Change of game plan

[yebbo]

Re: Change of game plan.

back in 07 thompson came up with a way to get around the flood , do any of guys see a way to get around the defensive zones and frontal pressure sides currently use ?

IMO its a hard one isnt it. I was watching it last night thinking f$%k this, I dont wanna give alot of my time watching footy if this is where it is going.

I thought last night the type of footy Collingwood play is just too good...every time Geelong got the ball they were under threat from some black and white man, they come from everywhere.

It all comes down to how much money and the culture of the club and what they have built towards and the age of the players at any given time.

Give it 3 years now and something will change but can you imagine football being played with that intensity forever and ever cos after all every game is a must win these days, something will crack. Collngwood will get older and lose motivation.

I just hope more attacking teams come through and they evolve to get around these defensive tactics.

To answer your question, not right now, Geelong were ambushed by younger fitter teams with a mick malthouse focus and couldnt make the contests and couldnt run as much around the ground to make position like Collingwood could.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Re: Change of game plan.

IMO its a hard one isnt it. I was watching it last night thinking f$%k this, I dont wanna give alot of my time watching footy if this is where it is going.

I thought last night the type of footy Collingwood play is just too good...every time Geelong got the ball they were under threat from some black and white man, they come from everywhere.

It all comes down to how much money and the culture of the club and what they have built towards and the age of the players at any given time.

Give it 3 years now and something will change but can you imagine football being played with that intensity forever and ever cos after all every game is a must win these days, something will crack. Collngwood will get older and lose motivation.

I just hope more attacking teams come through and they evolve to get around these defensive tactics.

To answer your question, not right now, Geelong were ambushed by younger fitter teams with a mick malthouse focus and couldnt make the contests and couldnt run as much around the ground to make position like Collingwood could.

perhaps youth is the answer ?

 

[yebbo]

Re: Change of game plan.

perhaps youth is the answer ?

Yep youth must be the answer to everything, Collingwood are the perfect example, look at the guns running around who are in the norwich star award. Get games into them and give them confidence to know they are the man.

Youth is the answer cos if I was 15 years younger, I would be trying to get down the pants of everything with a heartbeat. Unfortunately its the young ones who seem to get all the good stuff , never any of that when I was a young one and its not that long ago

Wish I was a Collingwood player on 300K a year, 20, blonde surfie like chicks throwing themselves at you cos you might know Harry Obrien.

Youth is the answer

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Re: Change of game plan.

Sorry totally disagree, I coached basketball at a very high level, where I was dealing with top sportsmen and women, every team i coached was capable of many different offencive plays. It must be posible and certainly when I played football, our coach would give us quarter by quarter instructions eg. this quarter I want you to kick long to Hawkins next quarter I want you to put the ball out in front of our small forwards.
These guys are professional sportsmen they must be able to have plan A, B C &D if necessary.

OK, for starters football is not basketball in the context of what you are talking about and translating it to football. it is easier to get 5 players doing one thing than it is to get 18 players doing one thing. And a 5 man team is going to be more flexible.

And another thing, if you coached a basketball team of equivilent standing and professionalism to the Geelong football team, you must have been an Olympic coach. Is that you Lindsay?

But ok, you coached b/ball at a high level. So you got good scrappy guards, your point man is the captain, your other guard is ok at the three point line but nothing to write home about. Your power forwards are so-so. Your centre is the gun. Averages 10 rebounds and 22 ppg.

The above team is going to limit your plays. You can only do so much with that team. By the season's end you will drift comfortably into 2 or 3 plays that suit the team's strengths. A quick transition game would be desperation stuff. Your centre must be playing crap to do that. So you are limited. You might have a coaching director over you with a club philosophy too, so you might also be limited in that area too.

Larry Bird's 80's team had a distinctive playbook and style. They were very successful. Then they weren't. Happens to the best of us. I dunno, maybe you will tell me yoiu are better than Larry, and I would not have a comeback for that.

I have coached both football and basketball, and on occasion I learned the old adage of leading a horse to water, but not being able to get him to drink it. I think Bomber was saying the same post match.

 

[Turbocat]

Re: Change of game plan.

Something I didn't think I'd say today is that I'm enjoying this thread.

I think both sides of the debate have a fair element of truth.
Driving home from the game last nigh listening to KRock , shocking station , but they were wagging their tongues with Mark Neeld. Obviously quite happy but he did say a couple coach related comments that were relevant to this.

