Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 21 vs. Hawthorn, MCG, Sat 05/08, 4:35pm

[Thinking Magpie]

It was an interesting game where Carlton brought their A game and found a few gaps in the way we play.

The killer for me is the clangers when there is no pressure and it is all about skill level. Our repeated clangers resulted in turn overs which not only gifted Carlton new scoring opportunities and belief, but most importantly took away our own scoring opportunities and energy levels. When you put the spot light on these issues, there will be valued players who will pay a price for repeated errors.

That is what a long season reveals and which we must try to remove from our game come finals.

Here are my thoughts:

• Adams - tried hard but repeated delivery errors cost us dearly.
• Lipinski - unable to put pressure on the Carlton ball carrier - speed is an issue.
• Cox - I have marvelled at his game and efforts, however he needs to mark the ball more often than not when he gets his two hands on it. The ruck infringement is not only knowing the rules, but who you are going to actually compete with at that point in time. Based on his arm actions, he was expecting their ruck and was actually competing with Curnow who was smarter than Cox and drew the free.
• Mihocek - is there role confusion going on in the fwd line as he was largely unsighted.
• Noble - he is a great offensive player with too many skill errors, however I thought his opponent(s) had too many opportunities. He needs to improve his efforts to pick up his or a opposition player and his tackling in a hurry.
• Field Kicking - I thought we lacked composure and kicked to situations where we were out numbered or were shanks resulting in either a turnover or loss of an offensive opportunity as it became a ball up / throw in and the game pivoted in a different direction.
• Goal Kicking - bad kicking is bad football. We gave them oxygen through our goal kicking efforts.
• The handball chains look great, however we turned them over too often especially in the middle of the ground as Carlton had worked out our running patterns. It also throws the fwds into confusion when to lead and which angle etc.

There are opportunities for several players after yesterdays game and lets see who is prepared to put their hand up...! I hope AJ, Frampton, Ginni and a few new players have blinders.

We were dominant in the first half of Q1 (goal kicking hurt us) and again in Q3. We had a lot of fwd entries for little reward.

Who comes in will depend on todays game (who plays well and if there are any injuries), Hill being fit to play and matchups against the Hawks.

We have won many games for a reason and lets regroup and look forward.

btw - from where I sat, I felt there were more Carlton supporters at the game.

 

[Axl the great]

Lipinski and Mitchell are just too slow to play both, Lipinski is slow and not a contested ball winner so I would favour dropping him

Agree, the worrying thing for me is the faith Fly has in certain players.
Yes you back your guys in but there needs to be a time where they are accountable for what they bring and that means going back to the twos and rewarding guys on fire in the VFL.
This is not happening, And my fear is it will cost us.
Fly hinted at change last night however it shouldn’t come off the back of a loss, we are not going as well as we think.
It’s a nice story to be the “comeback kings” but really good sides don’t need to mount a comeback every week, they have usually smashed teams by 3/4 time.

 

[doofdoof]

Agree, the worrying thing for me is the faith Fly has in certain players.
Yes you back your guys in but there needs to be a time where they are accountable for what they bring and that means going back to the twos and rewarding guys on fire in the VFL.
This is not happening, And my fear is it will cost us.
Fly hinted at change last night however it shouldn’t come off the back of a loss, we are not going as well as we think.
It’s a nice story to be the “comeback kings” but really good sides don’t need to mount a comeback every week, they have usually smashed teams by 3/4 time.

Great post!

 

[Jelly Bean]

Frampton can follow his opponent into the ruck

So we'd let the opposition tell us when we play Cameron in the ruck?

 

[sloth6]

Frampton
Hill

Lipinski
Cox

Frampton must play at Full Back. That allows Moore to play his intercept role better.

If Frampton doesn’t play, Moore needs to play closer to an opponent, something he refuses to do at times.

Lipinski - good user just far to bloody slow.

 

[Pies_10]

Frampton comes in for Cox and plays FB
Mcstay and he can play the second ruck for a few minutes to give Cameron a rest.
Play with just checkers and McStay as tall forwards with 3 smalls in elliot, McCreery and Hill/Ginnivan and the 6th forward a mid, Adams, lippa, de goey ect.
When McStay is in the ruck Howe could go forward to keep the two talls going or you play an extra mid and play smaller up forward.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Agree, the worrying thing for me is the faith Fly has in certain players.
Yes you back your guys in but there needs to be a time where they are accountable for what they bring and that means going back to the twos and rewarding guys on fire in the VFL.
This is not happening, And my fear is it will cost us.
Fly hinted at change last night however it shouldn’t come off the back of a loss, we are not going as well as we think.
It’s a nice story to be the “comeback kings” but really good sides don’t need to mount a comeback every week, they have usually smashed teams by 3/4 time.

