutrition disorders (56172)
• Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders (717894)
• Neoplasms benign, malignant and unspecified (incl cysts and polyps) (4052)
• Nervous system disorders (1067104)
• Pregnancy, puerperium and perinatal conditions (6028)
• Product issues (3865)
• Psychiatric disorders (118626)
• Renal and urinary disorders (20695)
• Reproductive system and breast disorders (111198)
• Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders (268311)
• Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders (342282)
• Social circumstances (18065)
• Surgical and medical procedures (26935)
• Vascular disorders (135176)

 

[Trav 20]

What is the vaccine effect on reducing transmission in the context of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant?
COVID-19 vaccines that have obtained WHO emergency use listing appear to have high efficacy against severe disease and death, but lower efficacy against non-severe infections, and emerging evidence suggests that protection against non-severe disease declines faster following vaccination than...
www.thelancet.com

"They report that peak viral loads showed a faster decline in vaccinated compared with unvaccinated people, although peak viral loads were similar for unvaccinated and vaccinated people."

"This study confirms that COVID-19 vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and also accelerates viral clearance in the context of the delta variant."

check. mate.

Have you read it ? LOL

It's minimal.