Carlton Recruiting Dept - ????

[Beloved]

With regards to our own recruiting, you would have seen in my OP, the the regard I had for Turnbull and his continuous poor recruiting record (even if he did make some good decisions too). It took our club some time to realise what Clarkson already knew (ie how to build a club through the spine). You blokes lack KPPs and you get rid of Josh. So of course I'm critical of this. You blokes don't know how gutted the kid was, and I am 100% sure you will regret the decision. Did you see how happy he was too see some of his mates after the eagles clash... (Not sure if you realise how hard it is to find young top class fwd targets either....). Anyway this is for you Joshy. If none of the supporters accept this criticism, then so be it.

Mate, we had to make a decision on someone to leave Carlton, and the options were few and far between. It was either get rid of an under performing KPP, or an up and coming, in form defender. I certainly know my pick.

I miss Joshy as much as the next bloke, but at the end of the day, Josh had to go, as terrible as it sounds. IMO, I think in order for Josh to become a much better player, he needed a scene change.

 

[Hawkzzz]

get the fcuk off our board. piss off we don't need your crap-talk. what purpose does it serve?

It's called examining the decision making ability of guys running this VITAL area of the club. It's also a little bit of fair justice for letting Josh down... Face it, the club had a decision to make and got it wrong. I'm not arguing whether Juddy is a super player. Of course he is. But at the time, I could not fathom why you weren't willing to give them another player instead of a prized high pick KPP. I remember all the KEEP JOSH KENNEDY AT CARLTON posts and I was hoping for his sake you would commend his loyalty and give up another decent option. I suppose it's convenient to forget all these things. Sometimes the club (whether it be the Hawks, Blues or whoever) must be held ACCOUNTABLE. Get it. I thought the message here was simple to comprehend......

With regards to Croad, you will recall the huge backlash LOYAL Hawk supporters gave Croady when they made this decision. Good or bad, we stuck by our player and the club copped heaps from us members....remember, or did u forget this too.

Now it's time to cop it on the chin. It may be asking a bit much for Blues' fans to apologise, of course.

 

[Hawkzzz]

Mate, we had to make a decision on someone to leave Carlton, and the options were few and far between. It was either get rid of an under performing KPP, or an up and coming, in form defender. I certainly know my pick.

I miss Joshy as much as the next bloke, but at the end of the day, Josh had to go, as terrible as it sounds. IMO, I think in order for Josh to become a much better player, he needed a scene change.

Just face it, you made an appalling selection. It's obvious how good this kid is going to be. It's also an area of the ground you DID NOT have replacements. ie. CHF. or doesn't your club have a recruiting model...

 

[btdg]

There is so much wrong with Hawkzz post I don't know where to start. First off, he makes the contention that you have to rebuild a team through the 'spine', and that key forwards (ie Kennedy) are vital to that process... Only problem is, when you look at the last few premiership teams and their defining characteristics:
2007 - Geelong: Midfield, defence. (serviceable forward line, but best forward was Steve Johnson, a small forward)
2006 - West Coast: Midfield, defence (average forward line)
2005 - Sydney: Tackling and ability to pressure the midfield, tempo football, domination at stoppages (ie, midfield) (One good tall forward - Hall, but certainly not a defining element of their team)
2004 - Port Adelaide: Hard to give a defining characteristic. Midfield probably their biggest strength
2001-2003 - Brisbane. Dominant midfield
2000 - Essendon. Forward line (Hird, Lucas, Lloyd)

In other words, the last team to win a premiership based on a dominant forward line was in 2000. In recent years, premierships have been won in the midfield. Leadership is also a consistent factor too. Judd gives us a fighting chance in both those areas. Kennedy gives neither.

Secondly, it is almost certain that Carlton will win out of this trade overall. Judd is a 10/10 player. Even if Kennedy and Masten both end up as 8s or 9s, it still doesn't equal one 10, because of how rare a talent Judd is.