Cox needs time in the VFL. His contested marking has all but vanished, mainly due to his body positioning in the contest. His timing is all out when he jumps, or he is always caught out of position to far underneath the ball.
His ruck work has fallen away too. Last night his jumping was too early at times, and he just looked really uncoordinated. It was like he went back in time to the raw kid of about 10 years ago, who had no idea about the game.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Frampton comes in for Cox and plays FB
Mcstay and he can play the second ruck for a few minutes to give Cameron a rest.
Play with just checkers and McStay as tall forwards with 3 smalls in elliot, McCreery and Hill/Ginnivan and the 6th forward a mid, Adams, lippa, de goey ect.
When McStay is in the ruck Howe could go forward to keep the two talls going or you play an extra mid and play smaller up forward.

I would let Lippa learn to play predominantly inside F50, as that medium leading forward. He seems off the pace in the middle of the ground, but if he can learn another role, then he can be best 22/23.

 

[unplugged]

If the selection committee choose to keep Lipinski in the team I can live with that. I was literally the first person in this thread to suggest he comes out but in the same thread have been cutting the team slack on the basis that they'd be flat after the Port game interstate with a 6 day break.

Lippa was in our top two for km travelled last week and again this week.

My only query is whether we need to adjust his role? Is he running too much that he just looks slow and tired when he does get it? He's slowly morphing into Trent Bianco at this rate. He's never going to be Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

36

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

, either.

We need him to be that I50 player as much as possible.

 

[Axl the great]

Cox needs time in the VFL. His contested marking has all but vanished, mainly due to his body positioning in the contest. His timing is all out when he jumps, or he is always caught out of position to far underneath the ball.
His ruck work has fallen away too. Last night his jumping was too early at times, and he just looked really uncoordinated. It was like he went back in time to the raw kid of about 10 years ago, who had no idea about the game.

Yes he looked all at sea but so did most of them.
Carlton refused to give us time on the footy and absolutely stopped that first and second clearance chain.
To have Mitchell and Adams in the side and have Carlton smash us on contest is beyond poor.
I hope examples are made, if there is such competition for spots start making the hard calls.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Yes he looked all at sea but so did most of them.
Carlton refused to give us time on the footy and absolutely stopped that first and second clearance chain.
To have Mitchell and Adams in the side and have Carlton smash us on contest is beyond poor.
I hope examples are made, if there is such competition for spots start making the hard calls.

Well l would’ve liked to have seen Macrae given a shot next weekend against the Hawks, but that can't happen now!!

 

[ThePhantom777]

B: Noble Frampton Quaynor
HB: Maynard Moore Murphy
C: Sidebottom DeGoey Jaicos
HF: Howe McStay McCreery
F: Hill Mihocek Elliott
Foll: Cameron Pendlebury Crisp
I/C: WHE Adams Naicos Markov
Sub: Ginnivan
Emergencies: Mitchell AJ Lipinski

Out: Cox Lipinski Mitchell
In: Frampton Hill Ginnivan

Cameron chop out from McStay or Frampton.

Naicos to HB let him run around doing what he wants.

Frampton to FB to let Moore play intercept role.

Ginni to sub in for the last quarter and bag 3 when everyone else slows down.

Howe to HF to compete for MOTY with Jamie.

Hill, Elliott, McCreery to compete for who can get most tackles inside 50.

Adams to midfield, Mitchell out for a rest.

 

[Prexm]

From 23 at a minimum in Johnson or Frampton out Cox. In Hill out WHE. See how the VFL game goes today before finalising.

 

[barrackers]

Howe’s forward role looked similar to what we’ve seen with Johnson. Clearly we missed that role last night.

Do we recall Johnson or go again with Howe. McStay went into defence and ruck to allow the Howe move. I’m curious to see how we’d go with Frampton as a defender/ruck and Howe forward. It would also allow us to see how Howe goes forward when the opposition has some time to plan for it.

 

[manicpie]

B: Noble Frampton Quaynor
HB:Maynard Moore Murphy
C: Sidebottom DeGoey Jaicos
HF: Howe McStay McCreery
F: Hill Mihocek Elliott
Foll: Cameron Pendlebury Crisp
I/C: WHE Adams Naicos Markov
Sub: Ginnivan
Emergencies: Mitchell AJ Lipinski

Out: Cox Lipinski Mitchell
In: Frampton Hill Ginnivan

Cameron chop out from McStay or Frampton.

