Hot Topic CARLTON SUPPORTERS ONLY - Carlton fires Captain Carlton

[Gethelred]

Carlton caught up in fresh storm over club mascot

A statement has been issued and the person at the centre of the incident has been sacked.

7news.com.au

This thread is for the discussion of the sacking of a club mascot after refusing to participate in a bar mitzvah which was allegedly sending money back to the IDF.

By taking this position and labelling the act racist, the club has taken a position on the Israel-Palestine conflict.

This thread concerns a discussion of the following:

• whether it is acceptable for the club to fire someone for taking a political stance.
• whether it is a good idea for the club to have taken a public position on this issue.

This thread is not a thread in which you should partake in expressing your political beliefs concerning the conflict, nor is it somewhere in which forum rules do not apply.

Should you seek to participate in conversation related to the war, you can do so here:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack IV - Probable Case of Genocide

Continued from Part III https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack-iii.1381570/ Original Post, October 7, 2023: Israel declares state of war In response to the attacks, which appear to have caught the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) by surprise, Israel has...

www.bigfooty.com

There's also a thread on the SRP for a more robust discussion than can be permitted here:

Moved Thread - Blues mascot 'Captain Carlton' sacked after walking out of Bar Mitzvah and comments about Zionists.

Blues off to a flyer for the off season :D But surely one can criticise the actions of the IDF without being 'anti semitic' ‘Not doing this for f---ing Zios’: Captain Carlton mascot storms out of Bar Mitzvah celebration A man working as a mascot for the Carlton Football Club has stunned...

www.bigfooty.com

If you wish to participate in this thread, do so knowing that this will not be allowed to escalate beyond a point.

Thanks all!

 

[Dramoth]

Not sure how this can be described as anti-Semitism when the person was willing to perform at a Bar Mitzvah. Only withdrew after learning funds were going to support IDF soldiers.

This! It's not antisemitic, it's anti-Zionist.

 

[ctwenty1]

That is a serious departure from what is being said by some in here and if that is in fact what happened, he will take the club to the cleaners and rightfully so.

Looking forward to the facts coming out

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Fixed it for you DD

"I just read a statement supposedly from the club that stated the employee was dismissed because they didn’t uphold the values of the club personal interests of its Board Members."

There's the issue in a nutshell. They claim we stand for inclusion and unity and other buzz words. Does that include war criminals too? The UNHRC has condemned Israel in 45 resolutions, but this mascot is expected to be inclusive of something that wants to provide monetary support to its soldiers.

So was walking out the issue? Or saying the f word? Or using the word 'zios' to describe Israeli soldiers?

Or was it embarrassing some board member in front of his corporate mates?

 

[Dramoth]

As with all situations, two things can be true at the same time.

Yes, he is well within his rights to take a stand against a genocide and I applaud him for doing so.

But you also can't behave in the manner described while representing your employer and expect zero disciplinary action.

I sincerely hope that the club has taken this action due to his behaviour, rather than the political belief he holds.

He would have been sacked for "antisemitic" comments. Which is total bullshit because anti-Zionism is not antisemitism.

Channel 7 reported that there were "senior club members" there. Um... I take that as there were Zionists there who bitched to the club about it comflating Zionism with Judaism. The fact he showed up for the Bar Mitzvah shows that he wasn't antisemitic.

 

[mickelboy182]

Looking forward to the facts coming out

It is bizarre the club sacked him so quickly, rather than a standing down and investigation - you might read into that there was overwhelming justification, or the more cynical might read into it as the event in question was for some powerful benefactors...

Totally agree that there are too many gaps to ascertain if the sacking was justifiable. The only thing that is certain is that this was a completely ill advised venture...

 

[Gethelred]

What are the rules about donating money to a proscribed terrorist group?

... you probably shouldn't. Which is why it's a good thing that it didn't happen.

Now, we can continue to talk around this, or you can come and actually join the conversation where it can actually be had.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Looking forward to the facts coming out

The facts according to who? One sacked mascot vs a room full of like-minded individuals. It would have been a recorded event I'm guessing. Show us the video.

 

[Dramoth]

Pretty misleading OP.

Guy made a racist comment, swore at a kids event and walked out of the event he had been hired for.

Walking out is the political stance, and IMO not fireable.

Making a racist comment and swearing? That's too far.

Cpt Carlton needs to do better, so does the OP.

Where is the racist comment?

Please explain to me how commenting about a political ideology can be conflated with racism? There are lots of Christians who are also Zionists. The swearing bit deserves a disciplinary action. Bad boy, you're fined a weeks salary for swearing at a kids function.

 

[mickelboy182]

The facts according to who? One sacked mascot vs a room full of like-minded individuals. It would have been a recorded event I'm guessing. Show us the video.

That's the other thing, barring video evidence you'd hope the club would back in the employee who went to the event in good faith before the blindside.

 

[Andrewgtv05]

Why is it when controversy happens in the AFL it always somehow involves Carlton

 

[katmanblue]

So there's a pretty important vacancy now at Carlton FC.

Can we get a poll set up, who we think from BF Carlton board should be installed as the new Captain Carlton?

Couple of early names Soapy V ESKIE, any others that we should have, 10 should do it???

Clearly Ferris

 

[Dramoth]

Not sure what this moron was expecting to see out of a Torquay Hotel window, the Sydney Opera House, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, Herds of Wildebeest majestically sweeping across the veldt.

He was entertaining at a Bar Mitzvah - hello.

If I went to a Bar Mitzvah, I wouldn't expect to see fundraising for a genocidal foreign army. I would expect to see kids partying and celebrating a coming of age ceremony.