He talked about having to sell the game plan to the group , how coaching was about being a salesman convincing the group that if they fall short they were closer , that they have been practicing the game plan for years to refine it.

Ive coached , a lot of people probably have and there is one thing that always stands out to me, a coach can say jump but if the player lacks spring its not going to happen. You can train but you can't put in what God hasn't. A coach can say get quicker but if he is slow its not going to happen , etc. You can maximse with teqnique but Ive seen some pretty ugly quick guys. So all of us who have coached know or we soon learn that we must coach within the ability of the team. You just can't make a Draught Horse into a Thoroughbred.

In Basketball would we try to go inside with a small man set. No we must run it fast. If we have a Shaq , we hold the ball until he is set etc. Sure we can run different plays , maybe have a philosophical idea on offense/plays etc , I think Lindsay loves the Shuffle and he develops the side to suit it but no matter what he teaches they can only play within their ability envelope.

What defines ability. To me , its talent and the bodies that its in.

We can refine the skills as best we can but we are slaves to the talent of the team , and talent is not owned its borrowed.If your lucky you have it for a fair while but everyone looses it sooner or later. Otherwise GA Sr would still be playing.

So what to do for the Cats. How would a 2007 Cats go against the Pies last night. Probably much better , after all Melbourne worried them twice this year but the group we built was probably the best we could put together thru the draft in a sense copying the best of the time we were building it - Brisbane. We then devised a stratagem to beat the flood with this group because the game evolved towards that as our list was maturing. I feel the group probably peaked in 08 and unfortunately we missed at our best. The game plan of forward press then started to blunt ours and we really didn't have the perfect talent set to beat it. We scraped a win last year using all our guile, game smarts etc and maybe the weather helped us. No matter what we won. But the game doesn't stand still we now find ourselves in 2010 with a fantastic group that probably suit 08.

No matter what we say about game plans , telling players to do something they know strays from what they are best at or can do well is real hard sell. A team of tall centres will not want to run the floor like guards. A wet contest , a slow moving ball and we still might have beat the Pies this year but next year I doubt it. We will be another year older, and they a another year experienced.

What we must do now is get some fresh talent , the best we can into our side and club. Maybe based around where we think the game is going , maybe around where we thing we want to take it. Then train them to play it

 

[AidanNelson2009]

Re: Change of game plan.

After last night, everyone (including me) was saying the era is over, but today, after i've redeemed myself, i've thought about it and the fact is the current Geelong side is still capable of winning another premiership and can still be up there for another 2 years, all we need to do is change our style of play, the fast attacking no pressure style we currently play now just doesn't work against sides like St. Kidlda and Collingwood anymore. We can beat the Pies, Thompson just needs to work out a game plan to do so. It's not an end of an era.

 

[mwt5150]

Re: Change of game plan.

Interesting thread. Clearly other teams have gone past us with new game styles (which aren't very attractive) which we must adapt to.
One thing that strikes me every time we play Saints and Pies is during their dominant periods they station loose players behind the ball and we have nowhere to move it easily. That would suggest we should have plenty loose too, but we never seem to.
They have made strong choices regarding stalwarts (Fraser, Lockyer, O'Bree) all year, we decided to do it (ie with Mackie) too late. We looked fast and young with guys like T Hunt, Menzel and Duncan during the year.
I think a lot of our guys dont work hard enough when not in possession, and the best current team, Collingwood, work their absolute arses off.

 

[longtimecat]

Re: Change of game plan.

Having Plan A,B,C etc is not about each players ability its about the sum of the parts, how you set up. Has MT tried any real positional changes this year, when we are getting beaten badly has he switched Harry Taylor to the forward line, or put Mooney back when he hasn't been able to find the ball, has Hawkins been put in the goalsquare with Varcoe at his feet. I believe MT has gotten all he can out of this group of players , but he is not an expert on stratergy, maybe we could use a new voice.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Re: Change of game plan.

FOX sports has old games on (on Tues, I think) Over the past couple of months there has been a few of Geelong circa 2004-7. Man, were we fast!
Joel Corey was lightning fast. Kelly, Enright. Mooney was much quicker. All of them.

This is why when the youngsters like Hunt, Menzel, Duncan came in it looked exciting. We looked exciting.

Bomber's play style and system is for young quicks. It would destroy Collingwood's forward press, I think.