Thirdly, the contention that we could have substituted someone else for Kennedy is unproven. He fitted a need for West Coast that no-one else on our list could except Fevola - a big forward. Why would they accept Carazzo? He is basically a clone of Priddis - a ball magnet with average skills. Kennedy is also from WA, so the risk of his leaving Carlton to go home down the track is removed, and there is little risk that he asks to leave West coast (reducing the risk for both teams). Plus, any alternative player would have to agree to the trade. Really, the only alternative imo would have been to trade Fev straight up for Judd. I think we did better this way, and most would agree.

Methinks this was really just an exercise in trolling...

 

[Beloved]

Just face it, you made an appalling selection. It's obvious how good this kid is going to be. It's also an area of the ground you DID NOT have replacements. ie. CHF. or doesn't your club have a recruiting model...

What would you rather mate? How good a guy can be, or how good a guy is?

Choose the first, and you would never, ever make as a coach.

 

[thylacine60]

Just face it, you made an appalling selection. It's obvious how good this kid is going to be. It's also an area of the ground you DID NOT have replacements. ie. CHF. or doesn't your club have a recruiting model...

Erm....why do you care? We don't anymore. You clearly have far better insight as to who will and who won't make it as a player although this comment of yours intrigues:

"I was waiting for the day he would show you guys up for not having faith in him."

Zero credibility. Stick your scrawny neck out before he comes good, as you suggest our club should have done, then maybe you might be given some credibility. Now ____ off back to Housing Estate Land where you come from. Such a rich history, Waverley. Hilarious.

 

[Silvagnis]

Just face it, you made an appalling selection. It's obvious how good this kid is going to be. It's also an area of the ground you DID NOT have replacements. ie. CHF. or doesn't your club have a recruiting model...

Adam Hartlett.

Do you want another chance to make yourself look like a fool?

 

[sosos]

... Face it, the club had a decision to make and got it wrong.

You could not be more wrong.

Carlton got it right.

Face this. For whatever reason, Kennedy wasn't doing the business. Got a huge motivational kick up his fat arse and has now lost some weight and is doing the work for the Eagles.

Funny that isn't it. Have you noticed how often that occurs among all clubs.

How you can state we got it wrong is completely beyond me.

We gave, we received.

Have you noticed the massive impact Judd has had on the club? Have you noticed how little we're missing Kennedy? Did you notice Carazzo's BOG last game?

You're just sniping and "Joshy" would be embarassed for you if he is your friend.

The way you speak is creepy. Were you stalking him and now you're cut he's in WA?

 

[dirk pitt]

. It took our club some time to realise what Clarkson already knew (ie how to build a club through the spine).

*Yawn* The amount of revisionist history that goes on about that draft by Hawks fans is remarkable, and just quietly, more than a little embarrassing.

I'm pleased Roughie and Buddy turned out to be good players or you, but the reality is the Hawks had no control over who was drafted after pick 2. You had no guarantee you were going to end up with two KPs and you made the wrong decision about the player you did draft at pick 2. I doubt you'd be travelling quite so well with Roughhead being double teamed each week and Griffen, or more likely Tambling, running around in the midfield.

You owe your good fortune to other clubs' poor decision making skills, so please don't pass your dumb luck off as some sort of Clarkson "masterplan".

 

[BlueBelle]

Carlton did what they had to do to secure the best player in the competition. You don't like it and neither did some Carlton supporters but guess what? That's life and sometimes you gotta give a little to take a little.

Josh may well become one of the dominant forwards in the comp but we let him go to get THE MOST DOMINANT player in the past 6 years. A leader on and off the field.

You may think we made the wrong decision but guess what? We don't care what you think Just like you won't care that I know Sam Mitchell is hated by the LOYAL Hawthorn supporters and majority of the playing group. How's that for a Captain

 

[parrot]

Just face it, you made an......

You're a fraud of course. The mock-concern routine is hilarious. Almost as funny as the Tassie government handout that keeps your borderline financially viable club afloat.