Naicos to HB let him run around doing what he wants.

Frampton to FB to let Moore play intercept role.

Ginni to sub in for the last quarter and bag 3 when everyone else slows down.

Howe to HF to compete for MOTY with Jamie.

Hill, Elliott, McCreery to compete for who can get most tackles inside 50.

Adams to midfield, Mitchell out for a rest.

This has to be the side next week

 

[stormskye]

Please tip the hawks Dave

 

[domus]

It was an interesting game where Carlton brought their A game and found a few gaps in the way we play.

The killer for me is the clangers when there is no pressure and it is all about skill level. Our repeated clangers resulted in turn overs which not only gifted Carlton new scoring opportunities and belief, but most importantly took away our own scoring opportunities and energy levels. When you put the spot light on these issues, there will be valued players who will pay a price for repeated errors.

That is what a long season reveals and which we must try to remove from our game come finals.

Here are my thoughts:

• Adams - tried hard but repeated delivery errors cost us dearly.
• Lipinski - unable to put pressure on the Carlton ball carrier - speed is an issue.
• Cox - I have marvelled at his game and efforts, however he needs to mark the ball more often than not when he gets his two hands on it. The ruck infringement is not only knowing the rules, but who you are going to actually compete with at that point in time. Based on his arm actions, he was expecting their ruck and was actually competing with Curnow who was smarter than Cox and drew the free.
• Mihocek - is there role confusion going on in the fwd line as he was largely unsighted.
• Noble - he is a great offensive player with too many skill errors, however I thought his opponent(s) had too many opportunities. He needs to improve his efforts to pick up his or a opposition player and his tackling in a hurry.
• Field Kicking - I thought we lacked composure and kicked to situations where we were out numbered or were shanks resulting in either a turnover or loss of an offensive opportunity as it became a ball up / throw in and the game pivoted in a different direction.
• Goal Kicking - bad kicking is bad football. We gave them oxygen through our goal kicking efforts.
• The handball chains look great, however we turned them over too often especially in the middle of the ground as Carlton had worked out our running patterns. It also throws the fwds into confusion when to lead and which angle etc.

There are opportunities for several players after yesterdays game and lets see who is prepared to put their hand up...! I hope AJ, Frampton, Ginni and a few new players have blinders.

We were dominant in the first half of Q1 (goal kicking hurt us) and again in Q3. We had a lot of fwd entries for little reward.

Who comes in will depend on todays game (who plays well and if there are any injuries), Hill being fit to play and matchups against the Hawks.

We have won many games for a reason and lets regroup and look forward.

btw - from where I sat, I felt there were more Carlton supporters at the game.

I commented on the lack of Carlton fans to my son early in the game. Funny how two people can have such polar opposite views of the same crowd.

 

[nahnah]

AJ vs Mihocek is another one to look at with Mihocek in awful form

 

[No SPIN]

We're not going to play Howe as a permanent forward. It was just a late positional change that worked because Carlton didn't expect it. Exact same thing happened with Moore a year or two ago against Brisbane or West Coast

Not sure how you can make the comparison- Howe kicked 3 goals.
Howe is replaceable in the backline Moore is not.

 

[frizzle]

Who will be the rocket surgeon that proposes dropping Markov this week?

What's a rocket surgeon?

 

[No SPIN]

There’s probably 4 spots or so that are up for grabs ….
Things are really heating up.

Which 4?

 

[Kes1984]

What's a rocket surgeon?

Similar to a brain scientist I hear

 

[No SPIN]

We lack star power in the forward line and have for years. It's nights like this when you are reminded of this fact. Most contenders have a gun or two. We have a group of good, honest workhorses.

You wouldn’t be saying this if we kicked straight.
And Top, 16-3 and 130+ % suggests kicking goal isn’t an issue.

 

[Chameleon75]

What's a rocket surgeon?

a surgeon that uses rockets

 

[Mollythedolly]

John Noble and Oleg Markov AFL Stats Comparison

Don’t think noble is in any danger to be dropped for Markov.

I don't think either of them is in danger of being omitted. I just think Noble is more at risk at the moment. Their form lines are heading in opposite directions. I think you also need to look at how they're playing and the impact they're having rather than rely on stats. Noble was credited with 22 disposals last night, 18 effective, but 2x clangers and 6x turnovers (not sure how that equates to 18 effective) don't even come close to describing how poor his 18 effective disposals were. And that's not even looking at how poor he was defensively.