Hot Topic CARLTON SUPPORTERS ONLY - Carlton fires Captain Carlton

[Gethelred]

Carlton caught up in fresh storm over club mascot

A statement has been issued and the person at the centre of the incident has been sacked.

7news.com.au

This thread is for the discussion of the sacking of a club mascot after refusing to participate in a bar mitzvah which was allegedly sending money back to the IDF.

By taking this position and labelling the act racist, the club has taken a position on the Israel-Palestine conflict.

This thread concerns a discussion of the following:

• whether it is acceptable for the club to fire someone for taking a political stance.
• whether it is a good idea for the club to have taken a public position on this issue.

This thread is not a thread in which you should partake in expressing your political beliefs concerning the conflict, nor is it somewhere in which forum rules do not apply.

Should you seek to participate in conversation related to the war, you can do so here:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack IV - Probable Case of Genocide

Continued from Part III https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack-iii.1381570/ Original Post, October 7, 2023: Israel declares state of war In response to the attacks, which appear to have caught the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) by surprise, Israel has...

www.bigfooty.com

There's also a thread on the SRP for a more robust discussion than can be permitted here:

Moved Thread - Blues mascot 'Captain Carlton' sacked after walking out of Bar Mitzvah and comments about Zionists.

Blues off to a flyer for the off season :D But surely one can criticise the actions of the IDF without being 'anti semitic' ‘Not doing this for f---ing Zios’: Captain Carlton mascot storms out of Bar Mitzvah celebration A man working as a mascot for the Carlton Football Club has stunned...

www.bigfooty.com

If you wish to participate in this thread, do so knowing that this will not be allowed to escalate beyond a point.

Thanks all!

 

[El Topo]

You need to be a professional when you represent this club. Simple as that. The club pay him to do a job, therefore, he is a representative of the club.

He doesn't get to pick and choose where or who he performs for, that is up to the club who pay his salary. Now, he of course has the free will to express whatever opinion he wants and he can very well storm out if he disagrees with the people he is supposed to perform for... but then, don't expect to remain employed...

The allegations of him storming out and shouting what was reported is unprofessional behaviour and warrants him being sacked.

He has put the club in a very tough spot here now due to the political implications... don't sack him and Carlton are upsetting a community, sack him and Carlton are still upsetting supporters on an opposing side...

Giving him a pass here, means giving others at the club a pass to behave unprofessionally as well... and what if he does it again regarding different political topics? We'd be putting double standards in place and the club absolutely cannot leave itself open to this...

One solution would be for the Board to cease treating the club and its people as a plaything for their wealthy mates - the whole scenario is classic Carlton

 

[El Topo]

Might've been casual employment, so easy to do for any reason.

Casuals are still covered by the general protections regime in the FWA - this might be a particularly expensive catering gig for the Club

 

[Dramoth]

That's a great question. It would be alarming to say the least if the club knew about the IDF fundraising part of the event.

I would love to know more about this situation, but sadly I don't think we'll get anything more than what we've already been given.

I would say he was only contracted to show up for the Bar Mitzvah, and found out that the parents were using the event to fundraise for the wounded IDF soldiers when he got there. They probably asked him to chip in to the fund. And that was probably when he arc'd up.

 

[Sector 7G]

Oh Roooooobbbeeerrrttt

Where were you on this one big boy?

Now the club is embroiled in an Israel vs Palestine moral battle.

Not a great look and the control has only inflamed things further.

Any honest, non-scripted response coming from you?

Massive overblown issue that has somehow made the front page of the paper. Club was in a no win situation. Would be criticized for what ever they did. Are we sure that the casual employee in the masked Captain Carlton suit in Round 1 is not going to be the same guy at the Bar Mitzvah?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I read the word 'overheard', not the word 'shouted'.

Who really knows without being there... this article doesn't really say:

Carlton caught up in fresh storm over club mascot

A statement has been issued and the person at the centre of the incident has been sacked.

7news.com.au

Whether he shouted it or not, it was still an inappropriate thing to say.

The club should not be putting anybody into a situation that requires a moral quandry.

He should have handled himself better. Finish the event and quit. Or if he couldn't bear to be there... he could still have left, why say what he did?

So like I said, giving him a free pass here has so many detrimental implications... even potentially through to the playing group... I'm sure there are players that do not appreciate such remarks... no way he was keeping his job. The club did the right thing.