 

[The Coach]

Kennedy was given plenty of opportunity to shine - he may very well turn out to be a good player but I've got my doubts he'll be any more than that!!!
Would do it all again in a heartbeat

Agree

I can see from the replies, none of you can perceive that the decision making at the club let ALL of you down. One thing you also don't get is the Eagles were WILLING TO ACCEPT ANOTHER DECENT PLAYER INSTEAD OF JOSHY. The main problem is that your club didn't think a great deal of him. The Eagles would have accepted another top mid like Carazzo plus pick 3. Your footy dept simply didn't want to give up a proven player because they were very unsure whether Josh would cut it.

In other words they had very limited vision. And yes, I am backing up my mate because I was waiting for the day he would show you guys up for not having faith in him.

AND WHY WOULD WE HAVE CHANGED OUR MIND ABOUT JK? It is unusual for the WCE to have a Hawk in their inner-sanctum - who did they tell you, they would have settled for LOL

When he wins WCE B&F (lol) I might think Carrots would have been a better option

Just face it, you made an appalling selection. It's obvious how good this kid is going to be.

I am a big fan of McKinley and although I know he is of impeccable character and work ethic AND has played more good games than JK, I still think he will have his work cut out to make it - so what is obvious about JK?

Now it's time to cop it on the chin. It may be asking a bit much for Blues' fans to apologise, of course.

I hoped they would trade Kennedy and am still happy. He has slimmed down but I still think he is a footballer from days gone by

 

[HBF]

Im happy with judd anyday of the week.

Same, and I believe we have got one of the best juniors ever in Kreuzer. The things that he can do for a kid standing at 200cm is frightening. Yeah, I wish we hadn'thad to give up JK, but hell, we're talking about the best player in the game. We had to give something up.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Just face it, you made an appalling selection. It's obvious how good this kid is going to be. It's also an area of the ground you DID NOT have replacements. ie. CHF. or doesn't your club have a recruiting model...

Actually, FWIW, I don't think it is obvious how good this kid is going to be - jury is still out.

 

[j-ham]

Kreuzer will be a pretty handy forward just quietly. He's not ready to be getting smashed around at CHF yet though.

 

[AlecDuncan]

The main problem is that your club didn't think a great deal of him.

You have NFI. Are you using a random troll generator?

 

[serenityNow]

I know there were a lot of blues' posters who had set up protests against the club trading Josh Kennedy. I was one poster that agreed with you. In my view, the Eagles would have taken pick 2 and someone like Carazzo to bolster their midfield.

Now some may go ballistic at giving away Carazzo because he is a b & f winner at the club. The point is, it had to give away someone good, but NOT Kennedy. I know this kid a bit more than most and I knew he would be a very good KPP. Plus the kid was desperate to stay.

I saw Josh as very much the equivalent to Roughead from our team. Once again you have made a major blunder at the recruiting table and make no bones about it, Kennedy will be at least as good as Roughy. The stupidity of it all was you were getting a top class mid in Judd, Stevens was coming back, Walker was ready to slot into the midfield rotation and you were short on KPPs.

I'm sure many will regard this as a troll, but I was one who was a staunch supporter of Josh coz I know him and he wanted to stay with you guys. So in a way I am a little bit bitter at Carlton because you gutted the kid.

And he will really end up an ELITE CHF. Go figure. Stupid short sighted recruiting dept. Not only that, they've publicly given Fevola his last chance. So if he stuffs up they will be pressured to give him up..... again a dumb ass move. You impose harsh PRIVATE conditions..DUH. If Fev is forced to go due to a public stuff up, then who will you have?? Back to square one again. Compare the attitude with Clarkson, whose priority was to build the fwd spine with the twin towers.....

We sent email after email about Turnbull and his crap vision as head of our recruiting dept. It may be time you blokes give the club some constructive criticism too. Quite frankly, though, having talked to Josh, he is happy to be back home, but he is disappointed. Sure, you guys will say "just move on" but as you see him become one of the top 5 fwds in the comp, it will be a little more harder to accept.

Qn? Why could so many supporters see the stupidity of this trade, considering how short you were on KPPs, and the club was BLIND. I told Joshy I would give you guys a serve and so I have. He will read your responses with interest....

Trent Croad...........