Remember Wojo when he looked threatening going through the Woods half back line. He did that a couple of times. Now imagine a team of Wojos. Thats what it was like when we were at our peak. Gee, they were fast.

Now many of them are big bodied men maybe suited to another era.

 

[isen river]

Re: Change of game plan.

FOX sports has old games on (on Tues, I think) Over the past couple of months there has been a few of Geelong circa 2004-7. Man, were we fast!
Joel Corey was lightning fast. Kelly, Enright. Mooney was much quicker. All of them.

This is why when the youngsters like Hunt, Menzel, Duncan came in it looked exciting. We looked exciting.

Bomber's play style and system is for young quicks. It would destroy Collingwood's forward press, I think.

Remember Wojo when he looked threatening going through the Woods half back line. He did that a couple of times. Now imagine a team of Wojos. Thats what it was like when we were at our peak. Gee, they were fast.

Now many of them are big bodied men maybe suited to another era.

Like Bomber said in the pressa sometimes your made to look slow because your being outplayed by the opposition and your chasing the ball half the time. While an injection of youth/speed is needed, we looked slow mainly because our game plan couldn't stand up to Collingwoods'. I'd still prefer good ball users/decision makers and i think we can beat Collingwood next year with a changed game style. A few will retire this year and of the guys that will stay on, the coaching staff won't be guaranteeing them games, which is how it should be. There's a lot to be excited about next year

 

[wojack]

Re: Change of game plan.

Ok so we lost to collingwood again, you would have thought that after last game they would have changed things up.
Bomber says we need to change game plan to remain competitive.. if only they did that more this year :/ http://www.gfc.com.au/geelongnews/newsarticle/tabid/3933/newsid/102807/default.aspx
I thought that after our loss against pies in round 19 we would have watched and learnt.. obviously not.

Agreed we need to change, but it's not an easy gig to chance after round 19 when you've been playing the same type of footy for 5 years. Give us a decent preseason to sort shit out and then you can get critical

 

[AidanNelson2009]

Re: Change of game plan.

Havn't Melbourne worked hard to emulate Geelong's style of play ?? you watch them bring back the fast ball movement game plan because of thier youngsters. The reason why we need to change our play is because our team is getting older.

 

[Partridge]

Re: Change of game plan.

He did say that he knew at the end of last year that they might need to change the gameplan but the players didn't buy into it.

It takes a long while to get out of habits, especially when those habits have won you so many games.

In other words, the tail wags the dog.

I hope to hell that's not true. The coach is in charge, not the players. If they don't like it point them to the door. This isn't a democracy.

 

[FoxC]

Re: Change of game plan.

In other words, the tail wags the dog.

I hope to hell that's not true. The coach is in charge, not the players. If they don't like it point them to the door. This isn't a democracy.

Agree, either that or the coach should go if he can no longer get the message through to the players.

 

[Vdubs]

Slight diversion here, but IF Saints do win the flag, which I expect, though I'm hoping Pies do, what does that make us all feel about our structures, given that:
1. We nearly beat the Saints
2. The interchange rules change will not favour Pies.

BUT, we must get youth, fitness, and speed whatever happens

 

[Hva sher a]

Re: Change of game plan.

Half the Geelong players tonight were pathetic and didnt deserve to wear that great Guernsey.

gosh you turn quickly. why can't you accept that those same players who delivered over the last few years just had a bad night and were outplayed.
pretty sad when a Collingwood fan is defending your champs

 

[AM]

Re: Change of game plan.

gosh you turn quickly. why can't you accept that those same players who delivered over the last few years just had a bad night and were outplayed.
pretty sad when a Collingwood fan is defending your champs

We also had "a bad day" against you a couple of weeks earlier. Our game plan works wonders against teams that aren't capable of applying the constant pressure you are. Bomber has recognised that by his comments in the press recently.

History shows that teams develop a group of players and a team strategy that is ahead of the pack and have a window for the ultimate success during that time. During that time other teams are unpicking the strategy and developing a superior one. That's what happened here. Your ability to apply constant pressure all over the field - especially frontal pressure; your 'box' zone set-ups; even the way you skillfully use the interchange are a few of the advances on what has been a very successful period for us.

Our present way of playing will still cope with the lesser sides but it's premierships we're all after. We're all grateful for the period of success we've had but some of us recognise the game plan that has been successful for so long runs into difficulties against the top sides. Throw in that our list is ageing and that's why some of us are suggesting changes are needed. And from public comments, so do the coaches