 

[Andrewgtv05]

So there's a pretty important vacancy now at Carlton FC.

Can we get a poll set up, who we think from BF Carlton board should be installed as the new Captain Carlton?

Couple of early names Soapy V ESKIE, any others that we should have, 10 should do it???

How about we get someone that has no political stance on anything

 

[ctwenty1]

The facts according to who? One sacked mascot vs a room full of like-minded individuals. It would have been a recorded event I'm guessing. Show us the video.

yeah, so facts

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'm not sure that losing a job wearing a costume is a massive deal. I'd imagine the reputational damage would be though. Sure, most won't know the bloke, but his own circles know who he is. Unfair dismissal is one thing, but the injurious nature of the fallout is something else again.

If a claim comes or a private settlement given, whoever is involved needs to walk. The board is on thin ice as it is.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Why is it when controversy happens in the AFL it always somehow involves Carlton

Not true at all. You're stuck in a Carlton bubble perhaps?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

yeah, so facts

Are you aware of anything other than what was reported?

 

[Gethelred]

It is bizarre the club sacked him so quickly, rather than a standing down and investigation - you might read into that there was overwhelming justification, or the more cynical might read into it as the event in question was for some powerful benefactors...

Totally agree that there are too many gaps to ascertain if the sacking was justifiable. The only thing that is certain is that this was a completely ill advised venture...

Might've been casual employment, so easy to do for any reason.

 

[ctwenty1]

Are you aware of anything other than what was reported?

no

 

[Blue_Fusion]

You need to be a professional when you represent this club. Simple as that. The club pay him to do a job, therefore, he is a representative of the club.

He doesn't get to pick and choose where or who he performs for, that is up to the club who pay his salary. Now, he of course has the free will to express whatever opinion he wants and he can very well storm out if he disagrees with the people he is supposed to perform for... but then, don't expect to remain employed...

The allegations of him storming out and shouting what was reported is unprofessional behaviour and warrants him being sacked.

He has put the club in a very tough spot here now due to the political implications... don't sack him and Carlton are upsetting a community, sack him and Carlton are still upsetting supporters on an opposing side...

Giving him a pass here, means giving others at the club a pass to behave unprofessionally as well... and what if he does it again regarding different political topics? We'd be putting double standards in place and the club absolutely cannot leave itself open to this...

 

[Andrewgtv05]

Not true at all. You're stuck in a Carlton bubble perhaps?

Somehow, yes

 

[bradfisher14]

He would have been sacked for "antisemitic" comments.

We don't know what the terms of his contract with the club are, so this is an assumption.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You need to be a professional when you represent this club. Simple as that. The club pay him to do a job, therefore, he is a representative of the club.

He doesn't get to pick and choose where or who he performs for, that is up to the club who pay his salary. Now, he of course has the free will to express whatever opinion he wants and he can very well storm out if he disagrees with the people he is supposed to perform for... but then, don't expect to remain employed...

The allegations of him storming out and shouting what was reported is unprofessional behaviour and warrants him being sacked.

He has put the club in a very tough spot here now due to the political implications... don't sack him and Carlton are upsetting a community, sack him and Carlton are still upsetting supporters on an opposing side...

Giving him a pass here, means giving others at the club a pass to behave unprofessionally as well... and what if he does it again regarding different political topics? We'd be putting double standards in place and the club absolutely cannot leave itself open to this...

I read the word 'overheard', not the word 'shouted'.

The club should not be putting anybody into a situation that requires a moral quandry.

This was a private event where a personal request was made. Someone at the club used their influence to smooze up to some bigwig, by using the club mascot. It wasn't a club sanctioned event.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

There's the issue in a nutshell. They claim we stand for inclusion and unity and other buzz words. Does that include war criminals too? The UNHRC has condemned Israel in 45 resolutions, but this mascot is expected to be inclusive of something that wants to provide monetary support to its soldiers.

So was walking out the issue? Or saying the f word? Or using the word 'zios' to describe Israeli soldiers?

Or was it embarrassing some board member in front of his corporate mates?

It was reported that some “senior Carlton members” were among guests at the Bar Mitzvah.

So the question has to be raised if CC was there in an official capacity representing the Carlton Football Club, or just as a plaything for some of it's Board Members?

And who was actually paying him to attend the gig; was it the club or a 3rd party? It was a private function, so we can only assume it wasn't the club, which in turn implies he wasn't there on an official club capacity.

So how can 'the club' turn around and sack him? I agree TODN, sounds like it pissed off some Board members who then used their official capacity to sack him because it 'didn't align with the values and responsibilities of the club'.

I honestly hope CC takes it to Fair Work and in turn takes the club to the cleaners.

 

[El Topo]

You need to be a professional when you represent this club. Simple as that. The club pay him to do a job, therefore, he is a representative of the club.

He doesn't get to pick and choose where or who he performs for, that is up to the club who pay his salary. Now, he of course has the free will to express whatever opinion he wants and he can very well storm out if he disagrees with the people he is supposed to perform for... but then, don't expect to remain employed...

The allegations of him storming out and shouting what was reported is unprofessional behaviour and warrants him being sacked.

He has put the club in a very tough spot here now due to the political implications... don't sack him and Carlton are upsetting a community, sack him and Carlton are still upsetting supporters on an opposing side...

Giving him a pass here, means giving others at the club a pass to behave unprofessionally as well... and what if he does it again regarding different political topics? We'd be putting double standards in place and the club absolutely cannot leave itself open to this...

One solution would be for the Board to cease treating the club and its people as a plaything for their wealthy mates - the whole scenario is classic Carlton