 

[HBF]

Kreuzer will be a pretty handy forward just quietly. He's not ready to be getting smashed around at CHF yet though.

Played most his games at FF when he did play forward for the Knights, but he certainly has the ability to play CHF.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

It's called examining the decision making ability of guys running this VITAL area of the club. It's also a little bit of fair justice for letting Josh down... Face it, the club had a decision to make and got it wrong. I'm not arguing whether Juddy is a super player. Of course he is. But at the time, I could not fathom why you weren't willing to give them another player instead of a prized high pick KPP.

You have no idea what Carlton were willing to give up and what the Eagles were prepared to accept. We had to find a player that was willing to go as it is up to the player and one that the Eagles would accept. You are making stuff up, continuing to argue about something you have presented no facts for and I am willing to brush you off as a troll if you persist.

I remember all the KEEP JOSH KENNEDY AT CARLTON posts and I was hoping for his sake you would commend his loyalty and give up another decent option.

What other option Einstein?

I suppose it's convenient to forget all these things. Sometimes the club (whether it be the Hawks, Blues or whoever) must be held ACCOUNTABLE. Get it. I thought the message here was simple to comprehend......

What sort of backlash would the club have copped if they did not get Judd because we wouldn't give anybody up? The message here is simple to comprehend. You are pretty much talking out of your rear end and we don't appreciate it.

With regards to Croad, you will recall the huge backlash LOYAL Hawk supporters gave Croady when they made this decision. Good or bad, we stuck by our player and the club copped heaps from us members....remember, or did u forget this too.

And plenty of Carlton supporters wanted to keep Josh as well and wish him nothing but the best. What exactly is your point? How would those supporters have felt if you did not give up Croad to Freo and missed out on Hodge as a result? Unthinkable now isn't it?

Now it's time to cop it on the chin. It may be asking a bit much for Blues' fans to apologise, of course.

Time for you to cop it on the chin I think. Apologise? What would Carlton fans have to apologise about ... and to who?

 

[a1118374]

with respect, josh aint gonna be a jono brown/carey IMO.

so the best player in the comp for unproven but likely sercicable CHF and a top prospect + another is a decent deal.

judd+browne > masten+kennedy+ebert? not sure about the last one but i'll take that anyday

 

[BlueYoss]

judd+browne > masten+kennedy+notte

Ebert was their pick # 13

 

[Salaryman]

IIRC it was effectively Judd + Armfield for Masten, Kennedy and Notte. However I'd have 100 on us not using 3 on Masten or 20 on Notte

As for the OP

We took Josh at #4 in the draft and in all probability would have taken him #1 if Murphy had chosen the F/S route. But we didn't rate him

We didn't want to trade him but our hand was somewhat forced to get the deal done cleanly

 

[Hawkzzz]

You're a fraud of course. The mock-concern routine is hilarious. Almost as funny as the Tassie government handout that keeps your borderline financially viable club afloat.

Where on earth did you get the impression I was concerned for your club

Joshy is a mate of mine. Of course, he would never ask me to write up a defensive post on his behalf. Guys of that calibre move on. However, I made a mental note to remind some of you of how poor a decision this was. Also considering how loyal the kid was.....Of course, ALL OF YOU NOW CONVENIENTLY FORGET THE "SAVE JOSH KENNEDY" THREAD.

 

[Hawkzzz]

It's so obvious from the multitude of angry replies, I've hit a nerve....Never mind. Just thought I'd give you all a friendly reminder.

Old Dark Navy Blues - Why don't you admit that your club did NOT rate Josh and that is the MAIN reason you were willing to let your prized ex pick 4 go. Are you trying to tell me that Josh was the only option on the list. Tell it to someone else.

As for being a big footy moderator, you don't seem to have grasped how to be argumentative but POLITE. I can see that with many on here and their vitriol. Anyway, time to move on. Many of you were passionate about keeping Josh but you are unwilling to simply accept that the club STUFFED up. Hello, anybody home McFly.....

 

[Sheik Mathious]

Does this bloke know who Chris Judd is?