This was a private event where a personal request was made. Someone at the club used their influence to smooze up to some bigwig, by using the club mascot. It wasn't a club sanctioned event.

The intentions of some bigwig at the club are irrelevant. If he didn't learn of where the money was going, no one would have a problem with this private event... because it's irrelevant...

Bottom line is, he was still representing the club, and from what I gather, his bosses were there? No way that behaviour was going to go unpunished...

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Massive overblown issue that has somehow made the front page of the paper. Club was in a no win situation. Would be criticized for what ever they did. Are we sure that the casual employee in the masked Captain Carlton suit in Round 1 is not going to be the same guy at the Bar Mitzvah?

It doesn't matter if he suits up again, when the appearance is that he was sacked for upsetting Jewish community leaders. The club should have taken some time, not had a knee jerk reaction to bring embarrassed in front of mates.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

One solution would be for the Board to cease treating the club and its people as a plaything for their wealthy mates - the whole scenario is classic Carlton

While I agree board members shouldn't be using the club for personal gain... it doesn't excuse his behaviour.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Who really knows without being there... this article doesn't really say:

Carlton caught up in fresh storm over club mascot

A statement has been issued and the person at the centre of the incident has been sacked.

7news.com.au

Whether he shouted it or not, it was still an inappropriate thing to say.



He should have handled himself better. Finish the event and quit. Or if he couldn't bear to be there... he could still have left, why say what he did?

So like I said, giving him a free pass here has so many detrimental implications... even potentially through to the playing group... I'm sure there are players that do not appreciate such remarks... no way he was keeping his job. The club did the right thing.



The intentions of some bigwig at the club are irrelevant. If he didn't learn of where the money was going, no one would have a problem with this private event... because it's irrelevant...

Bottom line is, he was still representing the club, and from what I gather, his bosses were there? No way that behaviour was going to go unpunished...

Could have simply been a case of telling someone from the club he wasn't doing it and why. Gets overheard by a bystander a d that's that.

Which word was the sackable offense ... ****ing or zios?

 

[El Topo]

While I agree board members shouldn't be using the club for personal gain... it doesn't excuse his behaviour.

I'm taking the specifics with a massive grain of salt given the source of the report

 

[Dramoth]

We don't know what the terms of his contract with the club are, so this is an assumption.

The problem there is that the comments attributed to him are about political ideology and the followers. The fact that he showed up to the Bar Mitzvah says that he isn't antisemitic.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I’m making the assumption that clubs are smart enough to ask for details of events they are committing staff for.

I highly doubt that the club asked, or knew anything outside of it being a bar mitzvah for a kid.
Insinuating otherwise is a giant leap.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Could have simply been a case of telling someone from the club he wasn't doing it and why. Gets overheard by a bystander a d that's that.

Which word was the sackable offense ... ****ing or zios?

Could be, but that's not what was reported... we simply don't know enough to say for sure.

As for the word, I believe it's not just a word... it's the remark. It is hostile toward a political movement and the club must be seen to be neutral in such political views to avoid backlash from either side. Had he made remarks in such a manner but for an opposing view, I'd imagine the club would take the same stance as it is absolutely the right thing to do from their perspective.

Trust me on this one, it is all about protecting the brand... club can't be seen as "supportive" of a divisive political battle... especially one as sensitive as this... way too many detrimental implications.

 

[El Topo]

I highly doubt that the club asked, or knew anything outside of it being a bar mitzvah for a kid.
Insinuating otherwise is a giant leap.

That's the issue - checks and procedures aren't just a make-work program for pedantic nerds, they're in place to prevent exactly this type of situation

 

[Dramoth]

Who really knows without being there... this article doesn't really say:

Carlton caught up in fresh storm over club mascot

A statement has been issued and the person at the centre of the incident has been sacked.

7news.com.au

Whether he shouted it or not, it was still an inappropriate thing to say.



He should have handled himself better. Finish the event and quit. Or if he couldn't bear to be there... he could still have left, why say what he did?

So like I said, giving him a free pass here has so many detrimental implications... even potentially through to the playing group... I'm sure there are players that do not appreciate such remarks... no way he was keeping his job. The club did the right thing.



The intentions of some bigwig at the club are irrelevant. If he didn't learn of where the money was going, no one would have a problem with this private event... because it's irrelevant...

Bottom line is, he was still representing the club, and from what I gather, his bosses were there? No way that behaviour was going to go unpunished...

