Only about 15 walk up starters in our best team as we are so blessed with talent from 18year olds to 32 year olds. Jack Graham like many others in his age range will need to keep improving and have a big pre season to be in that 16th-24th mix.
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ryza87
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He is a lock if fit for round 1. Why does he need a big pre season to prove himself? Obviously all players need a good pre season to be fit and ready for round 1, but he doesn't have anything to prove. He has plenty of runs on the board and if fit, is comfortably in our best 22. He is ahead of Ross, Baker, RCD, KMac etc by the length of the Fleming straight.
ryza87
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Obviously, just sounded like you knew what was going on. I'm not sure he'll miss much pre season, if any.
ryza87
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Ross is going to be a gun, perhaps as early as next year. He will be a centre square mid over Graham if he isn't already. He had 28 possessions in his 2nd game, Graham's top is 24 in his career. And he applies plenty of pressure to. Not saying he is over Graham yet in the match committee's eyes, but on 'potential'.
28 in his 3rd game? In Grahams 5th game, he tagged Slaone and kicked 3, it was only a granny and in front of 100k people. And how many young blokes his age do their shoulder early in a PF and tell the coach they're not coming off, keep sticking their head over the footy and tackling.
Just my opinion but not only is he in our best 22, he at least deserves first crack at it over the other young guys because of what he did in the prelim.
Remember when our backline consisted of Kelvin Moore, Will Thursfield, and Luke McGuane, and our forward line consisted of (aside from Jack) Ty Vickery, Aaron Edwards, and Brad Miller.
Yeah.
ryza87
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At the same age/number of games they average the same in contested pos and clearances. But Graham averages more then twice the tackles, has better eff, more score involvements and is a goal a game better. And did all that on the biggest stage, against the best teams in finals.
And since the Grand Final he has been good but not better than. I am not bagging Graham because his pressure is fantastic and he will only get better the more seasoned he gets because his game is based on continuous running and effort. But Ross will be a better player I hope, because he knows how to find the ball and seems a good user and is tough. He will be our no.1 centre square midfielder, albeit of a small sample of games, so it is not a given that he will reach that potential.
Reckon both are best 22. I keep saying i think there are going to be plenty of surprises when it comes to premieship players getting a game.
For me i think those coming in give us something the others dont, more rounded and less susseptable if you like.
Take Rance for Broad what does he bring that Broad doesnt, do i even have to ask.
Rance offers us it all.Lots of rebound, intercepts one percenters and importantly he gives us added size and height to play on oppo kpd's. he has a far better chance playing 1v1 on bigger players if the team structures do happen to get broken down.
That leaves Broad in a dilemma because he will have to add rebound delivery win a bit of ball and actually round his game out if he wants a game.
Rance will come back in and he will play tall. Broad imo is up against Grimes who plays small easily Vlastuin Pickett, Houli, Stack even Short and Baker. Does he offer better run delivery and plenty of rebound than these players.
Stack for Short imo. its simple Stack has a presence and opponents know he is about and he can defend. Has composure and he does offer us run and carry and good delivery coming out of the back half his game is way more rounded than Shorts.
Can do the same with all the others Ross brings a bigger body can run and can play inside and out.As a 19 yo lets play him on a wing. He doesnt have to be thrown into the coalface straight away. he gives way more than Ellis in so many areas ever did and he is more rounded than McIntosh. Imo a way better option than Caddy on a wing. He also gives us an inside option if needed and will win his own ball regardless.
Theres good reasons for all the replacements, for me though its mainly because they tick more boxes seem to offer more and are more rounded or simply project fwd as better options.
Have they performed on the bigger stage ? most of them no but thats because they have not had the opportunity rather than being worse options.
D-E-S projects fwd as a better defender than Baker Short and others if what he does at VFL translates into AFL.
For me i think those coming in give us something the others dont, more rounded and less susseptable if you like.
Take Rance for Broad what does he bring that Broad doesnt, do i even have to ask.
Rance offers us it all.Lots of rebound, intercepts one percenters and importantly he gives us added size and height to play on oppo kpd's. he has a far better chance playing 1v1 on bigger players if the team structures do happen to get broken down.
That leaves Broad in a dilemma because he will have to add rebound delivery win a bit of ball and actually round his game out if he wants a game.
Rance will come back in and he will play tall. Broad imo is up against Grimes who plays small easily Vlastuin Pickett, Houli, Stack even Short and Baker. Does he offer better run delivery and plenty of rebound than these players.
Stack for Short imo. its simple Stack has a presence and opponents know he is about and he can defend. Has composure and he does offer us run and carry and good delivery coming out of the back half his game is way more rounded than Shorts.
Can do the same with all the others Ross brings a bigger body can run and can play inside and out.As a 19 yo lets play him on a wing. He doesnt have to be thrown into the coalface straight away. he gives way more than Ellis in so many areas ever did and he is more rounded than McIntosh. Imo a way better option than Caddy on a wing. He also gives us an inside option if needed and will win his own ball regardless.
Theres good reasons for all the replacements, for me though its mainly because they tick more boxes seem to offer more and are more rounded or simply project fwd as better options.
Have they performed on the bigger stage ? most of them no but thats because they have not had the opportunity rather than being worse options.
D-E-S projects fwd as a better defender than Baker Short and others if what he does at VFL translates into AFL.
ryza87
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ryza87
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And I'm not bagging Ross, I agree with you that he will be a good player for us. But to this point Graham has done a hell of a lot more and he to has put his body on the line just about more than anyone. If it comes down to him and Ross, I just can't see how Ross gets the nod.
ryza87
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Jack Graham and Jack Ross AFL Stats Comparison
Jack Graham and Jack Ross AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com
ryza87
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That's ok, that's your opinion and I have mine. I'll take a player that has the runs on the board in the big games over what looks good on paper.
I'm basing mine off who had the spot in the first place and who I believe Dimma would pick first. You only need to listen to Dimma at the JDM to know how he feels about the kid. It also depends if he is fit or not.
Fact is Graham would of played in the GF and would be a 2 time premiership player if it wasn't for him doing his shoulder. And add to that Marlion Pickett was picked over Ross to fill Grahams spot.
So prior to the GF it was Graham > Ross/Pickett
He didn't do any contact work until February this year after having shoulder surgery .He played both JLT games .
It's a worry that he's had both shoulders operated on in a short time and from seemingly innocuous incidents .
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ryza87
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I referenced stats to go with my opinion and because you said Ross has more weapons and I'm not sure how you think that as at the same age/number of games Graham averages more goals, score involvements and way more tackles.
You seem a bit defensive, it's just a friendly debate haha.
Other than you thinking it looks better on paper, what has Ross done since his last game to go past Pickett and Graham?
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And Ross has him covered in just about everything else. You’ve just cherry picked three random stats where Graham has his measure and used that to form a weak argument.
What are we actually debating? You’re debating with yourself. Like I said, read over my original comment. I never said Ross is better than Graham or Pickett (I never even mentioned Pickett). I just said he will go past Graham eventually. Ross is a taller, stronger, faster version of Graham who will find more of the ball.
I love Graham, but Ross has a higher ceiling.
ryza87
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Those 3 stats stood out, the others are reasonably even each way.
I think Jack Graham with his run , could partially replace BEllis.
If last few seasons are a guide, some kid from nowhere will make the 22.
Injury and form will see some changes...
I'd like to see Balta get a set of games in Ellis' position. He's a monster with pace and could terrorise every team he comes up against. If he gets lost there, there's always a high backline position.
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