If it was an official club action, he would have been there with a rep from the club. So that brings the whole "overheard" argument into play. The only way it would have been overheard is if he made the comment in a very public area. Stupid really. He should have pulled the rep aside where they were private. Told them they weren't staying and left it up to the rep to make excuses while CC buggered off. It wouldn't matter what CC told the rep as that was a private conversation.

 

[Jimmae]

If he was talked into it without this being brought up, he's got every right to be upset, but the alleged comments aren't on.

Supporting injured IDF soldiers isn't the worst charity in the world however, but I would like to know more about the people and charity involved before standing behind that call.

I'm certainly not a fan of the IDF's actions of late, but that is distinct from soldiers who serve their country, particularly for a somewhat conscripted military.

 

[StanleyBeren]

Lets just keep the club mascot for Carlton related events and all should be good.

 

[Bletch]

Might've been casual employment, so easy to do for any reason.

Yes and no. Antoinette Lattouf was on a short-term contract, and looks a very similar case. ABC taken to the cleaners in court.

 

[katmanblue]

How about we get someone that has no political stance on anything

 

[Dramoth]

It doesn't matter if he suits up again, when the appearance is that he was sacked for upsetting Jewish community leaders. The club should have taken some time, not had a knee jerk reaction to bring embarrassed in front of mates.

Being pressured into it by a couple of "senior club members" of the supporter group at the club.

I wonder if they can tell me how long it takes to become a senior club member? Because I've been a club member for 17 seasons now and I'm sure that qualifies me as being a senior club member (add in that I'm 61 years old)... or is it the amount of zeros you have in your bank account? You know, the more zeros you have in your bank account, the more senior you are.

I have voting rights at the club as well. It's one member, one vote. Just because one member has a couple of hundred million in the bank, doesn't give him any more power, really, at the club than I have.

But we all know that the rich and infamous really rule the club.

 

[Dramoth]

How about we get someone that has no political stance on anything

Good luck with that.

 

[agro]

I would say he was only contracted to show up for the Bar Mitzvah, and found out that the parents were using the event to fundraise for the wounded IDF soldiers when he got there. They probably asked him to chip in to the fund. And that was probably when he arc'd up.

Probably asked him to chip in.

Have you taken up the Octo Bass?

 

[Bletch]

Who really knows without being there... this article doesn't really say:

Carlton caught up in fresh storm over club mascot

A statement has been issued and the person at the centre of the incident has been sacked.

7news.com.au

Whether he shouted it or not, it was still an inappropriate thing to say.



He should have handled himself better. Finish the event and quit. Or if he couldn't bear to be there... he could still have left, why say what he did?

So like I said, giving him a free pass here has so many detrimental implications... even potentially through to the playing group... I'm sure there are players that do not appreciate such remarks... no way he was keeping his job. The club did the right thing.



The intentions of some bigwig at the club are irrelevant. If he didn't learn of where the money was going, no one would have a problem with this private event... because it's irrelevant...

Bottom line is, he was still representing the club, and from what I gather, his bosses were there? No way that behaviour was going to go unpunished...

Ch7 is very unreliable when it comes to this sort of thing. Any chance to stoke fear, hatred and controversy and they're all over it. I'm not taking anything said here as factual.

 

[Dramoth]

Probably asked him to chip in.

Have you taken up the Octo Bass?

The Octobasse? nope... but I seriously wouldn't mind doing some bass fishing one day.

Crap, and now I have an ADHD driven migrane starting.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

If it was an official club action, he would have been there with a rep from the club. So that brings the whole "overheard" argument into play. The only way it would have been overheard is if he made the comment in a very public area. Stupid really. He should have pulled the rep aside where they were private. Told them they weren't staying and left it up to the rep to make excuses while CC buggered off. It wouldn't matter what CC told the rep as that was a private conversation.

And it's an incredible coincidence that it was 'overheard', and somehow the details made it's way to the media by use of magic.

Someone who may be a little more cyncial may suggest that certain pissed off Board Members who attended the gig conveniently leaked it to the media to justify the sacking.

Anyway, I've said enough about our 'club's' handling of this. And the best part is that we only have to wait for another day or two until their next sacking.

We love sackings down at Princes Park.

 

[Dramoth]

Ch7 is very unreliable when it comes to this sort of thing. Any chance to stoke fear, hatred and controversy and they're all over it. I'm not taking anything said here as factual.

It doesn't matter if you're wrong, so long as you're first.

The mantra of modern journalism.